Iraq Invasion - America's Shame... 10 years on

[bush_cheney2004]

Sounds like your throwing up your arms and are almost ready to admit that the US did a bad thing.

And the U.S. will do it again if needed. Canada learned two things in 2003:

1) Canada is not the U.S.A.'s closest ally....impossible to ignore anymore

2) Canada had struck a post WW2 bottom for international relevance

The world is America's bathtub to play in with big toys:

[eyeball]

Sure...just as soon as you arrest Chretien and Martin. Lead by example....

Yep. That's the bottom line.

I would have arrested Chretien way back when he helped facilitate the construction of China's Great Fire Wall.

In any case, Canada bears as much shame as anyone for the west's diddling. Simply failing to speak out or sanction our friend's and allies for doing so would be complicity enough.

Edited March 25, 2013 by eyeball

[GostHacked]

I would have arrested Chretien way back when he helped facilitate the construction of China's Great Fire Wall.

In any case, Canada bears as much shame as anyone for the west's diddling. Simply failing to speak out or sanction our friend's and allies for doing so would be complicity enough.

There seems to be a difference here.

When us Canadians talk about the USA and when the two usual suspects reply back with ''yeah but Canada did too' .. many of us do not deny the atrocities done in Canada's name. And some of us call them out too. But we don't get the same back from the two usual suspects saying 'yep the USA made the wrong decision'. .... there will never be middle ground with the likes of these two in this specific regard.

But it's nothing more than trolling from these two when they engage in those tactics. They tend to troll harder when we actually agree with them with that they say about Canada and her actions.

Yep, Canada got involved and we simply should not have been involved. Hard to disagree there.

[WWWTT]

And the U.S. will do it again if needed. Canada learned two things in 2003:

1) Canada is not the U.S.A.'s closest ally....impossible to ignore anymore

2) Canada had struck a post WW2 bottom for international relevance

The world is America's bathtub to play in with big toys:

What does this comment have to do with my comment to AW???

[bush_cheney2004]

What does this comment have to do with my comment to AW???

U.S. foreign policy is not dependent on constraints faced by Canada, and certainly is not limited by any 'shame' individual Americans (or Canadians) may choose to 'feel'. America has the means and will to project power when it chooses to do so as part of a comprehensive foreign (and domestic) policy.

...and the U.S. will do it again.

[GostHacked]

U.S. foreign policy is not dependent on constraints faced by Canada, and certainly is not limited by any 'shame' individual Americans (or Canadians) may choose to 'feel'. America has the means and will to project power when it chooses to do so as part of a comprehensive foreign (and domestic) policy.

...and the U.S. will do it again.

Enjoy it while it lasts, the US won't be 'king' forever.

[WWWTT]

U.S. foreign policy is not dependent on constraints faced by Canada, and certainly is not limited by any 'shame' individual Americans (or Canadians) may choose to 'feel'. America has the means and will to project power when it chooses to do so as part of a comprehensive foreign (and domestic) policy.

...and the U.S. will do it again.

Good luck with that one then.

WWWTT

[WWWTT]

Enjoy it while it lasts, the US won't be 'king' forever.

Maybe 5 years tops.

After that China will be the top dog,we'll see the US start reverting back to domestic issues.

Actually they have already started their focus away from foreign issues towards domestic.

The US simply can not continue to afford their military coarse or risk suffering the same fate as the USSR

WWWTT

[GostHacked]

Maybe 5 years tops.

After that China will be the top dog,we'll see the US start reverting back to domestic issues.

I think it will be a joint effort between China and Russia. China is ramping up their navy, and Chinese warships are reported in areas never seen before in the modern age. The US is definitely taking note of the Chinese presence.

The US simply can not continue to afford their military coarse (course) or risk suffering the same fate as the USSR

They have not been able to afford for the last decade. But what we will see is a ramp in rhetoric to get another war going as it stimulated the economy. But when you only look to war to stimulate your economy, you know 100% that another war could just be the final nail in that coffin. And you know 100% that the economy is in complete shambles and is on the verge of collapse.

Trade wars, currency wars, world wars .... seems to be how things are shaping up yet again. Good thing we are taught history in schools so we don't have to repeat it.........

Edited March 25, 2013 by GostHacked

[TimG]

I think it will be a joint effort between China and Russia. China is ramping up their navy, and Chinese warships are reported in areas never seen before in the modern age.

Good grief. Russia is a state in terminal decline. It has failed to modernize its economy, its people are dying off and the biggest threat it faces is from China who may decide to annex the eastern half at some point in the future.

