Bridal Shop Refuses Transgender Customer

[bush_cheney2004]

No, "He" walked into a store and asked to try on a dress. If "He" or ("She") had to ask, then the answer can be "No".

[Guest American Woman]

She walked into a store and asked to try on a dress. She was refused and left in tears. Guess the store should have a big sign "this store run by bigots." Or "we don't serve people who fit into our narrow gender definitions so get lost" or just "No weirdos."

How "bigoted" are you? Would you let a 16 year old male who says he feels like a girl have a sleepover with your 16 year old daughter? Would putting on a dress be all it takes for you to treat him the same way you do her girl friends in such situations?

[Canuckistani]

How "bigoted" are you? Would you let a 16 year old male who says he feels like a girl have a sleepover with your 16 year old daughter? Would putting on a dress be all it takes for you to treat him the same way you do her girl friends in such situations?

Yes. If they're doing it, having a sleepover isn't going to change it one way or another. If he's really a girl, and my daughter not a lesbian, then there's no worry. Well, not a worry if she is a lesbian either.

Edited May 7, 2013 by Canuckistani

[Canuckistani]

No, "He" walked into a store and asked to try on a dress. If "He" or ("She") had to ask, then the answer can be "No".

Well no, it can't be no. If a black woman has to ask, the answer can't be no - see my drift? You wanting to call her a he doesn't change the situation. If I walked into that store, I should be permitted to try on a dress if they have one my size. If I want to look pretty at my wedding, what business is it of theirs of the state of my junk?

[Guest American Woman]

Yes. If they're doing it, having a sleepover isn't going to change it one way or another.

Wow. They may be drinking too. Are you going to buy booze and let them drink it at your house too? That wouldn't

change it one way or the other? You'd let them do whatever they want because they are doing it anyway? Ok.

If he's really a girl, and my daughter not a lesbian, then there's no worry. Well, not a worry if she is a lesbian either.

So all a boy has to do is say he feels like a girl, and that's good enough for you. He can sleep with your teenage daughter, in your house, with your permission. I'd wager that by far most parents wouldn't share your parenting style.

Edited May 7, 2013 by American Woman

[Canuckistani]

At 16, sure they can sleep together.

But I would know this boy, I would know if she's really transgender or not. Of course it gets complicated. There are plenty of M - F transsexuals who are lesbians. If this person had their penis removed would you let her sleep with your daughter? How do yo know your daughter isn't a lesbian and those sleepovers are getting pretty hot and heavy?

[Guest American Woman]

At 16, sure they can sleep together.

As I said, most parents by far would not share your parenting style.

But I would know this boy, I would know if she's really transgender or not. Of course it gets complicated. There are plenty of M - F transsexuals who are lesbians. If this person had their penis removed would you let her sleep with your daughter? How do yo know your daughter isn't a lesbian and those sleepovers are getting pretty hot and heavy?

But, as you say, "[you] would know this boy." People in public don't know the boy/man, so his simply saying he's a girl doesn't mean everyone is comfortable with it. That doesn't make them a bigot. That's my point.

In answer to your questions - I had a close relationship with my daughters, so I'd know; however, if they were lesbians and I didn't know, I wouldn't knowingly be giving them permission to have sex - and they would not be getting pregnant as a result. As for the boy being post-operation, I've already said that I believe that's a different situation.

Again. I believe in rights for transgender people, but I think in some situations the legal status of their gender should be a consideration.

[bush_cheney2004]

Well no, it can't be no. If a black woman has to ask, the answer can't be no - see my drift? You wanting to call her a he doesn't change the situation. If I walked into that store, I should be permitted to try on a dress if they have one my size. If I want to look pretty at my wedding, what business is it of theirs of the state of my junk?

No, it would be the same if it was a "white woman" and the answer was no. The business owner gets to decline service to anybody. Ever seen "No shoes, no shirt, no service" signs ? Men are legally declined memberships in "women only" health clubs as was discussed above..

[Canuckistani]

Lots of stories about gay boys and girls hiding their sexuality from their parents, close relationship or no. If you're that freaked out about a man who identifies as a woman and is working toward being one trying on a dress, I'm not sure your daughter would feel safe telling you if she was gay.

As for pregnancy, that's what birth control is for. Why is an all girl lesbian sleepover OK with you, but not a hetero one?

[Canuckistani]

No, it would be the same if it was a "white woman" and the answer was no. The business owner gets to decline service to anybody. Ever seen "No shoes, no shirt, no service" signs ? Men are legally declined memberships in "women only" health clubs as was discussed above..

Nice dodge. So the owner can say no to a white woman but not a black one.

As for the health club thing, it's an exception to the rule, not the rule. I don't agree with it, but I don't make the laws. Actually, if it's a real club, they can do what they want, exclude whoever they want. If the bridal shop owner wants to turn it into a private club, let her do so. Probably cost her lots of business tho.

