Al Queda laughing at American Government

[bush_cheney2004]

...That's just ideological mush. The argument was that was that society can't afford health care and I believe I've shown it most certainly can. It has many resources currently allocated to unnecessary items it could make use of, and the resources it currently uses (in the US) are being wasted by a grossly inefficient private sector system replete with fat profits and huge salaries for the executives.

Yes, U.S. healthcare is so wildly inefficient with excess capacity that Canada's provinces regularly send patients to the U.S. for certain procedures with wait times that are no longer politically acceptable in "efficient" Canada.

Edited May 15, 2013 by bush_cheney2004

[jacee]

Yes, U.S. healthcare is so wildly inefficient with excess capacity that Canada's provinces regularly send patients to the U.S. for certain procedures with wait times that are no longer politically acceptable in "efficient" Canada.

The cost inefficiency in the US, due to administering so many different private plans, has nothing to do with wait times: If you pay, you play.

[Pliny]

That's just ideological mush. The argument was that was that society can't afford health care and I believe I've shown it most certainly can. It has many resources currently allocated to unnecessary items it could make use of, and the resources it currently uses (in the US) are being wasted by a grossly inefficient private sector system replete with fat profits and huge salaries for the executives.

Ideological mush that proves itself in history every time. I really can't understand the mindset that believes government growth and the intervention of the State ever stops before the total State is achieved.

[bush_cheney2004]

The cost inefficiency in the US, due to administering so many different private plans, has nothing to do with wait times: If you pay, you play.

Administering private (and public) health care plans in the U.S. is not the only "inefficient" cost driver. The fee for service model and resulting excess capacities means that Americans pay more but they also get more, typically much faster than in Canada (and so called "triage principles"). The U.S. rations health care according to ability to pay (more cost, more capacity); Canada rations health care with wait times (less cost, less capacity).

[Pliny]

Just assume the view of Al Qaeda watching the Benghazi incident as fabricated by the Obama administration. "This was the result of a you tube video that sparked a spontaneous demonstration." Hardy-har-har-har!

If they lie like that to their own citizens what do you think they are saying to the rest of the world. If anything the federal government under Obama loses credibility.

[Pliny]

The U.S. rations health care according to ability to pay (more cost, more capacity); Canada rations health care with wait times (less cost, less capacity).

....and mediocrity.

[bush_cheney2004]

The Benghazi affair has a CIA context that is being lost in translation. All administrations will "lie" about such things. President Eisenhower "lied" to the "American people" when Gary Powers was shot down over the Soviet Union.

[Bitsy]

The Benghazi affair has a CIA context that is being lost in translation. All administrations will "lie" about such things. President Eisenhower "lied" to the "American people" when Gary Powers was shot down over the Soviet Union.

Good point.

First, some important context: Although the ambassador was killed, the Benghazi “consulate” was not a consulate at all but basically a secret CIA operation which included an effort to round up shoulder-launched missiles. In fact, only seven of the 30 Americans evacuated from Benghazi had any connection to the State Department; the rest were affiliated with the CIA.

The official reports, such as the one from the Accountability Review Board and the Senate Homeland Security Committee report, essentially dance around that uncomfortable fact:

“In December 2011, the Under Secretary for Management approved a one-year continuation of the U.S. Special Mission in Benghazi, which was never a consulate and never formally notified to the Libyan government.” (ARB)

“The attacks in Benghazi occurred at two different locations: a Department of State ‘Temporary Mission Facility’ and an Annex facility (‘Annex’) approximately a mile away used by another agency of the United States Government.” (Senate report)

So, from the State Department perspective, this was an attack on a CIA operation, perhaps by the very people the CIA was battling, and the ambassador tragically was in the wrong place at the wrong time. But, for obvious reasons, the administration could not publicly admit that Benghazi was mostly a secret CIA effort.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/an-alternative-explanation-for-the-benghazi-talking-points-bureaucratic-knife-fight/2013/05/10/22a8df5c-b98d-11e2-b94c-b684dda07add_blog.html

[Argus]

Administering private (and public) health care plans in the U.S. is not the only "inefficient" cost driver. The fee for service model and resulting excess capacities means that Americans pay more but they also get more, typically much faster than in Canada (and so called "triage principles"). The U.S. rations health care according to ability to pay (more cost, more capacity); Canada rations health care with wait times (less cost, less capacity).

