Republicans Seek To Criminalize Post Rape Abortion

msj · January 27, 2013

So Obama is speaking in "Republican math" now? back at'cha.

When Obama referenced 900 deaths I think it was a back of the envelope thing: in 2011 ~11,000 homicides therefore ~900 per month.

In reality, in 2011 it is ~2,500 per month for all gun related deaths and I agree with Waldo's post above as to why people like you have this need to diminish deaths from suicide (or even accidents - as if accidents wouldn't be prevented and as if accidents aren't as tragic as suicide or murder).

At any rate, if I'm expected to believe the numbers when they are being presented as how bad things are in the U.S., then I will accept them when they show the opposite. You think there's any reason todo otherwise? That's a rhetorical question, fyi.....

Nope, when the numbers come in for 2013 (which will probably be sometime in 2015) they will show about 11,000 homicides from guns and about 30,000 total gun deaths and you will just be business as usual, nothing to see here, and you can ignore the historical trends and make up your own math because it will make you, and your Republican friends, feel better.

Edited January 27, 2013 by msj

WWWTT · January 27, 2013

Edited to emphasize that the figures are for total gun deaths, including suicides and accidental shootings, not the number of murders by gun - as WWWTT presented it.

Suicide is still murder.

It is murder of your own life!No less violent or horrific!

I find it borderline disgusting how easily you dismiss the horror and deep sadness of suicide!

WWWTT

The_Squid · January 28, 2013

Suicide is still murder.

It is murder of your own life!No less violent or horrific!

I find it borderline disgusting how easily you dismiss the horror and deep sadness of suicide!

WWWTT

That's silly. Killing yourself is not murder.

msj · January 28, 2013

Killing yourself is not murder.

No, but it is still tragic.

WIP · January 28, 2013

Odds are that if these guys are politically active - they're Republicans, because this is the kind of religion that has spawned the modern Republican Party's social policies:

Christian radio hosts: Feminists are ‘selfish, narcissistic, family-destroying whores’

“Now remember, the goal is that these women have to be independent,” Swanson said on

a show devoted to the idea that rising college costs were contributing to an alleged spike in prostitution

. “The goal is lots and lots of birth control. The goal is lots and lots and lots of fornication. The goal is abortion. The day-after pill will help. And it will help a lot. Remember, the goal is to get that girl a job because she needs no stinkin’ husband, she’s got the fascist corporation and government-mandated insurance programs and socialist welfare that will take care of her womb to tomb. Who needs a cotton-pickin’ husband? Who needs a family? That’s pretty much the worldview that’s dominating, my friends. That’s what the college is all about.”

“Because her feminist professors have told her her husband will abuse her, she will be like a slave to him,” Buehner agreed. “Instead she will just go to the slave market and sell herself, at least sell her body, to the highest bidder. See, that’s much, much better!”

“Right, you have the good-looking ones,” Buehner explained. “The other ones are those who we should say are, um, attractive-deficient. … These are the kinds that will look for careers mostly likely in academia. … They can get jobs in the government bureaucracy, they can work as an FDA administrator, or you can actually run the EPA if you want, or academia. Academia’s actually the best place because you can be angry, ugly and you can also get tenure. It’s great, it’s the big trifecta.”

“You mean there will be angrier angry feminists,” Buehner shot back. “I believe history will go back to this period of time and will look at feminism and say there was a time in which women lost the love of their children. They no longer cared about having children, they no longer loved their children, they no longer loved their husbands, where for all of history women very much cared about protecting the family. Now they only cared about themselves. They were riled up into a froth about how they were victims of society, patriarchal society, and they decided to become selfish, narcissistic, family-destroying whores.”

Edited January 28, 2013 by WIP

WWWTT · January 28, 2013

That's silly. Killing yourself is not murder.

Really?Then what is murder?

Keep in mind there are several types of murder,and suicide is only one of those types.

