Israel's 10 year racist law anniversary

[Guest American Woman]

I'm an advocate of truth and justice.

With Hamas as your poster boy?

[DogOnPorch]

With Hamas as your poster boy?

Keep in mind that old Stan Freberg radio show...folks waste their entire lives trying to eliminate Israel. It was rather sobering to hear that the language of 1960 and 2013 was so similar. And that was before "Palestinians" were invented.

[Hudson Jones]

With Hamas as your poster boy?

You're getting pretty desperate with your comments. It sounds like the frustration of someone who is not able to explain away a racist state and their reason for advocating a racist state.

You and BC2004 have tried to draw a parallel between Israel's many racist policies to policies in Canada and U.S., but you have failed miserably. This explains your frustration.

I guess now it's time for you to tell us more about racist Canadian policies from 100 years ago or racist policies of Arab countries to try to excuse Israel's racist policies!

"But Israel is "just like" Canada was...... 100 years ago!

But Israel is "just like" Arab states who may have racist policies!

Yeah!"

Edited July 9, 2013 by Hudson Jones

[Guest American Woman]

You're getting pretty desperate with your comments. It sounds like the frustration of someone who is not able to explain away a racist state and their reason for advocating a racist state.

Perhaps someone with an agenda and no actual comeback might hope it sounds like that, but I'm guessing it doesn't. Others, I'm sure, see it for what it is - the absurdity of selectively criticizing Israel while totally, uncritically backing Palestine, which includes the Hamas government - while claiming to be an "advocate of truth and justice." Seriously. How does Hamas fit into that? How does discrimination against women fit into that?

You and BC2004 have tried to draw a parallel between Israel's many racist policies to policies in Canada and U.S., but you have failed miserably. This explains your frustration.

Since I've clearly said that I am not trying to draw a parallel, since I have clearly stated that there doesn't have to be a parallel, one has to wonder how you came to such a conclusion. In fact, it sounds as if "you are getting pretty desperate with your comments."

I guess now it's time for you to tell us more about racist Canadian policies from 100 years ago or racist policies of Arab countries to try to excuse Israel's racist policies!

I'm not trying to "excuse" anything. I'm simply not a hypocrite criticizing one country non-stop while ignoring the racism/discrimination in the other.

"But Israel is "just like" Canada was...... 100 years ago!

But Israel is "just like" Arab states who may have racist policies!

Arab states (and Palestine) "MAY" have racist policies?? Do you question whether they have "discriminatory" policies, too?

[Guest American Woman]

Keep in mind that old Stan Freberg radio show...folks waste their entire lives trying to eliminate Israel. It was rather sobering to hear that the language of 1960 and 2013 was so similar. And that was before "Palestinians" were invented.

It's simply a matter of "being on the side of truth and justice," eh? Unbelievable.

[DogOnPorch]

It's simply a matter of "being on the side of truth and justice," eh? Unbelievable.

I've made myself quite clear that the Palestinian Cause is a still burning ember of WW2 that just will not go away. Old Nazis and their dreams of owning their own country. I wonder if those same Palestinian supporters would have supported Goering or Himmler if they wanted their own country post WW2?

Himmler greets his cohort, the Mufti al-Husseini, circa 1943.

[bush_cheney2004]

"But Israel is "just like" Canada was...... 100 years ago!

Not 100 years ago.....YESTERDAY...TODAY....and...TOMORROW. You are clearly in denial.

[Hudson Jones]

Not 100 years ago.....YESTERDAY...TODAY....and...TOMORROW. You are clearly in denial.

Talk to me when you have specific examples, otherwise it's just more BC2004 hot air.

[bush_cheney2004]

Talk to me when you have specific examples, otherwise it's just more BC2004 hot air.

No, I'd rather spend more time and money on Israel. Terrorist sympathizers don't deserve more examples.

