Bridal Shop Refuses Transgender Customer

[Canuckistani]

Nope........just His ...Hers.......and Whatever.

It seems things are heading in the direction of just Whatever - no more fuss, no confusion.

[guyser]

It seems things are heading in the direction of just Whatever - no more fuss, no confusion.

Why not? Unisex bathrooms have been around for awhile now.

High School in Oregon, Unisex washroom available

Coed washrooms have been around for ages.

[Boges]

Why not? Unisex bathrooms have been around for awhile now.

High School in Oregon, Unisex washroom available

Coed washrooms have been around for ages.

Well I don't think men can make decisions like this.

I think women might feel different about allowing men to use the same public bathrooms as them.

I accidentally walked into a women's change room at a gym, I was worried I would be thrown out of the place.

And as much as you'd like to consider transgendered man a woman. They physically still are men.

Edited May 7, 2013 by Boges

[TimG]

And as much as you'd like to consider transgendered man a woman. They physically still are men.

This is the point that social engineers don't see to understand. It makes no difference if someone thinks they are woman if they are biologically a man. This means they don't belong in places which have been designated for women.

[Boges]

This is the point that social engineers don't see to understand. It makes no difference if someone thinks they are woman if they are biologically a man. This means they don't belong in places which have been designated for women.

Yeah, pretty much. This is not common yet though. But if you allow to believe they is no distinction between them and other women except for some plumbing you could see some serious social implications.

Edited May 8, 2013 by Boges

[jacee]

Well I don't think men can make decisions like this.

I think women might feel different about allowing men to use the same public bathrooms as them.

I accidentally walked into a women's change room at a gym, I was worried I would be thrown out of the place.

Were you dressed as a woman? Do you identify as a woman?

I think women understand the issue and most can deal with it.

It's not men's issue, so they should butt out.

Are men going to freak out and start screaming if a woman who dresses and identifies as a man wants to shop and try on clothes in a men's shop?

Do women care? I doubt it.

Butt out guys.

[jacee]

This is the point that social engineers don't see to understand. It makes no difference if someone thinks they are woman if they are biologically a man. This means they don't belong in places which have been designated for women.

So you're going to do the genital checks on women who, in your opinion, 'look like' men?

Edited May 8, 2013 by jacee

[Boges]

So you're going to do the genital checks on women who, in your opinion, 'look like' men?

You'll know cuz they're standing up.

[jacee]

You'll know cuz they're standing up.

I won't know because they'll be in a private cubicle.

There are no urinals in women's washrooms.

That's why men should butt out and let women deal with women's issues.

She just wanted to try on a dress in a private dressing room, for pete's sake!

[Boges]

I won't know because they'll be in a private cubicle.

There are no urinals in women's washrooms.

That's why men should butt out and let women deal with women's issues.

Are you speaking for all women?

She just wanted to try on a dress in a private dressing room, for pete's sake!

Yeah I don't care about that. Nothing wrong with the man wanting to try on a dress.

However, I'm not sure why the legal system should concern itself who a private person wants to do business or not.

[jacee]

Are you speaking for all women?

Yeah I don't care about that. Nothing wrong with the man wanting to try on a dress.

However, I'm not sure why the legal system should concern itself who a private person wants to do business or not.

If you serve the public, you serve ALL of the public.

Discrimination isn't allowed.

[Boges]

If you serve the public, you serve ALL of the public.

Discrimination isn't allowed.

Discrimination is allowed. There are women's only clubs all over the place. So as long as you feel you are a woman, you should be allowed to go to these clubs?

Edited May 8, 2013 by Boges

[GostHacked]

If you serve the public, you serve ALL of the public.

Discrimination isn't allowed.

Discrimination is allowed. If you cause a problem in my place of business that is affecting other customers, you are going to get tossed out. You don't have the right to tell me how my business should be run.

[Michael Hardner]

Discrimination is allowed. If you cause a problem in my place of business that is affecting other customers, you are going to get tossed out. You don't have the right to tell me how my business should be run.

Absolutely right that discrimination is allowed but not for every basis of discrimination. You can discriminate on certain behaviors but not skin colour, generally speaking.

[GostHacked]

Absolutely right that discrimination is allowed but not for every basis of discrimination. You can discriminate on certain behaviors but not skin colour, generally speaking.

Well regardless I still think it is the shop owners right to refuse service for whatever reasons. One also has the right to protest, and search out an establishment that will cater to your needs.

[Canuckistani]

Well regardless I still think it is the shop owners right to refuse service for whatever reasons. One also has the right to protest, and search out an establishment that will cater to your needs.

You do, the law doesn't.

[GostHacked]

You do, the law doesn't.

Ya think?????? Thanks for the clarification.

[BC_chick]

This is the point that social engineers don't see to understand. It makes no difference if someone thinks they are woman if they are biologically a man. This means they don't belong in places which have been designated for women.