WWWTT

Mighty AC · January 28, 2013

Interesting that WWWTT doesn't use that as his defense, eh? It appears as if he's been "saved by the bell," so to speak, since co-sponsors subsequently signed the bill*, which he obviously didn't know about himself. My criticism stands. From the info he had, he purposely misrepresented the situation from the knowledge he had - just as his claim that "since the Conn. school shooting 900 Americans have been murdered by guns" is not the way it is. It's this type of misrepresentation that I take issue with. But, as I said, you gave WWWTT a save. Too bad there is no such "save" regarding his claim that 900 Americans have been murdered by guns since the Conn. school shooting.

*Who also quickly backed off - this isn't going to be an issue, supported by "Republicans"

I think you are referring to me, not WWWTT. I didn't "back down", I was just away for the weekend. Your assertion that this nutjobbery is limited to a handful of republicans is absurd. The sheer volume of anachronistic, misogynistic hate that spewed from the party during the recent primaries and election campaign was incredible. Every group has a fringe element, but the Republican party has given its extremists a seat at the head table. I hope the party's embarrassing performance sparks prompts it to purge the wingnuts, allowing it focus on something other than religion, sex and lady parts.

bush_cheney2004 · January 28, 2013

..... I hope the party's embarrassing performance sparks prompts it to purge the wingnuts, allowing it focus on something other than religion, sex and lady parts.

Yes, those silly Republicans...wasting their time long ago on abolition, black suffrage, and women's suffrage. How embarrassing.

Mighty AC · January 28, 2013

Wouldn't it be nice if they stopped pandering to the extreme Christian right and returned to more important mainstream issues? In my opinion, their strategy to co opt the religious vote successfully secured some numbers, but has now taken a serious toll on the party's credibility. Stories, of the ilk cited here are not rare events anymore. I think the loud voice they've given the fringe is scaring away the middle and the party needs to end the courtship.

bush_cheney2004 · January 28, 2013

.... Stories, of the ilk cited here are not rare events anymore. I think the loud voice they've given the fringe is scaring away the middle and the party needs to end the courtship.

And I think you are ignoring the "core values" of the Republican Party, without which it would have never existed.

Shady · January 28, 2013

Except the bank meltdowns problems weren't caused by "republican ideological" obsessions. The were caused by as much by democrats like Barney Frank with their own ideological obessions who opposed reforms to Fanny/Freddie in 2003.

Exactly. Sometimes I think that these people lie on purpose. Bush didn't deregulate anything. And tax cuts didn't cause the housing crisis.

Shady · January 28, 2013

Suicide is still murder.

Are you going to count abortions too?

-TSS- · January 28, 2013

I thought the election's over. I mean every time an election is coming up this issue also crops up.

WWWTT · January 28, 2013

Are you going to count abortions too?

Depends when the fetus or unborn child is given rights by being deemed an individual person.

Or if the fetus is still part of the mothers body and is not yet a seperate individual with its own rights.

Not difficult to understand.

WWWTT

Shady · January 28, 2013

Depends when the fetus or unborn child is given rights by being deemed an individual person.

What does that have to do with anything? If something is living, the fact some people choose not to give it any rights is irrelevant. Stop ignoring science.

Shady · January 28, 2013

I thought the election's over. I mean every time an election is coming up this issue also crops up.

Yep, doesn't matter the candidate. The issue is brought up by Democrats in order to distract and divide.

guyser · January 28, 2013

What does that have to do with anything?

Oh pretty much everything.

Not hard to follow really.

If something is living, the fact some people choose not to give it any rights is irrelevant. Stop ignoring science.

Stop ignoring reality . Science doesnt have much of anything to do with this, unless and of course, someones argument falls flat on his face the moment he uses it.....psst that would be you.

Here ya go

shady.....

Culpable homicide is defined as causing the death of a human being,

See how that works?

January 29, 2013

Suicide is still murder.

