Ontario Transit Debate

[Topaz]

Someone told me the only reason Wynn is going ahead with this, is she knows most of the voters are on Toronto, and that they will support her. IF this is about Toronto, then raise taxes in Toronto to pay for it but if this did go ahead, then you would see the price of everything delivered go up again, like food and not just gasoline.

[Boges]

Someone told me the only reason Wynn is going ahead with this, is she knows most of the voters are on Toronto, and that they will support her. IF this is about Toronto, then raise taxes in Toronto to pay for it but if this did go ahead, then you would see the price of everything delivered go up again, like food and not just gasoline.

You think people in the GTA would support this? Only people that would are people that already take transit. And I'm sure those people don't expect the increased cost of fuel to be reflected in fares.

Edited December 15, 2013 by Boges

[Topaz]

People who take public transit have one advantage over people who have to drive to work. You get to write of 15% of the fare from your fed.income tax, right? What about people who have to drive, can they write off 15% of their gas bill??? NO!

[Boges]

You can write off travel expenses if you're self employed or you need your car for more than a simple commute

[guyser]

This isn't about who pays for what. It's about an inept government who have repeatedly proven they couldn't run a lemonade stand saying they've squandered the money given to them, so rhey need more, and are willing to stick it to average commuters across the province to pay for improved transit for people who already use transit.

In some respects I agree re the govt and squandering, however the salient point remains, we need help getting this city and province running again.

[Boges]

In some respects I agree re the govt and squandering, however the salient point remains, we need help getting this city and province running again.

By instituting another punitive gas tax?

What government doesn't set a side money for in their budget for infrastructure spending?

The GO-Train Lakeshore line service has doubled this year. It was done without a dedicated transit tax.

[guyser]

By instituting another punitive gas tax?

If thats what it takes....yes.

What government doesn't set a side money for in their budget for infrastructure spending?

The GO-Train Lakeshore line service has doubled this year. It was done without a dedicated transit tax.

New lines, new rail new crossings?

[Boges]

If thats what it takes....yes.

New lines, new rail new crossings?

Well they're already building the link from Union to Pearson, I would hope that's funded.

If City council could actually decide something Scarborough should get some sort of new transit whether it be LRT or a Subway. That's funded.

What Toronto needs is a Downtown relief line but taxes province-wide to pay for that is insane.

Mississauga is slated to get an LRT going up to Highway 10.

New transit is being built the government just wants a dedicated slush fund so they don't actually have to worry about being accountable about what they spend.

[Boges]

Well Wynne Sold Out.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/kathleen-wynne-rules-out-gas-tax-hst-hike-for-transit-1.2571149

Ontario Premier Kathleen Wynne says her government will not hike the HST, raise gas taxes or increase personal income taxes to pay for transit expansion in the Greater Toronto Area.

Wynne made the announcement Thursday at a news conference held inside the kitchen of a private family home in Toronto, touting the move as a way to protect "middle-income earners."

"We need investments in transit, but whatever we do has to be fair," said Wynne. "Im not going to ask the people in North Bay to pay for transit in the GTA."

The news comes as the minority Liberals get ready to present a budget that will require opposition support to pass and avoid triggering a provincial election.

The thing is, Wynne had multiple panels that advised her to implement these Revenue Tools. It took the NDP, who had this position months ago, saying they'd defeat the budget if these tools were proposed for Wynne to finally realize that this policy was a non-starter?

I'm happy she's finally come off this position (who knows what she'll do if she gets a majority though) but all the money wasted just to come to the same conclusion that I could have told you was the right answer a long time ago is sooo wasteful.

What she has done is cut the knees out of the Metrolinx and the Big Move. Why even have this organization around if what they say or do is completely irrelevant? It's just a giant money pit at this point.

Edited March 13, 2014 by Boges

[Boges]

So it appears the Liberals plan to make generate some revenue is to ticket people using their phones to death.

http://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark/2014/03/17/ontario_introduces_comprehensive_road_safety_bill.html

Distracted drivers on their cellphones and careless motorists who knock down cyclists with their open doors will face maximum fines of $1,000 and three demerit pointsunder sweeping new road safety rules introduced Monday.

And, for the first time, motorists would be required to move over a lane for working tow trucks with lights flashing, just as they are required now with emergency vehicles.

Transportation Minister Glen Murray introduced proposed “comprehensive” legislation Monday dealing with pedestrians, truckers, motorists and cyclists.

“Our new legislation, if passed, would keep drivers, cyclists and pedestrians even safer as we get tougher with those who ignore the law,” Murray said, adding the changes have been years in the making.

$1000? Really? I guess if it's under the guise of public safety, why not make the fine $10,000? But we all know this is just a money grab.

And what's the deal with 1 meter between cyclists. That seems like a one-sided plan, what if a cyclist, for whatever reason, doesn't stay clear of the 3000 lb machine that could kill him/her?

Edited March 18, 2014 by Boges

[Black Dog]

Well they're already building the link from Union to Pearson, I would hope that's funded.

If City council could actually decide something Scarborough should get some sort of new transit whether it be LRT or a Subway. That's funded.

Scarborough Unicorn subway line is not funded.

What Toronto needs is a Downtown relief line but taxes province-wide to pay for that is insane.

I maintain, the simplest best solution is to hike the HST one or two percentage points and dedicate the revenue to regional infrastructure projects on a per capita basis.