See, this brings us back to my point earlier. I can actually respect this blatant rejection of Singh's gender identity so much more than when you were trying to pretend it's about Muslims in swimming pools or whatever other straws people seem to be grasping at.

You Don't Consider Her A Woman. That's all you need. Period. Thanks for finally saying it.

It's not shocking, actually. Some people still don't consider blacks equals even 50, 60 years after the civil rights movement. These things take time.

We are now in a new civil rights movement, and once again, it'll take time before society comes around.

As I said earlier, some people will have to get dragged into the new century kicking and screaming in lawsuits it seems.

[g_bambino]

I can actually respect this blatant rejection of Singh's gender identity...

It's not shocking, actually. Some people still don't consider blacks equals even 50, 60 years after the civil rights movement. These things take time.

He didn't reject his gender identity; he rejected the notion that Singh's self-identification as a woman makes him an actual woman, or, at least, female. If he has XY sex chromosones, he's a male, regardless of what century it is or who thinks what about people of sub-Saharan African descent.

[Guest American Woman]

It's not shocking, actually. Some people still don't consider blacks equals even 50, 60 years after the civil rights movement. These things take time.

Really? You're comparing gender identity to being Black? In that case, what if I feel Black and identify as Black? Does that make me Black? Can I apply for the job that says "whites need not apply?" And what if I feel as if I'm a First Nations person - do I get the same fishing rights as First Nations people in Canada? And if not, why not?

We are now in a new civil rights movement, and once again, it'll take time before society comes around.

So how about answering the question I raised earlier - should a public school allow a 16 year old boy who says he feels like a girl to shower in the girls shower room with the girls? Is it bigotry and discrimination if they do not?

[BC_chick]

Really? You're comparing gender identity to being Black? In that case, what if I feel Black and identify as Black? Does that make me Black? Can I apply for the job that says "whites need not apply?" And what if I feel as if I'm a First Nations person - do I get the same fishing rights as First Nations people in Canada? And if not, why not?

So how about answering the question I raised earlier - should a public school allow a 16 year old boy who says he feels like a girl to shower in the girls shower room with the girls? Is it bigotry and discrimination if they do not?

Edited- a public school locker room and a private establishment with private dressing rooms are apples and oranges. Do you really not see that?!

Edited May 12, 2013 by BC_chick

[TimG]

a public school locker room and a private establishment with private dressing rooms are apples and oranges. Do you really not see that?!

What she was doing establishing that denying access to a transgender person to areas designated for women only *is* acceptable under some circumstances. This demonstrates that there is no parallel to the past where the color of ones skin was used to deny access.

We can debate whether the restriction in a bridal shop is reasonable once we agree that discrimination against transgender is perfectly acceptable under some circumstances.

Edited May 12, 2013 by TimG

[jacee]

What she was doing establishing that denying access to a transgender person to areas designated for women only *is* acceptable under some circumstances. This demonstrates that there is no parallel to the past where the color of ones skin was used to deny access.

We can debate whether the restriction in a bridal shop is reasonable once we agree that discrimination against transgender is perfectly acceptable under some circumstances.

Unh ... no.

Because we haven't yet established how to implement that discrimination:

Who's doing the genital checks?

"Officer I think this woman's skirt may be hiding a penis, which is not allowed in here. Would you check please?"

Give it up TimG.

It could be your Aunt Agnes with the facial hair having to prove she's a woman ... to whom?

It could be a post op transgender woman.

It's ridiculous to think of discriminating based on what genitals you guess someone has.

[TimG]

Because we haven't yet established how to implement that discrimination:

We have clear way to implement.

The only person that does not understand is you.

Everyone understands that government issued ID states a sex.

That is one's sex one has until it is changed and that change is certified by a doctor.

(who presumably does 'genital checks').

If a manly women is wrongly rejected when she wants to join an all women fitness club she can show her ID.

It is no more embarrassing than a young looking 30 year old who has to show ID to buy booze.

A transvestite who 'thinks he is a woman' would not qualify.

Edited May 12, 2013 by TimG

[Guest American Woman]

Edited- a public school locker room and a private establishment with private dressing rooms are apples and oranges. Do you really not see that?!

I'm thinking it's you who doesn't see the difference between race and the feelings of gender. For example - you'd never make this comment if the issue were a black girl rather than a boy who feels like a girl. A black girl would unquestionably be able to use the girls' shower room in a public school - because she's a girl. Obviously you think a boy who feels like a girl should not be able to use said showers - because he's not a girl; so it's not a simple matter of just saying one feels like a girl - as you compare race and gender identity as if they are the same, which we have now established they are not.

At any rate, as long as you are condoning "discrimination" against the boy who feels like a girl in public schools, you are acknowledging that it's not cut and dried that anyone who simply feels like a girl is a girl - and as such, they are not automatically entitled to use facilities designated for females.

Edited May 12, 2013 by American Woman