[Hudson Jones]

Perhaps someone with an agenda and no actual comeback might hope it sounds like that, but I'm guessing it doesn't. Others, I'm sure, see it for what it is - the absurdity of selectively criticizing Israel while totally, uncritically backing Palestine, which includes the Hamas government - while claiming to be an "advocate of truth and justice." Seriously. How does Hamas fit into that? How does discrimination against women fit into that?

Since I've clearly said that I am not trying to draw a parallel, since I have clearly stated that there doesn't have to be a parallel, one has to wonder how you came to such a conclusion. In fact, it sounds as if "you are getting pretty desperate with your comments."

I'm not trying to "excuse" anything. I'm simply not a hypocrite criticizing one country non-stop while ignoring the racism/discrimination in the other.

Arab states (and Palestine) "MAY" have racist policies?? Do you question whether they have "discriminatory" policies, too?

So you failed again to give any examples of Canada or United States' racist policies.

Our governments and pretty much the majority of people do not support Hamas or any of their policies that violate human rights. Of course, neither do I, as I have stated many times before.

On the contrary, our governments still support Israel, despite their many racist policies both inside Israel and in the occupied territories against the Palestinians. Policies that would never be accepted in Canada against another group of people. Some people here in the West, more so in the United States, also support Israel, despite their policies. The reason for their support is usually because of the superficial understanding of the situation which is due to government officials who have been bought out by lobby groups and also due to the lazy, sometimes self-censoring mainstream media. Then you have the hardcore Zionists such as you, who, despite the clear facts on the ground (Like Israel's 50+ racist policies), still try to deny, twist and take attention from the obvious injustices that Israel practices.

Edited July 9, 2013 by Hudson Jones

[Guest American Woman]

....neither do I, as I have stated many times before.

Words are cheap. Actions speak louder than words. Capice? Edited July 9, 2013 by American Woman

[Hudson Jones]

Words are cheap. Actions speak louder than words. Capice?

Majority of the people in the West, including our governments condemn Hamas' violations - which totally dwarf against Israel's violations of human rights. The big problem here is that some, including our governments do not condemn and in fact, encourage Israel's many violations of human rights, including their actions against a group of their own citizens.

And, I like to quote myself:

Then you have the hardcore Zionists such as you, who, despite the clear facts on the ground (Like Israel's 50+ racist policies), still try to deny, twist and take attention from the obvious injustices that Israel practices.

[Guest American Woman]

Majority of the people in the West, including our governments condemn Hamas' violations - which totally dwarf against Israel's violations of human rights. The big problem here is that some, including our governments do not condemn and in fact, encourage Israel's many violations of human rights, including their actions against a group of their own citizens.

And, I like to quote myself:

Then you have the hardcore Zionists such as you, who, despite the clear facts on the ground (Like Israel's 50+ racist policies), still try to deny, twist and take attention from the obvious injustices that Israel practices.

While the majority of people in the west condemn Hamas' violations, you claim, in your support of Palestine, to be "on the side of truth and justice." Talk about a contradictory statement. Furthermore, Hamas was voted in by the Palestinians. You support a nation whose government you proclaim to condemn - while going on and on about how racist and discriminatory Israel is - and whenever I point out Palestine's faults in that very area, you ignore it. Thread after thread condemning Israel - not one condemning anything about Palestine.

I don't know what you hope to accomplish here, but I'll tell you this much - your one-sided criticism, along with your calling anyone who doesn't jump on your bandwagon a "hardcore Zionist," isn't doing the Palestinian cause any good at all. Do you think your going to change my mind with your accusations? Am I supposed to be so embarrassed or ashamed by your calling me a "hard core Zionist" that I'm supposed to feel compelled to soften my stance? I truly don't know what you are trying to accomplish, but I'm quite sure it's not happening.

[Hudson Jones]

Do you think your going to change my mind with your accusations? Am I supposed to be so embarrassed or ashamed by your calling me a "hard core Zionist" that I'm supposed to feel compelled to soften my stance? I truly don't know what you are trying to accomplish, but I'm quite sure it's not happening.