Edited March 18, 2014 by Black Dog

[Black Dog]

So it appears the Liberals plan to make generate some revenue is to ticket people using their phones to death.

http://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark/2014/03/17/ontario_introduces_comprehensive_road_safety_bill.html

$1000? Really? I guess if it's under the guise of public safety, why not make the fine $10,000? But we all know this is just a money grab.

It's only a cash grab if its enforced. It won't be.

[Boges]

Scarbourough Unicorn subway line is not funded.

You're quoting something I said in December. No decision is going to be made on whatever will be done in Scarborough until the election. The front-runner, Chow, has said the LRT is the way to go. I can see another flip-flop should she win.

Mississauga is slated to get an LRT going up to Highway 10.

New transit is being built the government just wants a dedicated slush fund so they don't actually have to worry about being accountable about what they spend.

Many see Mississauga/Bramption as a "burb" but much of it is actually quite urban. Lots of people use public transit there and Highway 10 is the main artery through the region.

[Black Dog]

You're quoting something I said in December. No decision is going to be made on whatever will be done in Scarborough until the election. The front-runner, Chow, has said the LRT is the way to go. I can see another flip-flop should she win.

The current plan is for a partially funded subway. The alternative is a fully funded LRT.

[spicygarage]

Not to mention that a subway is only a half-solution for Scarborough commuters.

They may see a couple of minutes shaved at the Scarborough end, but when they reach Yonge/Bloor, it's the same 5-10 minute wait until they can actually get onto a train to get to their job. The Scarborough subway doesn't address the Y/B chokepoint.

The billions* saved with an LRT can be put towards the DRL, which addresses the second half of the problem for Scarborough commuters. That's why, even if it doesn't fully fund the DRL on its own, the Scarborough LRT is a full solution.

__________

* Subway: $910M more upfront

+ cancellation costs

+ construction cost overruns (100% paid by Toronto taxpayers)

+ yearly maintenance in perpetuity (100% paid by Toronto taxpayers)

+ yearly operations in perpetuity (100% paid by Toronto taxpayers)

+ interest on 30-year loan

= billions more than the LRT, over 30 years

[Boges]

Well it's official.

Metrolinx is filled of certifiable idiots.

http://www.thestar.com/news/city_hall/2014/08/19/keep_unionpearson_express_train_affordable_councillor_urges.html

Toronto Councillor Josh Matlow fears people will end up being gouged by high fares and a special tax to travel on the rapid transit line from Union Station to Pearson airport.

Matlow is looking to ensure fares are affordable — meaning less than the planned $20 to $30 per person Metrolinx is looking at charging. And he wants to scrap a $2 special fee that would compensate the Greater Toronto Airports Authority (GTAA) for lost parking revenue.

“If Toronto council stays quiet, it’s essentially supporting the wrong plan, which is unfair and unaffordable,” he told the Star.

Matlow has crafted a motion asking city council to take a strong stand at next week’s meeting.

Metrolinx, the provincial transit agency building the $456-million rail link, hasn’t announced final fares but said earlier this month that they are expected to be between $20 to $30, plus the airport fee.

The best part is the compensation to the GTAA for lost parking revenue.

Other than business people who are going to expense the fare anyway, who is this for? It's not a family of four visiting Toronto.

Let's say the fare is $25. So that's $100 each way to get to the airport and back. In London it could cost 50 to 80 pounds to get from Heathrow to Central London in a cab BUT! you can take the Tube for standard fare.

If that's the price they want to charge, they shouldn't have bothered build the thing in the first place.

Edited August 19, 2014 by Boges

[Black Dog]

Well it's official.

Metrolinx is filled of certifiable idiots.

http://www.thestar.com/news/city_hall/2014/08/19/keep_unionpearson_express_train_affordable_councillor_urges.html

The best part is the compensation to the GTAA for lost parking revenue.

Other than business people who are going to expense the fare anyway, who is this for? It's not a family of four visiting Toronto.

Let's say the fare is $25. So that's $100 each way to get to the airport and back. In London it could cost 50 to 80 pounds to get from Heathrow to Central London in a cab BUT! you can take the Tube for standard fare.

If that's the price they want to charge, they shouldn't have bothered build the thing in the first place.

This is the part that made me gag.

However, Metrolinx spokesperson Anne Marie Aikins said the airport link was not meant to be like transit. Aimed at time-pressed business executives, the trip will take 25 minutes, with trains departing every 15 minutes.

“Business travellers are used to paying the cost of a cab and this will definitely be cheaper than the cost of a cab from downtown,” Aikins said. “It’s looking to be comparable to the express bus.”

IOW: Ontario taxpayers get to subsidize a boutique service for people who can afford to take a cab or limo anyway, and who can probably write off any expense. Oh, and the train only stops at Union, so anyone going anywhere else in Toronto other than the Financial District would have to pay extra for the TTC or a cab to get to their final destination. What a disaster.

[Boges]

Check it out!

http://ca.megabus.com//default.aspx

You can get from Toronto to Buffalo's Airport for a little over $30 BOTH WAYS!!!!!

[bush_cheney2004]

Yea....but who wants to go to Buffalo ?

[Boges]

Yea....but who wants to go to Buffalo ?

Well if you're going to certain places in the US, the airfare is much cheaper. They actually cater to Canadians.