China is completely dependent on oil and food imports (unlike the US) and is in no position to start a major maritime conflict. China will never be more than the largest among equals on the global stage.

Edited March 25, 2013 by TimG

[bush_cheney2004]

Maybe 5 years tops.

After that China will be the top dog,we'll see the US start reverting back to domestic issues.

That's what people just like you said 5 years ago.

Actually they have already started their focus away from foreign issues towards domestic.

The US simply can not continue to afford their military coarse or risk suffering the same fate as the USSR

Wrong...China helps to finance the U.S. military directly with T-bills, as mutual interests are served. It's the same reason Canadians keep exporting 75% to the U.S. even as some whine about American foreign policy.

[bush_cheney2004]

Good grief. Russia is a state in terminal decline. It has failed to modernize its economy, its people are dying off and the biggest threat it faces is from China who may decide to annex the eastern half at some point in the future.

Agreed...the U.S. and allies have already weathered one 'great' Sino-Russo partnership, which ended with gunfire between them on their border.

China is completely dependent on oil and food imports (unlike the US) and is in no position to start a major maritime conflict. China will never be more than the largest among equals on the global stage.

China cannot project military power globally, and frankly has yet to figure out tiny Taiwan, let alone conquering the U.S. military. Unless it's a ground war in Asia, advantage U.S. war mongers.

China's policy has been to COPY the reigning superpower, not innovate on its own. I hear they want to land men/women on the Moon.

Edited March 25, 2013 by bush_cheney2004

[Guest Derek L]

Agreed...the U.S. and allies have already weathered one 'great' Sino-Russo partnership, which ended with gunfire between them on their border.

China cannot project military power globally, and frankly has yet to figure out tiny Taiwan, let alone conquering the U.S. military. Unless it's a ground war in Asia, advantage U.S. war mongers.

China's policy has been to COPY the reigning superpower, not innovate on its own. I hear they want to land men/women on the Moon.

Welcome to the 1960s

[GostHacked]

Good grief. Russia is a state in terminal decline. It has failed to modernize its economy, its people are dying off and the biggest threat it faces is from China who may decide to annex the eastern half at some point in the future.

Sure the Russian economy may not be in the best of shape, but in order to remain relevant, I can see a cooperation between the two countries. China's economy is slowing down from the high rates of growth it has seen in the last decade.

China is completely dependent on oil and food imports (unlike the US) and is in no position to start a major maritime conflict. China will never be more than the largest among equals on the global stage.

The US is dependent on foreign oil sources as much as China is. You could be right about the food imports as China does have over a billion mouths to feed, compared to the 350 Million Americans, and maybe 100 million undocumented (aka illegal) immigrants.

[Guest Derek L]

Sure the Russian economy may not be in the best of shape, but in order to remain relevant, I can see a cooperation between the two countries. China's economy is slowing down from the high rates of growth it has seen in the last decade.

Or China annexing Siberia……………doubtful but stranger things have happened (outside of Tom Clancy books)

The US is dependent on foreign oil sources as much as China is. You could be right about the food imports as China does have over a billion mouths to feed, compared to the 350 Million Americans, and maybe 100 million undocumented (aka illegal) immigrants.

No, the United States has domestic reserves………..None the less, what does that foreign oil travel in?

Hence BC’s correct assertion and nod to United States naval dominance, both on, above and under the world's oceans:

[TimG]

Sure the Russian economy may not be in the best of shape, but in order to remain relevant, I can see a cooperation between the two countries.

Co-operation only from the 'enemy of my enemy is my friend' perspective. Russia will stay on its own before it would accept any alliance with China that regulates it to junior partner.

The US is dependent on foreign oil sources as much as China is.

Only if you call Canadian oil foreign. North America will be a net exporter of energy in 15 years. China is going to need to protect those imports from the gulf more than the US soon and I think the US will be happy to let China take the heat from Muslim extremists. Edited March 25, 2013 by TimG

[GostHacked]

yes the USA has large untapped oil reserves. The Bakken oil field are touted to be on par if not more than what Saudi Arabia has. But the USA does not want to tap it, run other wells dry before they run theirs dry. Hence the need to project itself globally to secure that. Not only that the navy helps protect the greenback as the petrodollar. With other countries entertaining trading oil on a different market and also trade in another currency other than the petrodollar, that makes the USA very upset and bombs need to be dropped.

Libya is a perfect example of this. The gold Dinar was brought about and many African nations were on board with this new currency and were excited about a new market to trade oil. This would actually provide competition in oil markets and start driving the price of crude down. There is no free market here, there is only one, so a country that put oil profits back into the country and created a central bank for the people and not for the international bankers got a good dose of 'freedom'.

