German town goes off the grid with alternative energy.

[kairos]

Too bad our country is run by dinosaurs in the pockets of big oil trying to get every last drop out to see to China while trashing the planet. Other countries are moving into the 21st century.

http://www.treehugger.com/environmental-policy/town-goes-grid-achieves-energy-independence.html

[Peanutbutter]

Too bad our country is run by dinosaurs in the pockets of big oil trying to get every last drop out to see to China while trashing the planet. Other countries are moving into the 21st century.

http://www.treehugger.com/environmental-policy/town-goes-grid-achieves-energy-independence.html

Even if Canada didn't use as much fossil fuels as it does we would still have to get that oil out of the ground to boost our GDP. Are you making the case for not extracting any oil whatsoever?

I'm in favor of using green or alternative fuel sources and I hope one day these fuels will be able to over take the use of fossil fuels but that is not the case today.

I for one would like to see every single house and building in the country to have solar panels a top of it, this would greatly reduce our reliance on other fuel sources.

As time goes on and electric car technology gets cheaper and better I'm sure we'll see more hybrid or fully electric cars in the not so distant future. Say 10 years from now?

It's not possible to convert Canada's entire energy stream overnight which is what you seem to be wanting. It takes time and billions of dollars of investment. Where will these billions come from?

[TimG]

Too bad our country is run by dinosaurs in the pockets of big oil trying to get every last drop out to see to China while trashing the planet. Other countries are moving into the 21st century.

First, Germany has extremely generous subsidies for renewable power there is no way this town could have done what it did without such subsidies so the quoted electrical rates are basically lies. Second, it appears that this town of 150 people are willing to live with power outages which means they are making large sacrifices in lifestyle to make this project work.

Both problems illustrate why such examples are really nothing but theme parks created to impress gullible greenies. There is no way this example could be deployed at a scale that would make any difference.

Edited February 19, 2013 by TimG

[MiddleClassCentrist]

First, Germany has extremely generous subsidies for renewable power there is no way this town could have done what it did without such subsidies so the quoted electrical rates are basically lies. Second, it appears that this town of 150 people are willing to live with power outages which means they are making large sacrifices in lifestyle to make this project work.

Both problems illustrate why such examples are really nothing but theme parks created to impress gullible greenies. There is no way this example could be deployed at a scale that would make any difference.

I wouldn't say they are just theme parks. But, it would require a significant paradigm shift for city dwellers to adopt the idea of environmentalism over convenience.

I still prefer the idea of mutant, fast growth algae that sucks up CO2 from the air... and then can be processed into fuel. 100% carbon neutral and fits our current idea of energy use.

[TimG]

I still prefer the idea of mutant, fast growth algae that sucks up CO2 from the air... and then can be processed into fuel. 100% carbon neutral and fits our current idea of energy use.

Do the math: calculate how much algae would have to be grown and processed (along with the water, fertilizer and energy inputs) to make any significant contribution to our energy needs and you will find that it is not a remotely plausible solution at this time.

Edited February 20, 2013 by TimG

[shortlived]

this is very acheivable. With the solar tiles and water and wind mills nearly all our energy needs would be met.

Solar tiles cost little more than the cost of reshingling ones home. New homes could also provide these. Even windows are solar chargers these days.

Canada is remarkably energy inefficient, but this is because people don't care. No one want to "pay ahead" the cost of energy efficiency. I am off grid but I am also a low energy consumer, and I have a battery bill coming up hopefully next year or the year after at the soonest. Due to my low energy lifestyle 250 watts cells in capture is enough for me, even though I also have a small windmill available that could also supliment the system. Overall though I'm one person but a family set up would cost perhaps 10,000 or less if doing it budget. If anyone is interested by all means contact me. It is remarkably easy. the only hard part is having enough room and setting up solar aligned "shelving". it might cost less depending on how much energy you use but this depends on your needs. 100 wats can run $200 and less these days for laminants that are very resilient.

Too bad our country is run by dinosaurs in the pockets of big oil trying to get every last drop out to see to China while trashing the planet. Other countries are moving into the 21st century.

http://www.treehugger.com/environmental-policy/town-goes-grid-achieves-energy-independence.html

Edited February 20, 2013 by shortlived

[cybercoma]

It's sunnier in Germany too. At least that's what FOX News tells me.

[shortlived]

It's sunnier in Germany too. At least that's what FOX News tells me.