I'm not here to change your mind. I'm only here to fight for justice and debunk the misinformation and call out those who fail to back up any of their claims and dismiss facts because it does not coincide with the imaginary world they want to create.

What Hamas does in the Gaza has nothing to do the 50+ racist laws Israel has against a group of people.

However insignificant compared to Israel's violations, what Hamas does is condemned by me, you and the West. Israel's human rights violations, however, are not condemned and are even encouraged by our governments and the Zionists.

Again, the facts show that Israel, a supposed democracy, has 50+ racist laws against the Palestinians.

[Rue]

What you have now been part of is the pathetic manipulative disinformation exercise known as deflection.

When the Hudson Jones site had no idea how to respond, it simply switched topics and thus suddenly the attempt

to switch focus to Canada or the US being racist.

This site never finishes what it starts. It makes accusations, then switches topics when debated as it has no idea how to respond.

The other technique this side does is to repeat unsubstantiated allegations repeatedly hoping if it repeats them

often enough, you the audience will accept them as a given and stop debating these allegations.

So for example this site, repeatedly has referred to 50 racist laws in Palestine but has never provided them.

There is a reason for that. No such laws exist. This site reproduces another site that makes references to in factsecurity regulations that apply to all Palestinians whether they are Christian, Jewish or Muslim or anything else, if in the areas managed by the IDF. The areas controlled by the Palestinian Authority are in fact just as discriminatory because they exclude Jews from being able to live in those areas. It is a two way street on the West Bank.

Of course H Jones script writers have never been there. They think if they read web sites that can pass off as understanding what is going on in the West Bank.

They also have no clue as to the actual laws of Israel and how they are applied.

The actual land on the West Bank has never been part of a sovereign nation so it can not be legally occupied. The UN has passed numerous condemnations of Israel and has used the word occupation in its condemnations but these condemnations mean nothing in law absolutely nothing. The UN condemnations are not and have never been legally binding.

In law, when land has never been part of a sovereign nation and then seized by another nation, it can't be occupied.

It is in fact disputed.

The West Bank is the remaining land under dispute between Israel and the Arab world as to what the mandate referred to when it was originally created to implement two states, one Muslim and one Jewish to live side by side.

To this day, the collective Arab world as expressed through its Arab union does not recognize a Jewish state and has stated it never will. This is why for example Syria and Iraq are still technically in a declared state of war with Israel.

Of the Arab League nations that originally launched a war in the Middle East to force Jews out of what is now Israel, only Jordan and Egypt undid their declarations of war. No other Arab League nation has.

The world of denial the Hudson Jones web site comes from does not and will never recognize a Jewish state. Its agenda is quite simple-Muslims can have sharia law states, but Jews can not have a Jewish state. Sharia law states who create an apartheid legal system that defines non Muslims as inferiors and places them in ghettoes and does not recognize them as equals and codifies the discrimination in its laws is acceptable-but Israel because it calls itself a Jewish state is not.

Not once has this site in its ruse to present Israel as racist ever admitted to the fact that Muslims and Christians in Israel have the same legal rights as Jews and that is because Zionism as an ideology believes the state protects Jews but it does not convert or impose its religion on non Jews.

In Sharia law nations, if you do not convert to Islam you are referred to as an infidel, someone who has false beliefs and not worthy of legal equality.

Christian nations not too long ago across Europe were no different than the Sharia Muslim nations of today. They too did not separate religion from state and believed one must be converted to Christianity or they were unworthy of

value.

Since Jewish and Christian civilizations have been around much longer, both of our societies have evolved past the

fundamental stage Muslims in these Sharia law nations are now at.

However trying to reason with a Hudson Jones web site full of devout Muslims parroting political scripts given to them to present on this forum is no different then trying to explain to the perverted priests and Cardinals of the past that women were not witches or explaining to puritanical Protestants that people who were Catholic were not all anti Christs.