Some Americans do. Some Americans get less. No one in the world of medical studies seems to be making the claim that Americans live longer or have higher survival rates for major diseases. So what is all that extra money buying you? Excess capacity so foreigners can come use it? I seriously doubt that's the intent.

[bush_cheney2004]

Some Americans do. Some Americans get less. No one in the world of medical studies seems to be making the claim that Americans live longer or have higher survival rates for major diseases. So what is all that extra money buying you? Excess capacity so foreigners can come use it? I seriously doubt that's the intent.

It's buying whatever Americans are willing to pay for, from publicly funded healthcare and pharma to the best in private care, elective procedures, and medical products. Canada's well to do and political elite sure know where to go, bypassing Tommy Douglas' peasant wait lines back home. Maybe Al Qaeda laughs at that too.

Today I received a thank-you note from my hospital endoscopy team.....they love well insured, paying customers !

[Pliny]

The Benghazi affair has a CIA context that is being lost in translation. All administrations will "lie" about such things. President Eisenhower "lied" to the "American people" when Gary Powers was shot down over the Soviet Union.

Lying in the interests of national security is different than lying purely for personal political gain.

[bush_cheney2004]

Lying in the interests of national security is different than lying purely for personal political gain.

No, they are often the same thing, and certainly not unique to President Obama. It's the nature of the office, particularly when it comes to foreign policy and covert missions/objectives. "The first casualty of war is truth" - Senator H.W. Johnson

[eyeball]

I don't think Johnson meant to bring the celebratory panache to his truism that you do.

[Argus]

It's buying whatever Americans are willing to pay for, from publicly funded healthcare and pharma to the best in private care, elective procedures, and medical products. Canada's well to do and political elite sure know where to go, bypassing Tommy Douglas' peasant wait lines back home. Maybe Al Qaeda laughs at that too.

Today I received a thank-you note from my hospital endoscopy team.....they love well insured, paying customers !

You, of course, miss the point entirely. The system in Canada and Europe provides for full health care services to everyone. Your system only provides for health care services for some, and it costs much more than everyone else is paying. It's a grossly inefficient system which leads to a large amount of money being wasted. Further, it has nothing to do with 'what Americans are willing to pay' since polls in the US have consistently shown they want public health care and only 32%, in a recent poll, found the current system either good or excellent. The US mixed health care system is in place DESPITE the wishes of the American people, not because of it. But that's the nature of living in a corrupt nation where the wealthy oligarchs own the people in government.

[Pliny]

No, they are often the same thing, and certainly not unique to President Obama. It's the nature of the office, particularly when it comes to foreign policy and covert missions/objectives. "The first casualty of war is truth" - Senator H.W. Johnson

They may sometimes be the same thing and I certainly don't suggest they are unique to Obama. Obama, however is a merchant of chaos, who thrives on crises.

If national security is the concern then that is what should be communicated. Actually, domestic social experimentation,

a problem of Big Brother statehood, is not beyond your government and Eisenhower presided over such programs as MK-Ultra. Denying the existence of such programs is indeed lying and if telling the truth would incite public outrage then perhaps government should re-evaluate what it is doing.

It is always an embarrassment to the citizens when its leaders abuse their powers and their petty personal hidden motives and/or partisan prejudiced activities are exposed.

I would suggest that Senator H.W. Johnson revise his statement to, "When truth is a casualty, war may be the result." Truth is lost long before war becomes a possibility or the reality.

[bush_cheney2004]

You, of course, miss the point entirely. The system in Canada and Europe provides for full health care services to everyone.

This is not true...in Canada or Europe, as there are eligibility requirements and other fine print that some Canadians and landed immigrants do not meet. And more to the practical point of actual health care being received, "access to a wait list is not access to health care". Canada has the most expensive and poorest performing universal access system in the world.

The Americans already have "public health care" on a scale that dwarfs anything in Canada, at the federal, state, and county levels. Canada's provinces actually contract with US providers to make up for the deficiencies and lack of capacity in Canada.

[bush_cheney2004]

They may sometimes be the same thing and I certainly don't suggest they are unique to Obama. Obama, however is a merchant of chaos, who thrives on crises.

"Never waste a good crisis" - Secretary of State Hillary Clinton

President Obama is now completely consumed by the office, something he could not conceive as a "community organizer" or even presidential candidate. And it is absolutely consistent with all presidents who have come before him. Lots more Americans already ask him harder questions than Canadians.

