Dow just broke 15,000

[GostHacked]

So what does that mean anyways? What is the significance of it going past 15,000?

[Argus]

I thought maybe this was just here in Kim City we're a little out of the way. But apparently, this is a widespread thing. Lots of Sears stores apparently suck just as much as my local Sears. And there's a reason why: in 2005, Sears stopped spending money on capital improvements, as well as selling stores on valuable real-estate, to raise their

Anyway, this is an example of a company boosting its stock price by shooting itself in the foot. Once again a company causes itself long-term damage for short-sighted reasons.

Mised seeing this when it was posted. Sears was bought by a hedge fund a few years back, which is in the process of gutting it and selling off the pieces. And yes, it's all about making quick bucks off the stock price rises, then selling, and moving on to something else, another company to take over and tear apart for immediate cash value. I think the stock is now in its final death dive, though. Everything about sears, from net income to in store sales to return on investment is negative, and the stock, in the best year the dow has seen in a long time, dropped 22%, plus another 25% just this month. Sears as an ongoing concern, as a retail outlet, will be gone within the next few years, unless someone decides to buy the brand name, if it's worth anything by then.

Edited February 2, 2014 by Argus

[Argus]

So here we are several months later and the Dow is down 877 points for the year, one month into 2014. Are we due for another recession? With Bernanke cutting back on QE3 the economy is going to have to learn to do without some of that easy money.

I don't think so. The fall in the Down and other NA markets has not really related much to the economy. People are suggesting its emerging market currencies, which are in turn affected by the tapering, and they also throw in some Chinese debt, but who knows for sure? I was up almost 5% on the month right up until about a week ago, and finished the month down about 1.5%. Agravating, but not serious. Personally, I think it was more because a lot of people were selling off to take profits on last year (taxes not due till next year now) combined with the doomsayers. Every day there were articles bemoaning the lack of a 'correction' and it started to get investers nervous. So the first really bad day, spawned another, then another. The market whipsawed up and down as people trying to run before the 'correction' sold off while those who knew the economy was going well and stocks would soon rise again bought heavily. All the pundits seem to believe this will be a good year for markets, if not as absurdly profitable as last year (I was up 30% myself).

[Argus]

So what does that mean anyways? What is the significance of it going past 15,000?

It was just a psychological thing. People were making "oooo" and "aaaahhh" noises when it passed 16,000 too.

[cybercoma]

He doesn't hate business. He's just an economic illiterate, with absolutely no idea as to create an environment for strong economic growth to take place. Regardless, quantiative easing, which is handled by the fed, is it's own entity and has nothing to do with Obama. QE1, 2, and 3 which have proped up the stock market is the biggest reason why "the rich" have done very well the last few years, and others have not.

You know why economic growth can't take place? Because there's certain "economic illiterates" that can't see that concentrating wealth at the top leaves the people who create demand with no money to spend. That's why profits continue to rise, while unemployment remains largely unchanged and relatively high. Until the government starts busting up the concentration of wealth and putting it back into the hands of the people that create demand, the problem will only continue to get worse.

[cybercoma]

Mised seeing this when it was posted. Sears was bought by a hedge fund a few years back, which is in the process of gutting it and selling off the pieces. And yes, it's all about making quick bucks off the stock price rises, then selling, and moving on to something else, another company to take over and tear apart for immediate cash value. I think the stock is now in its final death dive, though. Everything about sears, from net income to in store sales to return on investment is negative, and the stock, in the best year the dow has seen in a long time, dropped 22%, plus another 25% just this month. Sears as an ongoing concern, as a retail outlet, will be gone within the next few years, unless someone decides to buy the brand name, if it's worth anything by then.

And this is exactly why wealth is being concentrated, profits rise, and unemployment remains high, thereby stalling the recovery.