The Hudson Jones script lives in a world of absolutes and blacks and whites. There are no greys. There are no

nuances. Thus all arguments are reduced to 'right" and "wrong" and of course only the H Jones words are the true or right ones.

Its classic Muslim fundamentalism transferred into pseuto political broadcasts but the tell tale signs of fundamentalist extremism are never too far from the surface neither is the lack of respect for views other than its own.

The H Jones site will refer to anyone that disagrees with it as a Zionist because that is the technique it must use-you are for or you are against. You can only be black or white. You can't possibly believe both Jews and Palestinians have the right to live side by side in peace.

You can not abide by the concept that there is anything but a Muslim Sharia world. If Israel existed the world would no longer be just black and white (Muslim, non Muslim) it would take on various shades of grey since a Jewish state living peacefully with an Arab one or more than one Arab state would begin to exchange ideas and vice versa causing variations to the fundamentalist script.

What this H Jones site fears the most is that someone who supports Israel like me, could be or is in fact respected by

Palestinians and vice versa. The idea we could get along and respect each other petrifies it and causes it to broadcast its hate messages across the world in various forums.

The fact is though the next generations are transcending all organized religions equally and coming to see each other

as bleeding the same colour blood and aspiring to struggle to achieve the same things in life, no matter how hard the H Jones network of fundamentalist Islam tries to cling to its antiquated hateful rhetoric and keep people cowering and fearful and afraid to question it.

H Jones is a site full of little piss pots pissing their pants as Syria, Egypt, the entire Muslim world emerges and begins to throw down the shackles of fundamentalist Muslim extremism.

One day very soon, H Jones is gonna blow its bladder let alone sphincter muscle for good when Israelis and Palestinians, Muslims, Jews and Christians embrace each other and move onto a more evolved world of tolerance for one another.

You hear that-its the silence of the H Jones web site recoiling at moi.

Psst here I am "Hudson Jones".

H Jones didn't they tell you, never tread on a snake.

You know where to find me.

Hah.

Edited July 10, 2013 by Rue

[Guest American Woman]

I'm not here to change your mind.

Oh, but in some ways you actually have - just not in the way you'd like.

I'm only here to fight for justice

Justice, apparently, is in the eye of the beholder.

and debunk the misinformation and call out those who fail to back up any of their claims and dismiss facts because it does not coincide with the imaginary world they want to create.

So you're here to talk to yourself?

What Hamas does in the Gaza has nothing to do the 50+ racist laws Israel has against a group of people.

It has everything to do with it, and I'm guessing that's why you are trying so hard to steer the discussion away from it.

However insignificant compared to Israel's violations, what Hamas does is condemned by me, you and the West. Israel's human rights violations, however, are not condemned and are even encouraged by our governments and the Zionists.

Presenting Hamas' human rights violations as "insignificant" compared to Israel, presenting the racism/discrimination in Palestine as "insignificant" compared to in Israel, is a big reason why discussion is impossible, and a big reason, I believe, that things don't change. It's also a big reason why Israel feels the need to do what it needs to do, IMO; condemnation of Hamas from those who truly do condemn them doesn't change having to live with their actions and consequences.

Honestly, the more I see this one-sided, totally biased type of condemnation of Israel, the more I understand why Israel does some of the things it does; why it feels the need. Why there is the need.

Again, the facts show that Israel, a supposed democracy, has 50+ racist laws against the Palestinians.

The facts show Hamas' human rights violations for what they are; and the facts show the racism and discrimination that exists within Palestine/the Middle East/Muslim nations. Edited July 10, 2013 by American Woman

[DogOnPorch]

lol...HJ puts any opinion he feels unable to 'dismiss' on ignore.

[Hudson Jones]

I've read 3 of your posts in this thread and in each one, you have repeated mistakes and misinformation:

#1 - Your ridiculous comments about Benny Morris not being a historian

#2 - Your other ridiculous statement that Israel pays back the welfare money it receives every year with interest

#3 - Your comment below:

So for example this site, repeatedly has referred to 50 racist laws in Palestine but has never provided them.