[GostHacked]

Co-operation only from the 'enemy of my enemy is my friend' perspective. Russia will stay on its own before it would accept any alliance with China that regulates to junior partner.Only if you call Canadian oil foreign. North America will be a net exporter of energy in 15 years. China is going to need to protect those imports from the gulf more than the US.

Canadian oil IS foreign to the USA. It's another country. Sure the agreements may make it easier for the transfer of the oil, but it is foreign by definition.

[waldo]

yes the USA has large untapped oil reserves.

reserves are not supply... as discussed in other MLW threads, some reserve numbers are highly suspect - over-hyped to spur investment. Notwithstanding the economics are not proving out... wells have high decline rates... and the early output is tied to so-called "sweet spots" that are quickly depleted, causing wells to be abandoned shortly after the start of drilling.

[waldo]

the pundit wrong about Iraq... but still has his think tank gig and speaking engagements! Life is good!

[bush_cheney2004]

And just why did American liberals support the Iraq War ? It wasn't just 'lies' about WMD:

Why Did Liberals Support the Iraq War?

.....How did a philosophy so averse to utopia and violence get hitched to
the American empire? I don’t just mean here the war in Iraq, about which
liberals disagreed, but the larger project of using the American
military to spread democracy and human rights. How did liberals, who’ve
spent the better part of three decades attacking left-wing adventurism,
wind up supporting the greatest adventure of our time?

The answer is that liberals need fear: to justify their principles,
to warn us of what happens when liberalism is abandoned. And so they are
driven abroad to confront the tyrannies that make life miserable
elsewhere, in order to derive confidence in their own, admittedly
imperfect but infinitely better, regimes. A souped-up version of
Churchill’s adage that democracy is the worst possible government except
for all the others, the liberalism of fear sends writers and fighters
to foreign lands in search of themselves and their beleaguered faith. In
the words of Ignatieff:

When policy [in the Balkans] was
driven by moral motives, it was often driven by narcissism. We
intervened not only to save others, but to save ourselves, or rather an
image of ourselves as defenders of universal decencies. We wanted to
show that the West “meant” something. This imaginary West, this
narcissistic image of ourselves, we believed was incarnated in the myth
of a multiethnic, multiconfessional Bosnia.

http://crookedtimber.org/2013/03/25/why-did-liberals-suppor-the-iraq-war/

Edited March 25, 2013 by bush_cheney2004

[WWWTT]

I think it will be a joint effort between China and Russia. China is ramping up their navy, and Chinese warships are reported in areas never seen before in the modern age. The US is definitely taking note of the Chinese presence.They have not been able to afford for the last decade. But what we will see is a ramp in rhetoric to get another war going as it stimulated the economy. But when you only look to war to stimulate your economy, you know 100% that another war could just be the final nail in that coffin. And you know 100% that the economy is in complete shambles and is on the verge of collapse.

Trade wars, currency wars, world wars .... seems to be how things are shaping up yet again. Good thing we are taught history in schools so we don't have to repeat it.........

Yes I just watched the Mandarin news from China and their Chairman is in Russia making some big deal for Russian fighter jets.

I have also seen this ramp up for the Chinese military navy and aircraft carriers.(could be wrong about the carrier)

I think the 2008 economic meltdown pretty much scared off the US to go start any more conflict.

We are seeing proof of this in regards to the US/NATO limited involvement in the Arab spring and Syria.

I think the Iraq invasion pissed off the Russians and Chinese to the point where they decided that they will somehow show their displeasure for that action in their own time and way.

WWWTT

[WWWTT]

Good grief. Russia is a state in terminal decline. It has failed to modernize its economy, its people are dying off and the biggest threat it faces is from China who may decide to annex the eastern half at some point in the future.

China is completely dependent on oil and food imports (unlike the US) and is in no position to start a major maritime conflict. China will never be more than the largest among equals on the global stage.

China and Russia are currently trying to strengthen their ties.

The US would be very happy to see the two fight each other down.

In reverse,the US would hate to see the two increase/expediate trade and commerce.

WWWTT

[WWWTT]

China is completely dependent on oil and food imports (unlike the US) and is in no position to start a major maritime conflict. China will never be more than the largest among equals on the global stage.

Provide link about the food imports

WWWTT

[WWWTT]

the pundit wrong about Iraq... but still has his think tank gig and speaking engagements! Life is good!

Man that's freekin funny!!!

Bush must feel real dirty all the time,hahahaha!

WWWTT