[sharkman]

Mised seeing this when it was posted. Sears was bought by a hedge fund a few years back, which is in the process of gutting it and selling off the pieces. And yes, it's all about making quick bucks off the stock price rises, then selling, and moving on to something else, another company to take over and tear apart for immediate cash value. I think the stock is now in its final death dive, though. Everything about sears, from net income to in store sales to return on investment is negative, and the stock, in the best year the dow has seen in a long time, dropped 22%, plus another 25% just this month. Sears as an ongoing concern, as a retail outlet, will be gone within the next few years, unless someone decides to buy the brand name, if it's worth anything by then.

Is that pretty much what Romney's old company was doing? It seems like a shame to see Sears brought so low by nothing better than a pirate mentality. Our Sears is much the same. I've made a few purchases there in the last few years and now get a Sears rep calling us wanting to sell extended warranties. I don't believe in extended warranties and less so now if it's from Sears.

[cybercoma]

Is that pretty much what Romney's old company was doing? It seems like a shame to see Sears brought so low by nothing better than a pirate mentality. Our Sears is much the same. I've made a few purchases there in the last few years and now get a Sears rep calling us wanting to sell extended warranties. I don't believe in extended warranties and less so now if it's from Sears.

That "pirate mentality" has been going on since at least the 1980s. The entire premise of Oliver Stone's film Wall Street with Michael Douglas is about exactly that.

[bleeding heart]

Kevin O'Leary is busily reprising the Gordon Gekko role, however.

[bush_cheney2004]

.... That's why profits continue to rise, while unemployment remains largely unchanged and relatively high.

This is false for Canada, as unemployment rates have been trending down for years, and are actually at relative lows. So does this mean that "wealth concentration" is good for employment and consumerism in Canada, which now has record high personal debt:

Edited February 4, 2014 by bush_cheney2004

[cybercoma]

This is false for Canada, as unemployment rates in have been trending down for years, and are actually at relative lows. So does this mean that "wealth concentration" is good for employment and consumerism in Canada, which now has record high personal debt:

Oh, sorry....were there Canadian companies on the Dow? Is that what's being discussed here or are you derailing another thread with your incessant trolling schtick?

If you want to read and look at some graphs about Canada, here you go. But I'm not going to contribute any further to your idiotic little game of invoking Canada vs US nonsense into every single thread.

http://nl1430.policyalternatives.ca/sites/default/files/uploads/publications/National_Office_Pubs/2007/Rising_Profit_Shares_Falling_Wage_Shares.pdf

[bush_cheney2004]

Oh, sorry....were there Canadian companies on the Dow? Is that what's being discussed here or are you derailing another thread with your incessant trolling schtick?

Sorry, but the Dow includes US based corporations with large footprints in Canada. You may have heard of a few...but maybe not. These corporations employ Canadians...lots of 'em. And they buy stuff..lots of it...much coming from the U.S. economy.

The U.S. economy, 70% driven by consumer spending, is also growing.

Your premise and "schtick" has been busted, and you don't like it. Hang the rich, eh ?

Edited February 2, 2014 by bush_cheney2004

[cybercoma]

Feel free to read that report when you get around to it. In the meantime, happy trolling.

[bush_cheney2004]

Feel free to read that report when you get around to it. In the meantime, happy trolling.

Don't believe everything you read.

[On Guard for Thee]

Oh, sorry....were there Canadian companies on the Dow? Is that what's being discussed here or are you derailing another thread with your incessant trolling schtick?

If you want to read and look at some graphs about Canada, here you go. But I'm not going to contribute any further to your idiotic little game of invoking Canada vs US nonsense into every single thread.

http://nl1430.policyalternatives.ca/sites/default/files/uploads/publications/National_Office_Pubs/2007/Rising_Profit_Shares_Falling_Wage_Shares.pdf

He's maybe still a little ticked about 1812.

[kimmy]

He doesn't hate business. He's just an economic illiterate, with absolutely no idea as to create an environment for strong economic growth to take place. Regardless, quantiative easing, which is handled by the fed, is it's own entity and has nothing to do with Obama. QE1, 2, and 3 which have proped up the stock market is the biggest reason why "the rich" have done very well the last few years, and others have not.