I have posted the link a few times, but it looks like you're too busy trying to express your bewildered and incoherent thoughts that you fail to actually read.

Here are some of the laws. The rest can be found in the link I have already provided.

Title Theme Enacted Civil Wrongs Law - Amendment No. 8 (Liability of the State) 1967 Occupied Territories 2012 Criminal Procedure Law - Interrogating Suspects - Amendment No. 6 Criminal Law and Procedures 2012 Income Tax Ordinance - Amendment No. 191 1967 Occupied Territories 2012 Israeli Prisons Ordinance Amendment No. 43 - Prisoner-Attorney Meet... Criminal Law and Procedures 2012 Israeli Prisons Ordinance - Amendment No. 40 (Meetings with Lawyers) Criminal Law and Procedures 2011 "Anti-Boycott Law" - Prevention of Damage to the State of Israel th... Civil and Political Rights 2011 Foreign Property Ownership - Israel Lands Law (Amendment No. 3) Land and Planning Rights 2011 "Admissions Committees Law" - Cooperative Societies Ordinance - Ame... Land and Planning Rights 2011 Citizenship Law - Amendment No. 10 Citizenship 2011 "Nakba Law" - Amendment No. 40 to the Budgets Foundations Law Civil and Political Rights 2011

I hope you take this time to learn a little about Israel's 50+ racist and discriminatory laws.

[DogOnPorch]

lol...some of those are pretty petty and Adalah has a well known agenda. For example...the first one...Amend. #8...I wouldn't allow enemy states to seek compensation from Canada, either. How that becomes 'racist' should be interesting to see. As well, if an Israeli soldier gets injured by a rock throwing minor while on duty...who gets sued then?

[bleeding heart]

Time to pack up and go home and get a new script. "Hudson Jones"? I knew a Rock Hudson once. Used to do movies with this woman called Doris Day. He tried to play it straight but it just didn't work out. All those parties with Wally Cox, Liberace and Burt Reynolds screwed things up.

I bet you know who Liberace was.

Because gay people are morally suspect...eh Rue?

[Rue]

Because gay people are morally suspect...eh Rue?

No. That is you projecting your own insecurity. The analogy that soared over your head was the false identity and

living a phony double life. His being gay does not make him immoral. His denying his being gay when everyone knew,

was what made him a laughing stock and the analogy here is to come on this forum posing as a purveyor of truth and justice using the name "Hudson Jones" is as laughable. Just as Liberace told people he was straight, this H Jones

web site poses as if it is a reasonable purveyor and believer in democracy.

Now if that is still not clear write back and I can explain it some more.

Your attempting to suggest I am anti gay is just dead wrong. What I am criticizing are people who pose as something they are clearly not and while we are at it, yah I personally find people who pretend to be straight and are really gay questionable in character the same way I find it questionable someone would try hide his being a Jew or a Muslim or

hide his or their true identity.

Can I get any clearer?

Do you see me coming on this forum using the name John Smith?

Here let me spell it out, call me Finkleberg, Finklestein, Shapiro, Cohen, Zionstein.

I don't hide behind an anglo sounding name. Capiche?

[Rue]

I've read 3 of your posts in this thread and in each one, you have repeated mistakes and misinformation:

#1 - Your ridiculous comments about Benny Morris not being a historian

#2 - Your other ridiculous statement that Israel pays back the welfare money it receives every year with interest

#3 - Your comment below:

I have posted the link a few times, but it looks like you're too busy trying to express your bewildered and incoherent thoughts that you fail to actually read.

Here are some of the laws. The rest can be found in the link I have already provided.

