Signals.Cpl Posted February 7, 2013 Report Share Posted February 7, 2013 How about the people that have a lack of respect for the law or humans lives. Values and morales baby, that is very important to becoming a canadian. All I am saying is people need to respect the fact thay have a canadian citizenship, and act accordingly or face the consquenses. Born here you stay, not born here you go. IMO a canadian citizenship is worth more then being a prize in a cracker jack box. What about those "Canadians" that were born here but moved away when they were children? They don't speak English or French yet they are "Canadian" while those who work hard to make this country a good place to live are not Canadian because they were born elsewhere? Talk about putting an idiotic criteria... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Signals.Cpl Posted February 7, 2013 Report Share Posted February 7, 2013 Do you still have dual citizenship? If so, what is making you hold on to your citizenship of your home country? Because I can? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted February 7, 2013 Report Share Posted February 7, 2013 Because I can? You must have specific reasons. Not trying to be a dick or bash you here, just trying to understand why someone would move to Canada (and serve in our military) and get citizenship while keeping their citizen status of their home country. I don't support dual citizenship, and I would ask if someone wants to enter our military that they completely give up their home country's citizenship. I guess it's a matter of where/who your loyalties are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g_bambino Posted February 7, 2013 Report Share Posted February 7, 2013 How about the people that have a lack of respect for the law or humans lives. We already have laws that deal with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Signals.Cpl Posted February 7, 2013 Report Share Posted February 7, 2013 You must have specific reasons. Because I can... that is my reason. What is the reason to denounce another citizenship that might prove beneficial in future endeavours? Not trying to be a dick or bash you here, just trying to understand why someone would move to Canada (and serve in our military) and get citizenship while keeping their citizen status of their home country. Well because a dual citizenship could prove useful at some point when I leave the military if I decide to do business in eastern europe. A Dual citizenship gives a great advantage when doing business with the nation in question be it Europe, Asia, Africa or the Americas. I don't support dual citizenship, and I would ask if someone wants to enter our military that they completely give up their home country's citizenship. I guess it's a matter of where/who your loyalties are. I do support dual citizenship especially when it concerns up and coming nations in Asia and South America which could prove to be major trade partners in the future. In some places representing a Canadian company and going in as a "local" gives you a distinct advantage over going in as a Canadian representative of a Canadian company. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted February 7, 2013 Report Share Posted February 7, 2013 Because I can... that is my reason. What is the reason to denounce another citizenship that might prove beneficial in future endeavours? I am going to pick on you a bit here... apologies in advance. So it's a matter of convenience. Where do your loyalties lie? Well because a dual citizenship could prove useful at some point when I leave the military if I decide to do business in eastern europe. A Dual citizenship gives a great advantage when doing business with the nation in question be it Europe, Asia, Africa or the Americas. As I said, I would require anyone entering the military holding dual citizenship to relinquish their former country's citizenship and be solely Canadian. I do support dual citizenship especially when it concerns up and coming nations in Asia and South America which could prove to be major trade partners in the future. In some places representing a Canadian company and going in as a "local" gives you a distinct advantage over going in as a Canadian representative of a Canadian company. So it provides you some benefits, and then yes you are in a different class of citizenship compared to simply holding a Canadian citizenship. You want to be treated the same and hold the view that you are just as Canadian as someone born here, but yet you do not want to give up your former country's citizenship. If you want to be as Canadian as the people born here, then I guess put your money where your mouth is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Signals.Cpl Posted February 7, 2013 Report Share Posted February 7, 2013 I am going to pick on you a bit here... apologies in advance. So it's a matter of convenience. Where do your loyalties lie? My loyalties lie here but being a dual citizen allows me to conduct business in much more "friendly" environment rather than going as the Canadian. As I said, I would require anyone entering the military holding dual citizenship to relinquish their former country's citizenship and be solely Canadian. I am against that, but if that were a requirement I would do so. So it provides you some benefits, and then yes you are in a different class of citizenship compared to simply holding a Canadian citizenship. You want to be treated the same and hold the view that you are just as Canadian as someone born here, but yet you do not want to give up your former country's citizenship. I am not obligated to do so, and it could prove beneficial in the future. People in Canada are not obligated to compulsory military service and as such people choose to serve or not to serve, likewise I am not obligated to give up my citizenship therefore I will choose wether to do so or not. If you want to be as Canadian as the people born here, then I guess put your money where your mouth is. I put my life where my mouth is, I think that counts just as much... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted February 7, 2013 Report Share Posted February 7, 2013 I have to agree with Gosthacked on this one, I'm not in favour of dual citizenship either. I think for those that are lucky enough to have the option should pick one or the other.....For lots of reasons, there are currently thousands of Canadians who have traveled back to their orginal countries of orgin to engage in a conflict. Some with legitimate armies, others with freedom fighters , others in terrorist org's or at least classified as such by the west..... Having one citizenship would certianly make it easier to make one law that blankets all Canadian citizens, preventing any Canadian citizen from entering a conflict other than in the service of Canada.... It would answer the problem of Citizens of convience, those living / working in another country for long extended times, look at the lebanon evac for a prime example. many of those dual citizens had been out of canada for more than 5 years, no intention of returning until the shit hit the fan... I think one of the reasons they are pushing for the revoking of Canadian citizenship is because those persons who are inclined to terrorist activites or other illegal activities for that matter can travel alot more freely when they do so on a Canadian passport. Just a question does it state on your passport that you are a dual citizen and what the other citizenship is ? It's the few that are screwing it up for the many..... And i also am a firm believer that just being born here should not automatically give you citizenship, And there should be more to getting a canadian citizenship than there is now....The Khadrs is a perfect example.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keepitsimple Posted February 7, 2013 Report Share Posted February 7, 2013 Because I can? Signals: the fact that you weren't born here and have served our country honorably as a Canadian - should make you really upset about those who come here with no loyalty and abuse our citizenship. This is not about two tiered citizenship. It's about getting rid of people who should never have been citizens to begin with. You of all people should be the most angry at this abuse. So tell us - how do you feel about these specific abuses - abuses that will be ultimately be carefully decided on a case-by-case basis. Do you not think that some rules should be in place or not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Signals.Cpl Posted February 7, 2013 Report Share Posted February 7, 2013 I have to agree with Gosthacked on this one, I'm not in favour of dual citizenship either. I think for those that are lucky enough to have the option should pick one or the other.....For lots of reasons, there are currently thousands of Canadians who have traveled back to their orginal countries of orgin to engage in a conflict. Some with legitimate armies, others with freedom fighters , others in terrorist org's or at least classified as such by the west..... If that were the law then most would follow follow the law and drop their other citizenship. I think one of the reasons they are pushing for the revoking of Canadian citizenship is because those persons who are inclined to terrorist activites or other illegal activities for that matter can travel alot more freely when they do so on a Canadian passport. You don't need a second citizenship to be able to travel freely though. Just a question does it state on your passport that you are a dual citizen and what the other citizenship is ? I don't think it does but then again my up to date passport is Canadian as the other one expired 10 years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Signals.Cpl Posted February 7, 2013 Report Share Posted February 7, 2013 (edited) Signals: the fact that you weren't born here and have served our country honorably as a Canadian - should make you really upset about those who come here with no loyalty and abuse our citizenship. I am not saying anything in support of those who abuse their Canadian citizenship, my issue is in being considered a second class citizen due to my place of birth. I am not nor do I ever intent to be a terrorist and I am a law abiding citizen who pays his taxes but just because I as an immigrant and can have my citizenship stripped makes me a second class citizen. There are plenty of other ways that can fix the problem without making two Canada's. This is not about two tiered citizenship. It's about getting rid of people who should never have been citizens to begin with. Unless you can prove that they intended