Obama has hired a whole platoon of Wall Street goons, including one of Mitt Romney's old friends from Bain Capital, to guide the economic policy of his administration. That's probably a big part of the problem, in fact. It's a great environment for Wall Street, but "good for Wall Street" doesn't necessarily mean "good for Main Street".

As for Quantitative Easing, yeah... I read one article not too long ago arguing that Quantitative Easing is the biggest transfer of wealth from the middle class to the wealthy in history. As I understand it it's basically Trickle Down Economics dusted off and disguised enough that people won't recognize it.

-k

[Argus]

As for Quantitative Easing, yeah... I read one article not too long ago arguing that Quantitative Easing is the biggest transfer of wealth from the middle class to the wealthy in history. As I understand it it's basically Trickle Down Economics dusted off and disguised enough that people won't recognize it.

As long as you can put a billion dollars in the stock market and make +20% back, with no new employees, no buildings to manage, no marketing campaigns, no worries about sales, no regulations, and a very small tax rate, why would you put that money into expanding your business in other areas? Why would you build a new factory, or try to sell a new product? Why would you hire new people and deal with all the headaches? What are PEOPLE to you but an annoyance and a burden?

[sharkman]

Another bad day for the Dow. Could this be the start of a trend?

[bush_cheney2004]

I sure hope so....too much money sitting on the sidelines waiting for a good entry point.

[sharkman]

Argus is saying money is in the stock market right now, BC is saying money is staying out of the market. I suppose both can be true, but if this market is in for a major down turn as several things are coming to a head at once, will that mean a rush for the Dow exits? A run on gold? Upward pressure on the Cdn buck?

Edited February 4, 2014 by sharkman

[Argus]

Argus is saying money is in the stock market right now, BC is saying money is staying out of the market. I suppose both can be true, but if this market is in for a major down turn as several things are coming to a head at once, will that mean a rush for the Dow exits? A run on gold? Upward pressure on the Cdn buck?

The big mess in 2008/2009 cost a lot of people a lot of money, and many individual investors have been reluctant to go anywhere near the market for a long time. They've put their money in bonds and such instead, anything but the market. However, the big boys are well-invested. The big corporations which have billions and billions unspent are not putting that money in a sock drawer, you know. Apple has about $150 billion in cash. If they had that invested last year in the market they probably would have earned about $40-50 billion or so. I don't see them passing up that kind of money.

[Shady]

Obama has hired a whole platoon of Wall Street goons, including one of Mitt Romney's old friends from Bain Capital, to guide the economic policy of his administration. That's probably a big part of the problem, in fact. It's a great environment for Wall Street, but "good for Wall Street" doesn't necessarily mean "good for Main Street".

As for Quantitative Easing, yeah... I read one article not too long ago arguing that Quantitative Easing is the biggest transfer of wealth from the middle class to the wealthy in history. As I understand it it's basically Trickle Down Economics dusted off and disguised enough that people won't recognize it.

-k

It's irrelevant who Obama hires. It's his horrible economic policies that are the problem. Quantitative Easing isn't any sort of so-called trickle down economics. It's actually trickle down government. It's the government printing money out of thin air to keep the stock market inflated.

[Shady]

The market ain't doing so hot now eh Argus?

Told ya that was coming several months ago, as soon as the Fed started to taper off quantitative easing. When you pay more attention to American politics and economics instead of just relying on Fox News hating blogs and websites, you learn these things.

[On Guard for Thee]

The market ain't doing so hot now eh Argus?

Told ya that was coming several months ago, as soon as the Fed started to taper off quantitative easing. When you pay more attention to American politics and economics instead of just relying on Fox News hating blogs and websites, you learn these things.

I thought all the rednecks relied on Fox for "news"

[sharkman]

The market ain't doing so hot now eh Argus?

Told ya that was coming several months ago, as soon as the Fed started to taper off quantitative easing. When you pay more attention to American politics and economics instead of just relying on Fox News hating blogs and websites, you learn these things.

i hope today the fear in the markets will subside, but with the soft economic reports, it's hard to say what will happen. Japan's market just lost 4% yesterday in response to the Dow.

Edited February 4, 2014 by sharkman