Title Theme Enacted Civil Wrongs Law - Amendment No. 8 (Liability of the State) 1967 Occupied Territories 2012 Criminal Procedure Law - Interrogating Suspects - Amendment No. 6 Criminal Law and Procedures 2012 Income Tax Ordinance - Amendment No. 191 1967 Occupied Territories 2012 Israeli Prisons Ordinance Amendment No. 43 - Prisoner-Attorney Meet... Criminal Law and Procedures 2012 Israeli Prisons Ordinance - Amendment No. 40 (Meetings with Lawyers) Criminal Law and Procedures 2011 "Anti-Boycott Law" - Prevention of Damage to the State of Israel th... Civil and Political Rights 2011 Foreign Property Ownership - Israel Lands Law (Amendment No. 3) Land and Planning Rights 2011 "Admissions Committees Law" - Cooperative Societies Ordinance - Ame... Land and Planning Rights 2011 Citizenship Law - Amendment No. 10 Citizenship 2011 "Nakba Law" - Amendment No. 40 to the Budgets Foundations Law Civil and Political Rights 2011

I hope you take this time to learn a little about Israel's 50+ racist and discriminatory laws.

1.Benny Morris is not an historian. The fact you can not understand that is tell-tale. What he does is to take political events from the past, remove them from their time line of actual sequential cause and effect events, and gives them a new political interpretation. That is not what historians do.

Historians merely report what happened. What Benny Morris did was to become a political editorialist. There is a huge difference. Historians have no political agenda. A true historian remains politically neutral and when they speculate on motives of politicians, they make that clear.

I am going to send another post on Benny Morris. What I am going to tell you is that to pose him as an historian when he himself admits he is not one, is absurd. More to the point you refer to someone who renounced much of what you quote from him as inaccurate and was then rejected by the people you think you now support. If you are going to repeat someone you think presents your time line at least have the intellectual discipline to find someone who agrees with you and did not renounce what you repeat.

Israel's paying back its loans with interest is public domain. Again you can simply come on this web site and deny that fact but the amount of payments and interest is public domain and reported by the US government. Your attempt to simply repeat a false fact as if it is truth won't magically turn it true. You have not responded to your false claim that Israel receives welfare. When you were responded to with the actual numbers and explanation of the reciprocal financial benefits to the US that contradict the payments as being one sided or as you disparage them as, you did not respond and still do not.

You have zero credibility because while you try stereotype the US-Israel military alliance as welfare, you of course are silent on all the benefits the US sends the Palestinian Authority, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and on and on in the Middle East. You only select out its aid for Israel. No one else who receives US financial aid in the Middle East including Palestinians are referred to as welfare recipients and yet not one of those recipients, exchanges the information and knowledge Israel does to the US, in return for that aid. Why are you silent on that?

How do you come on this forum with such glaring inconsistency and selectivity and then try pass yourself off as anything credible? Your attempt to say you only will criticize Israel and no one else, precisely renders you a shrill and one totally lacking in credibility.

Finally you proved my point as to the alleged laws you think you quote. You again show your ignorance and your inability to understand the difference between legislation, statutory law, case law, regulatory law, and ordinances issued by military administration. You just throw them all in one category and assume they are all the same precisely because you do not understand how law works and what makes a law nor do you realize half of what you quoted are not in fact Israeli domestic laws that apply to Israeli Arabs. Your original contention was Israel was racist against Israeli non Jews. Then you switched saying that racism is against non Israeli citizens simply because they are Palestinian.

When pointed out "Palestinian" is not a race designation but a perceived national status you remained silent.

Now you try pass off security ordinances designed to manage non Israeli citizens as racist when they in fact if anything

deal with non Israeli citizens.

You quote an Israeli legal site verbatum and try pass yourself off as an expert on Israeli law because you quote this web site's head line. You make no effort to do anything but pass on the headline. You have no clue what the laws are and

how they are applied but assume if this web site says they are discriminatory, that gives you the platform to come on this forum and lecture everyone as if you are an Israeli legal expert. What a laugh.

I know people in the organization you quote. They are Israeli lawyers. They are Israeli Zionists defending Israeli Arabs and Israeli Christians and Israeli Jews and Palestinians.