Edited May 7, 2013 by Canuckistani

[bush_cheney2004]

Nice dodge. So the owner can say no to a white woman but not a black one.

As for the health club thing, it's an exception to the rule, not the rule. I don't agree with it, but I don't make the laws.

The owner can say no to whomever they wish..."black women" was your cheap stereotypical shot, not mine.

Once exceptions are permitted, there can be other exceptions....and many others exist.

Hell, there is another current thread about the CBC's discriminatory casting calls.

[Guest American Woman]

Lots of stories about gay boys and girls hiding their sexuality from their parents, close relationship or no. If you're that freaked out about a man who identifies as a woman and is working toward being one trying on a dress, I'm not sure your daughter would feel safe telling you if she was gay.

What does being transgender have to do with being gay? You think they are the same? Because they are not.

And where I did I say *I* would be freaked out? What I did say is a male saying he's a girl does not automatically make him a girl. As has been pointed out - the public doesn't "know the man," and has no idea if he just put on a dress to get access to women trying on clothes or if he "has been working toward being one." Generally that's not something a store owner or customers would be aware of, eh?

As for pregnancy, that's what birth control is for. Why is an all girl lesbian sleepover OK with you, but not a hetero one?

I didn't say an all-girl lesbian sleepover was OK with me, did I? I didn't say that at all .But yeah. All 16 year olds are using birth control - and it's all 100% effective.

As I said, the vast majority of parents wouldn't agree with your parenting style.

Edited May 7, 2013 by American Woman

[Canuckistani]

Some transgender are also gay - so someone born male who identifies as female but is sexually attracted to other females. And I brought up gays because you seemed to assume the daugher in question was straight - but what if she's gay and wants a sleepover with other girls?

And the dress thing - who cares if s/he is a male or female? This is a customer wanting to try on a dress. What's the big deal? he didn't look like this:

She looks like this:

[bush_cheney2004]

Hey, if the bridal dress owner must accept "men", then why not the biker dude ?

[Canuckistani]

I doubt if they have a dress to fit him. But as long as he's well behaved and smells pretty, I say they have to take him if they have a dress in his size.

[guyser]

I suspect (if reporting is correct and her words are true) that the shopkeeper will lose.

"He (sic) looked like a man"

No surprise this was on Saskatoon.

[Guest American Woman]

And the dress thing - who cares if s/he is a male or female? This is a customer wanting to try on a dress. What's the big deal?

I've already responded to that aspect of the situation many times, so I won't be repeating myself now.

he didn't look like this:

I thought it was supposed to be about how they felt, not how they looked. So you're saying a transgender who looks feminine should be granted more rights than one who looks masculine?

She looks like this:

Since you brought up looks, that photo appears to have had some photo-shopping as the person in question looks a lot more like a man in a dress in this candid shot:

[bush_cheney2004]

Wow....I think I am in love ! Let him try on a dress.

[GostHacked]

Not understanding the tangent about the sleepovers. Seems irrelevant to the topic.

[Michael Hardner]

Do you really want to give money to an establishment that won't take you as a customer?

I think the person in question is trying to achieve a higher goal - ie. fair treatment for her kind.

[Michael Hardner]

I have to wonder - couldn't he, for a minute, think about the feelings/rights of others, too? He knows what it's like to feel uncomfortable in society, so couldn't he realize that until he is post-operation that women could, understandably, feel uncomfortable being around him in such a situation?

I think that it's like the whites-only situation, or people don't like to see same-sex kissing situation... the people who are offended will have to get used to it - the legal issue at play doesn't come down in their favour despite their reactions to it.

Some people do think as you suggest, and others are tired of hiding because people are offended. So, then it has to be sorted out in the courts, that's all.

[bush_cheney2004]

...Some people do think as you suggest, and others are tired of hiding because people are offended. So, then it has to be sorted out in the courts, that's all.

Did "the courts" and lawmakers so find in the case of women's only gyms ?

[GostHacked]

I think the person in question is trying to achieve a higher goal - ie. fair treatment for her kind.

He identified as a she, but technically he is still a he until the operation is complete. But whenever I get bad business from an establishment for any reason, I will simply not return and give my business to someone else.

It''s really that simple. there will be some shop out there that will accommodate, so why not seek it out? Then that place will make more money being open to transgendered. Vote with your dollar.

Even if making a stink about it, I would never return to that place of business. Even if they changed their mind and welcomed me.

[Boges]

Did "the courts" and lawmakers so find in the case of women's only gyms ?

There was a Human Rights Tribunal case in St. Catharines, Ontario where a transgendered person wanted to use the woman's change room. The case ended up being dropped.

Will there come a time when all establishments have to have 4 bathrooms or women will have to accept the fact that men that identify as women can use women's only facilities?

Edited May 7, 2013 by Boges

[guyser]

Will there come a time when all establishments have to have 4 bathrooms or women will have to accept the fact that men that identify as women can use women's only facilities?

Nope........just His ...Hers.......and Whatever.