The further north you are the more luminesence.... most of canada is as high or higher than germany.

as northern europe (denmark) is about 50 degrees north.. which most of Canada is above 50 degrees. SO Canda has more sun than germany. It is weird that daylight hours are weird depending on what latitude you are at.

http://astro.unl.edu/classaction/animations/coordsmotion/daylighthoursexplorer.html

Solar energy isn't exactly the same as how hot it makes it. As heat is at one wavelength, photvoltalics can be at others. Although there are some solar heat systems. Like solar water heaters for instance.

There are factors like "time of year" lattitude, and angle of panel alignment to the sun wave direction.

Methane is the ideal base heat source because it is the fuel that is created from our waste products. If you are wondering why climate change is happening, it is because we are unlocking all the carbon that is trapped in the earth. Our wastes leak methane anyway. The coldest places in canada are now leaching methane from their soggy soil, all that must be done is collection of the methane being released, and "bottling it" for winter use.

It is mind numbing that our non renewable resources are being eatenup when we have ample renewable resources available.

Edited February 20, 2013 by shortlived

[kairos]

Norway Denmark and many other countries use renewable for their immense amounts of their energy. I'm from B.C. actually our energy is something like 95% renewable we use hydro and sell millions abroad. The fact is oil is not necessary except for the greedy.

[Peanutbutter]

Norway Denmark and many other countries use renewable for their immense amounts of their energy. I'm from B.C. actually our energy is something like 95% renewable we use hydro and sell millions abroad. The fact is oil is not necessary except for the greedy.

So you would just leave the oil in the ground instead oil using it as a revenue stream? Interesting. Do you feel the same way about gold, silver, zinc, copper, etc?

[TimG]

Norway Denmark and many other countries use renewable for their immense amounts of their energy. I'm from B.C. actually our energy is something like 95% renewable we use hydro and sell millions abroad. The fact is oil is not necessary except for the greedy.

So please explain what government programs should be cut to make up for the lost revenue? Welfare? Healthcare? If you can't explain exactly what you would sacrifice personally in order to give up those revenues then you are a shameless hypocrite.

Edited February 20, 2013 by TimG

[shortlived]

Well first off, just pulling the plug is never the answer, overnight revolution is dangerous, and can cause instability. The key is to migrate to autarkism this means producing what we need. Canada has tons of resources, we really don't need to import anything. Although, as stated this is about growing resources. The problem is we get say 50% of our revenue from Oil, we then see 30% of that consume people who then do not produce goods that Canadians need. Since we loose our ability to create our own goods, we become dependent on oil revenue to meet our needs, and we become "unable to provide for ourselves"

A responsible government would set policy to insure we provide for ourselves, and allocate any revenue from exported goods for infrastructure programs that provide for self provisioning. This simply isn't the case. Instead our infrastructure is sold off for monetary injections, which are soon spent, on paying off loans that were financially inprudent to take on in the first place. Canada has a long way to go but oil dependence is not the path to lasting freedom.

This goes hand in hand with the IP issue, IP laws need to be rejected. A compromise may be 1 or 2 year exclusive use allowance, but in todays world we can't BS around progress, we don't have the time.

Edited February 20, 2013 by shortlived

[kairos]

So please explain what government programs should be cut to make up for

the lost revenue? Welfare? Healthcare? If you can't explain exactly what

you would sacrifice personally in order to give up those revenues then

you are a shameless hypocrite.

The miilitary.

Massive environment destroying oil production shouldn't be cut overnight. Canada should get off the grid entirely (in 10 years) and then cut it entirely while the greedy fat bitches weep.

Edited February 20, 2013 by kairos

[TimG]

The miilitary.

Does not count unless you are working for the military. I asked what *you* would sacrifice personally. There is nothing more contemptible than a moralist who demands that only other people make sacrifices to preserve his virtue. Prove this description does not apply to you by listing the things that you want that you would sacrifice. I bet you can't...

Edited February 20, 2013 by TimG

[Wilber]

Average yearly daylight is the same regardless of latitude but the farther from the equator, the greater the variation throughout the year. Feldheim is about the same latitude as Saskatoon so at least 80% of Canada's population lives south of Feldheim. There is no question of any developed country going off the grid completely. For one thing, Feldheim's approach just isn't possible for large urban areas where population densities are high but it is a direction the world needs to explore. There has to be serious discussion about the cost of cleaner energy sources vs the long term environmental costs of continuing to use increasing amounts of CO2 emitting sources. We are going to pay now or later regardless.

[kairos]

I'll personally sacrifice the oil companies on the altar of the dustbin of history.