The irony is you quote an organization that rejects everything you stand for and would reject any attempt by you to try use them as a pretense to justify your true agenda which was to come on this forum and incite violence and send young Muslim Canadians a not so veiled message to go and destroy Israel.

You came on this form and asked people to destroy Israel. You called for the destruction of Israel and you have the

audacity to now quote a legal web site whose lawyers believe in law and order not terrorism as you do....what a joke.

Oh I have your no. H-Jones. You can try remove from its actual context the legal criticisms being fought by this organization but I and most of the readers of your propaganda know, you could care less about Palestinians or Israelis they are both just excuses to advance your agenda.

Now come out once and for all and admit you support Muslim fundamentalist beliefs and believe in a holy war to remove Israel and replace it and Jordan with a Sharia law state.

Have the decency to admit what your agenda is or do you want to keep playing Hudson Jones, Canadian, with me.

cont. next post

[bleeding heart]

No. That is you projecting your own insecurity.

And that is a trite and meaningless internet forum cliché meaning "I got nothing."

The analogy that soared over your head was the false identity and

living a phony double life. His being gay does not make him immoral. His denying his being gay when everyone knew,

was what made him a laughing stock and the analogy here is to come on this forum posing as a purveyor of truth and justice using the name "Hudson Jones" is as laughable. Just as Liberace told people he was straight, this H Jones

web site poses as if it is a reasonable purveyor and believer in democracy.

First of all, that wins a prize for most inane "analogy"; no small feat, given the competition. "Hudson Jones" has no more of a "false identity" and double life than the overwhelming majority of posters...here and elsewhere.

Second, people hiding or denying their homosexuality was a rational, perfectly understandable move...given the obscene bigotry towards gay people.

Moot anyway, because all you were actually doing was insinuating that someone is gay...because you perceive it as an insult.

[bleeding heart]

1.Benny Morris is not an historian. The fact you can not understand that is tell-tale. What he does is to take political events from the past, remove them from their time line of actual sequential cause and effect events, and gives them a new political interpretation. That is not what historians do.

Historians merely report what happened. What Benny Morris did was to become a political editorialist. There is a huge difference. Historians have no political agenda. A true historian remains politically neutral and when they speculate on motives of politicians, they make that clear.

I am going to send another post on Benny Morris. What I am going to tell you is that to pose him as an historian when he himself admits he is not one, is absurd.

Benny Morris (Hebrew: בני מוריס; born 8 December 1948^[1]) is an Israeli professor of History in the Middle East Studies department of Ben-Gurion University of the Negev in the city of Be'er Sheva, Israel. He is a key member of the group of Israeli historians known as the "New Historians," a term Morris coined to describe himself and historians Avi Shlaim and Ilan Pappe.^[[

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benny_Morris

So here's where the Professor of History calls himself an "historian."

Can you cite where he does not?

Edited July 11, 2013 by bleeding heart

[Rue]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benny_Morris

To get an idea of just how uninformed the H Jones site is off benny Morris just go to the above site.

There is an easy to understand analysis of why what Benny Morris has done is called "new History" but history.

Karsh clearly explains the errors in analysis that Morris has made that remove him from being able to refer to himself academically as an actual historian. What he is, is in fact a political editorialist. There is a huge difference.

More importantly H Jones has never read all of Benny Morris' works for if he did he would never quote him. At one point

Morris wrote an essay criticizing the policies of David Ben Gurion. Anti semitic hate sites suddenly embraced Morris as as someone to quote against Israel sinces he teaches at University of Tel Aviv.

He made an ideal source to quote. Look they said, an Israeli Zionist who renounced Zionism.

Problem is disinformation sites like H Jones do not read what they quote. They simply pass on scripts from other propaganda sites.

If this "H Jones" had actually read the full body or Morris' writings they would see a thesis far different than the one

H Jones tries to infer, H jones again engages in a classic exercise of disinformation. Remove a selected quote from someone that appears to agree with your argument, and then ignore the rest that do not.