No, it isn't. Murder is the unlawful taking of another's life. And it's against the law. Suicide is not.

It is murder of your own life!No less violent or horrific!

Really. So we have someone who wants to die and makes that decision regarding their own life - and we have someone who doesn't want to die and someone takes their life. And you see them both of those situations as the same?

I find it borderline disgusting how easily you dismiss the horror and deep sadness of suicide!

I find it totally disgusting how you are taking the fact that I pointed out that suicide isn't murder and turning it into a personal attack.

Fact is, suicide is not murder - and I'm sure Canada had it's share of suicides since the Connecticut school shooting, too. I dare say, in light of the fact that Canada's suicide rate is comparable to ours, that just as many Canadians took their lives during that same time period as did Americans. Where's your outrage? Your horror? Your deep sadness? I seem to have missed it, as I've seen you go on and on about gun deaths in America.

Edited January 29, 2013 by American Woman

Mighty AC · January 29, 2013

AW, I understand that suicides differ from murders, but are you saying that the homicide rate in the US isn't a problem? Are you also saying that guns do not contribute to that rate?

List of countries by intentional homicide rate

Edited January 29, 2013 by Mighty AC

January 29, 2013

AW, I understand that suicides differ from murders, but are you saying that the homicide rate in the US isn't a problem? Are you also saying that guns do not contribute to that rate?

I'm saying that WWWTT's claim - "Since the Conn. mass shooting,well over 900 people in the US have been murdered by a gun!" - is incorrect.

waldo · January 29, 2013

...- and I'm sure Canada had it's share of suicides since the Connecticut school shooting, too. I dare say, in light of the fact that Canada's suicide rate is comparable to ours,

hey thanks for correcting your earlier claims that Canada's suicide rate is higher... I only offered the correction for you since you kept perpetuating the same false statement, over and over.

oh no... you didn't! Just when I thought we were making progress you follow-up your correction with this unfounded statement... you should have said, "a comparable number", right?

that just as many Canadians took their lives during that same time period as did Americans.

Canuckistani · January 29, 2013

I'm saying that WWWTT's claim - "Since the Conn. mass shooting,well over 900 people in the US have been murdered by a gun!" - is incorrect.

Can you prove that? 900 seems to be the correct estimate, so is it the well over that you're arguing against? And is it not being well over but just at 900 no problem. Probably it's less than 900, because I bet gun homicides go up in the summer, so it's an average of 30 a day, but was probable less in January.

January 29, 2013

Can you prove that? 900 seems to be the correct estimate, so is it the well over that you're arguing against? And is it not being well over but just at 900 no problem. Probably it's less than 900, because I bet gun homicides go up in the summer, so it's an average of 30 a day, but was probable less in January.

It's the 'murdered by a gun' that I'm arguing against; and I've already addressed it. Those aren't the stats for murder, but for "gun deaths," which include criminal activity, accidental shootings, and suicides.

Mighty AC · January 29, 2013

I'm saying that WWWTT's claim - "Since the Conn. mass shooting,well over 900 people in the US have been murdered by a gun!" - is incorrect.

Ok, but 900 Americans died with the help of a gun in the three week period following the Newtown massacre. You claimed that, on average, two thirds of gun deaths are the result of suicide. Taking your word for that value still leaves 300 gun murders in a three week period.

I guess I'm wondering why you are bickering over the exact number when by your own math the US has a gruesome gun and murder problem that has to be dealt with. A problem that is not shared by other similarly developed nations.

Canuckistani · January 29, 2013

It's the 'murdered by a gun' that I'm arguing against; and I've already addressed it. Those aren't the stats for murder, but for "gun deaths," which include criminal activity, accidental shootings, and suicides.

Sorry, no. Gun homicides in the US are 11,000 a year = 30 a day. Total gun deaths are 30,000 a year = 82 a day. The latter, of course includes all those 4 yr olds accidentally shooting themselves or somebody else (as you will see in the Slate graphic.)