[waldo]

The Americans already have "public health care" on a scale that dwarfs anything in Canada, at the federal, state, and county levels. Canada's provinces actually contract with US providers to make up for the deficiencies and lack of capacity in Canada.

you can keep touting the "American health disadvantage" forever... whatever gets you through the day! I believe there's a thread on that disadvantage, right?

[jacee]

Administering private (and public) health care plans in the U.S. is not the only "inefficient" cost driver. The fee for service model and resulting excess capacities means that Americans pay more but they also get more, typically much faster than in Canada (and so called "triage principles"). The U.S. rations health care according to ability to pay (more cost, more capacity); Canada rations health care with wait times (less cost, less capacity).

All things considered, I'll stick with health care for everyone.

[bush_cheney2004]

you can keep touting the "American health disadvantage" forever... whatever gets you through the day! I believe there's a thread on that disadvantage, right?

...and I believe another Canadian and their family are on the way to The Mayo Clinic, tired of waiting in the collectivist peasant line for "triage principles".

[waldo]

...and I believe another Canadian and their family are on the way to The Mayo Clinic, tired of waiting in the collectivist peasant line for "triage principles".

clearly, we should resurrect the thread that dispatched all your silliness concerning the actual numbers... that very few Canadians travel to the U.S. for health care reasons. Of course, should you persist I'm quite prepared to flog those graphs/details that speak to the, quite literally, hundreds of thousands of Americans forced to seek health care outside your (claimed) country! As before, you continue to play your ridiculous games of false equivalency.

have you nothing new?

[Guest American Woman]

clearly, we should resurrect the thread that dispatched all your silliness concerning the actual numbers... that very few Canadians travel to the U.S. for health care reasons. Of course, should you persist I'm quite prepared to flog those graphs/details that speak to the, quite literally, hundreds of thousands of Americans forced to seek health care outside your (claimed) country! As before, you continue to play your ridiculous games of false equivalency.

have you nothing new?

Hundreds of thousands vs. tens of thousands in a country with health care for all and 1/10th the population (insert here). Furthermore, Americans aren't "forced" as in "services not available in the country" as is sometimes the case with Canadians who actually were "forced" to go outside of their country because the services were not available there.

[bush_cheney2004]

clearly, we should resurrect the thread that dispatched all your silliness concerning the actual numbers... that very few Canadians travel to the U.S. for health care reasons.

No reason to do that...provincial contracts with U.S. providers already lay waste to that argument. I checked my U.S. provider network again just in case some Canadian clinics or hospitals had been added....nope...seems they are very busy just trying to satisfy Canadians with smoke and mirrors "triage principles" and wait time web sites. I guess waiting is...ummmm...PATRIOTIC !!

Maybe we should ask Al Qaeda what they prefer ?

Edited May 18, 2013 by bush_cheney2004

[waldo]

Hundreds of thousands vs. tens of thousands in a country with health care for all and 1/10th the population (insert here). Furthermore, Americans aren't "forced" as in "services not available in the country" as is sometimes the case with Canadians who actually were "forced" to go outside of their country because the services were not available there.

tens of thousands??? Show your numbers... as I recall from the 'other thread', for a particular year in question, ~ 1000-1500 (I can't recall off the top the actual number) persons from Canada's largest populated province, Ontario, had availed themselves of out-of-country medical care to the U.S..

no - Americans are forced... a service isn't available to an American without health insurance or without an ability to pay the exorbitant costs involved... or when an insurer refuses to cover the service... or when the insurer to cover costs because of a pre-existing condition... etc. I mean, really, why have hundreds of thousands of Americans regularly, year upon year, traveled abroad for medical care? Why?

[waldo]

No reason to do that...provincial contracts with U.S. providers already lay waste to that argument. I checked my U.S. provider network again just in case some Canadian clinics or hospitals had been added....nope...seems they are very busy just trying to satisfy Canadians with smoke and mirrors "triage principles" and wait time web sites. I guess waiting is...ummmm...PATRIOTIC !!

Maybe we should ask Al Qaeda what they prefer ?

ask Al Qaeda? Ya, c'mon... I've already prompted you to resurrect the related thread... to take it outside this thread. What's your hesitation?

you can keep attempting to belittle the 'triage' principle behind Canada's universal health care. Anything to keep the focus off your 'American health disadvantage'!!!