to commit the crime at the time they became a citizen it would automatically make citizenship for Canadians and "Canadians". You of all people should be the most angry at this abuse. So tell us - how do you feel about these specific abuses - abuses that will be ultimately be carefully decided on a case-by-case basis. Do you not think that some rules should be in place or not? I have never argued that we should not do something about the problem, we should do everything in our power to fix this problem short of making immigrants a second tier citizens. Solutions could be some of the following: *eliminating dual citizenship *taxing people that live out side of Canada for prolonged periods of time *Tightening up the rules for treason and the punishments so that they could be applied to those who commit them. *Increase the wait time for citizenship and many more... Edited February 7, 2013 by Signals.Cpl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guyser Posted February 7, 2013 Report Share Posted February 7, 2013 And i also am a firm believer that just being born here should not automatically give you citizenship, And there should be more to getting a canadian citizenship than there is now....The Khadrs is a perfect example.... I would love to hear some ideas as to what would constitute getting citizenship if not for being born here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g_bambino Posted February 7, 2013 Report Share Posted February 7, 2013 (edited) I would love to hear some ideas as to what would constitute getting citizenship if not for being born here. And what are you before obtaining citizenship? A permanent resident? Regardless of what you are--tourist, on a long-term visa, permanent resident, or citizen--when in Canada, you are accorded all basic rights and any others mentioned in the Charter. [ed.: +] Edited February 7, 2013 by g_bambino Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guyser Posted February 7, 2013 Report Share Posted February 7, 2013 And what are you before obtaining citizenship? A permanent resident? Regardless of what you are--tourist, permanent resident, or citizen--when in Canada, you are accorded all basic rights and any others mentioned in the Charter. Well......for most of us we were fertilized eggs and a semi-permanent resident of mom's womb. Eviction notice came and a few hours later i was granted my citizenship. As for the rights, you should know I am in your boat on this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted February 7, 2013 Report Share Posted February 7, 2013 If that were the law then most would follow follow the law and drop their other citizenship. I If that were the law then most would follow follow the law and drop their other citizenship. I Should have been clearer sorry, Not all passports travel easy, take Isrealis traveling in other middle eastern countries, also take middle eastern traveling in western countries.....having a Canadian passport allows you to travel easier in almost every country.... ..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g_bambino Posted February 7, 2013 Report Share Posted February 7, 2013 Well......for most of us we were fertilized eggs and a semi-permanent resident of mom's womb. *Flashlight shines in* <German accent> May ve see your papers?...</German accent> Really, I was just adding my question to yours to Army Guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted February 7, 2013 Report Share Posted February 7, 2013 I would love to hear some ideas as to what would constitute getting citizenship if not for being born here. I agree with longer wait times, during those wait times the new born would be given citizenship the same as the parents....if born after parents become Canadian citizenship then fine.... There are loop holes with our laws for instance a new born, born on a flight orginating or landing in Canada is automatically offered Canadian citizenship, Or immigrants awaiting to become citizens, off spring born in Canada during this time are considered Canadian at birth. Same goes for foreign workers who have new borns in our country, their new borns are given Canadian citizenship... And yet years back there was a court case of a Canadian Military couple who's son was born in germany had to apply for their sons Canadian citizenship.....Not sure if that law has been changed....Both were Canadian citizens, and yet had to go to court to get their son into the country and his rightful citizenship. It should not be automatic, nor should it be so hard to strip... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlight Graham Posted February 7, 2013 Report Share Posted February 7, 2013 (edited) Possibly should do away with dual citizenship period. Many have used Canada as a safe haven and a citizenship of convenience rather than the actual desire to live in Canada and revoke their other citizenship. Agreed. Dual citizenship should be eliminated for all adults at least. Pick the country you pledge your loyalty to and that's it. None of these conflicts of interest allowed, no citizenship of convenience. Kids with parents of different nationalities poses a bit of a problem, but maybe the parents should decide at birth, or make the child choose at age 18.. Making an immigrant or born dual-citizen (like Stephane Dion) revoke their previous citizenship(s) would prove their ultimate loyalty to this country. Edited February 7, 2013 by Moonlight Graham Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g_bambino Posted February 7, 2013 Report Share Posted February 7, 2013 Dual citizenship should be eliminated for all adults at least. Pick the country you pledge your loyalty to and that's it. What kind of loyalty are you talking about here? The only loyalty that citizenship requires is to the state's authority and a promise to abide by its laws (which is expected of anyone within the state's jurisdiction, whether citizen or not). One can pledge that kind of loyalty to multiple states and their laws. But, I suspect you're speaking more about an emotional loyalty, which has nothing to do with citizenship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlight Graham Posted February 7, 2013 Report Share Posted February 7, 2013 . If I had my way, a born canadian doing terrorist activities overseas, would be stripped also. How? UN members have signed into international aw that everyone has a right to citizenship of a country. You strip a born Canadian and what will their citizenship be then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guyser Posted February 7, 2013 Report Share Posted February 7, 2013 I agree with longer wait times, during those wait times the new born would be given citizenship the same as the parents....if born after parents become Canadian citizenship then fine.... Let me get this straight... a newborn of Canuck born and bred parents waits...but a newborn to parents who became citizens are automatically included? There are loop holes with our laws for instance a new born, born on a flight orginating or landing in Canada is automatically offered Canadian citizenship, No, not unless both parents are Canadian citizens. If a German couple land for a holiday and give birth, the baby is not a Canuck Or immigrants awaiting to become citizens, off spring born in Canada during this time are considered Canadian at birth. Same goes for foreign workers who have new borns in our country, their new borns are given Canadian citizenship... Yes and no. Immigrants in the class of permanent status waiting for Canuck citizenship who have a baby , the baby gets it automatically. Foreign workers do not get their baby a Canuck passport. Same goes for embassy and consulate members. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_nationality_law And yet years back there was a court case of a Canadian Military couple who's son was born in germany had to apply for their sons Canadian citizenship.....Not sure if that law has been changed....Both were Canadian citizens, and yet had to go to court to get their son into the country and his rightful citizenship. It should not be automatic, nor should it be so hard to strip... Then something is lost in your post. The baby automatically is a Canadian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guyser Posted February 7, 2013 Report Share Posted February 7, 2013 Can anyone point to an actual problem with having dual citizenship ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Derek L Posted February 7, 2013 Report Share Posted February 7, 2013 You must have specific reasons. Not trying to be a dick or bash you here, just trying to understand why someone would move to Canada (and serve in our military) and get citizenship while keeping their citizen status of their home country. I don't support dual citizenship, and I would ask if someone wants to enter our military that they completely give up their home country's citizenship. I guess it's a matter of where/who your loyalties are. I disagree on precedent……..My late father in law joined the RAF in early ‘40 when they were desperately in need of pilots and aircrew then returned to the SAAF after it was modernized in late ‘42.………Or my own Father left the RN FAA with an opportunity to join the RCN…………..And even today, countries like Australia and New Zealand are actively trying to recruit serving members in the other Anglosphere nations……Just as the Americans offer a faster path to citizenship to foreign nationals willing to serve. It depends on the on many differing circumstances, and shouldn’t be a precluded option for recruitment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 8, 2013 Report Share Posted February 8, 2013 Can anyone point to an actual problem with having dual citizenship ? Lots of technical problems, from incompatible citizenship oaths to mandatory military service (just ask Maher Arar). Extradition, taxes, conscription, child custody in divorce, and any other number of jurisdictional issues determined by citizenship. As a theoretical math question, if dual citizenship is OK, why not n-citizenships ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonam Posted February 8, 2013 Report Share Posted February 8, 2013 As a theoretical math question, if dual citizenship is OK, why not n-citizenships ? It's ok too. Getting a citizenship takes a long time in most countries. If someone wants to spend 3-10 years in one country after another, collect their citizenship, and then move on to get their next one, thus accumulating maybe 10 or so citizenships over their lifetime, why not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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