[TimG]

I'll personally sacrifice the oil companies on the altar of the dustbin of history.

IOW - you are one of those contemptible people who think that only others should make sacrifices for your morality.

[kairos]

Bullshit switching to alternative energy is not a sacrifice its an intelligent decision. As it is I'm having to sacrifice my own lungs for assholes like you guys as I'm forced to breathe your toxic air and drink your toxic waters.

Edited February 20, 2013 by kairos

[TimG]

Bullshit switching to alternative energy is not a sacrifice its an intelligent decision.

No - it is a sacrifice because you are demanding laws that take away jobs from other other people.

As it is I'm having to sacrifice my own lungs for assholes like you guys as I'm forced to breathe your toxic air and drink your toxic waters.

A gross exaggeration of the reality. Yet you benefit from the free healthcare and education that the society is able to provide because of the resource industry that you want to shut down. Sorry. You have no right to take away the ability of other people to earn a living. Start a business - start paying for others healthcare and education and then you might have a valid reason to complain.

Edited February 20, 2013 by TimG

[Signals.Cpl]

The miilitary.

And what happens when you suddenly need the military to assist BC after an earthquake? Disbanding the military is a great suggestion if you lack common sensem and foresight...

[GostHacked]

So you would just leave the oil in the ground instead oil using it as a revenue stream? Interesting. Do you feel the same way about gold, silver, zinc, copper, etc?

if there is no need for oil, how does one make money on it?

[GostHacked]

No - it is a sacrifice because you are demanding laws that take away jobs from other other people.

A gross exaggeration of the reality. Yet you benefit from the free healthcare and education that the society is able to provide because of the resource industry that you want to shut down. Sorry. You have no right to take away the ability of other people to earn a living. Start a business - start paying for others healthcare and education and then you might have a valid reason to complain.

Let the market decide. If renewable energies are popular and there is a less demand for fossil fuels, then the market dynamics are going to change. People will need to learn new skills in order to be employable. This has been true for a very long time.

And healthcare is anything but free, you pay your taxes to allow healthcare to be in the state that it is.

I am not willing to keep a company alive just for the sake of saving jobs if the company is being subsidized because it is no longer a viable money making option. Think of it as a bailout, otherwise the company would go bankrupt.

[Accountability Now]

The key thing being missed here is that Feldheim uses a combination of solar AND wind energy. Most places in Canada don't see the wind power that Feldheim does (perhaps southern Alberta or the Windsor area do), therefore erecting large turbines at high costs (both capital and maintenance) don't make sense.

The other key thing is that our electrical grid is not entirely predictable and doesn't have the ability to store energy. Energy sources such as tidal, hydro, solar and wind power do not have a switch that we can control where as burning of fossil fuels does provide that convenience. Therefore, we can never be entirely reliable on these sources. We can however use them to significantly reduce our need for coal or oil and possible replace the fossil fuels as a primary source of energy.

[Wilber]

Hydro systems do store energy. It is stored in the water retained by dams but is of course limited by the size of the reservoirs and the speed at which they can be filled. Output is regulated by the amount of water either directed through the turbines in the power station or allowed to bypass them.

Portability is the chief advantage of fossil fuel systems. It is capable of producing large amounts of dependable electricity anywhere you can can transport the fuel. At present, it's really the only system capable of doing so. Nuclear is the only other thing that comes close.

[Guest Derek L]

Let the market decide. If renewable energies are popular and there is a less demand for fossil fuels, then the market dynamics are going to change. People will need to learn new skills in order to be employable. This has been true for a very long time.

And healthcare is anything but free, you pay your taxes to allow healthcare to be in the state that it is.

I am not willing to keep a company alive just for the sake of saving jobs if the company is being subsidized because it is no longer a viable money making option. Think of it as a bailout, otherwise the company would go bankrupt.

Agreed 100%……….As a personal observation, look at the increasing number of hybrid & compact cars on the roads today contrasted with 5-10 years ago……One could also look at putting further fuel taxes on “personal vehicles” in urban centers, then dedicating said revenue stream to further, smart and targeted, infrastructure & mass transit upgrades………….For the life of me, I don’t understand why the BC Government didn’t incorporate light/high speed rail into ongoing upgrades to hwy 1 and the Port Mann bridge replacement in the lower mainland……………..A fast commuter line from say Abbotsford to the Vancouver/Burnaby border, akin to what one would see in Japan, run down tracks along the center median, with stops incorporated along the way at major on-ramps with integral bus loops/hubs to Skytrain would have only made sense………….