Its dishonest intellectually to quote someone like Morris without going further to point out what his real views are.

H Jones won't because Morris categorically and absolutely has rejected the hate engaged in by H Jones and the attempts by such sites to delegitimize the right of Jews to have their own state.

Now you can al go and read for yourselves about the laws of Israel. Unlike Muslim Sharia law states, it is open and transparent.

Does it have short-comings? Of course. When you are a Jewish state surrounded by people who want you to cease to exist as a Jewish state your no.1 legal priority is state security and in that implementation of state security laws, all citizens not just Israeli Arabs fall under certain rigid security laws.

In regards to religious laws, the irony of trying to define who is a Jew continues. The current Rabbinical courts would not consider me a Reform Jew, Jewish enough and would not recognize my marriage or Jewish status so to say they discriminate against just non Jews is just utterly wrong.

In fact Jews of Israel come in all races. Mizrahi or Arab Jews or Jews from Africa, have experienced assimilation issues and they are sometimes referred to as racist in that the cultural intolerance shown to them by Russian Jews is simplified as lighter skinned Jews versus darker skinned ones. Of course it is not the skin but the cultures clashing.

Russian Jews no more would feel comfortable with me if I moved to Israel then they would an Ethiopian Jew.Jews come from many cultures which clash.

Mizrahi or Arab nation originated Jews have more culturally in common with Israeli Arab Jews and so would experience the same discomforts. Its not based on skin colour but culture.

No Israel is not perfect. Whenever you have a melting pot of a nation where its citizens come from many cultures those cultures clash. It happens in all countries in the world.

What makes H Jones a remarkably two faced web site is it will reproduce Israeli internal social conflicts as racist but

remain silent to the fact the very exact same phenomena arises in Sharia Muslim or Christian nations or any other nation.

On the West Bank itself, Palestinians are divided into many sects who discriminate against each other based on religion, political views, country of origin.

One only need loo at every other nation in the Middle East to see the state of civil war between Shiite and Sunni Muslims or the violence committed by Shiite or Sunni Muslims against Amidyah or Ismaili Muslims or non Muslims.

To remove Israel from outside its context of being created to protect Jews precisely from this Muslim intolerance and

respond directly to in fact Muslim apartheid is at the crux of the lack of credibility in the H Jones propaganda presentations.

In the Muslim world today not just in the Middle East, racism is alive and well. Black Africans are imported to the wealthy Arab states and wealthy Muslims of Indonesia and the Philippines or Pakistan to serve as slave labour.

The genocide of black Christians by lighter skinned Sudanese Muslims is something H Jones can not and will not admit.

His script does not allow him to acknowledge the discrimination rampant in the very people he claims Israel victimizes.

The Muslim world Israel was born within has always been and appears destined to always be a discriminatory one based on religion.

In an ideal world there should be separation of religion from state.

In the real world, Jews created a Jewish state in direct response to extermination and never ending existential threat from Christian and Muslim states.

What H Jones can not and will not acknowledge is that Israel would not exist had Christian states not been anti-Semitic and had Islamic states not been the same. There would have been no need for Jews to create a state institution to protect itself from existential threat.

What H Jones will not and can not acknowledge is Israel was created as a direct response to discrimination.

That H Jones will not do. It will demand Palestinians have the exact rights Jews now have, but never acknowledge any Jew has the right to their own nation while in the next breath advocate for Muslim States or a Palestinian state.

The absurdity of his argument is that he accuses all of us Jews who choose to advocate a collective identity through a state as racist but then calls on the very same exercise for Palestinians.

In the world of H Jones propaganda and hatred there is a disconnect from what they demand for themselves and what they refuse others.

In the world of H Jones, you are either part of the Muslim H Jones world, or you have no right to exist.

Gene Roddenberry satirized this kind of political approach with the Borgs.

Then again H Jones is convinced I am a Ferengi.

That analogy will probably soar over a certain person's head as well as Liberace.