Why our mindsets are so different

[Guest Derek L]

We share an even longer border with the US. Using your analogy, ours should be much lower than it is if we didn't. After all, a majority of our gun homicides are also gang related and associated with the drug trade.

I don't follow your first point..........As far as I know, Canada doesn’t have anywhere near the same extent of drug related violence as the war between Cartels ongoing in Mexico, that by extension spills out into organized crime centred around said industry within the United States………..As to the relationships between the three countries, clearly the illicit drug market in the United States is more lucrative based on population alone than Canada……..

Edited January 19, 2013 by Derek L

[Wilber]

I don't follow your first point..........As far as I know, Canada doesn’t have anywhere near the same extent of drug related violence as the war between Cartels ongoing in Mexico, that by extension spills out into organized crime centred around said industry within the United States………..As to the relationships between the three countries, clearly the illicit drug market in the United States is more lucrative based on population alone than Canada……..

If the US rate is higher because of Mexico, and the US rate is 3 times ours, using your analogy, ours should be even lower if we didn't share a border with the US. No?

[Wilber]

Still nothing but the false "denial" claim, eh?

For the record, your developed country still allows the Ruger Mini-14 even after 14 women were killed - and it's not even restricted, doesn't need to be registered outside of Quebec. A country doesn't have to be "saturated" with firearms for such a tragedy to occur. One need only own one Ruger Mini-14. Seems to me if anyone is in denial, it's you.

I don't say we get everything right and perhaps the Ruger should be banned. I think so and I also think it could happen again but it is interesting that you keep bringing up an incident that happened 24 years ago to make your point.

This thread is about our different mindsets. After the Montreal massacre, there weren't runs on Canadian gun stores to stock up on Rugers and other semi autos or a huge surge in gun club memberships. Watching this going on after Sandy Hook is a near perfect demonstration of Einstein's definition of insanity as I can think of. That's denial. You bet we have different mindsets.

[Wilber]

You are working from a false premise.....there is no intention to put the "cat back in the bag". Not now...not ever. America's guns are here to stay, whether the "developed world" (or undeveloped) likes it or not.

I neither like nor dislike. It's your issue, I just don't want it to become ours.

[Guest Derek L]

If the US rate is higher because of Mexico, and the US rate is 3 times ours, using your analogy, ours should be even lower if we didn't share a border with the US. No?

I understand what you’re saying now……..Perhaps, yes it would……..Or both Canada and the United States’s murder rate would drop if we decriminalized or even legalized drugs……..

[Wilber]

I understand what you’re saying now……..Perhaps, yes it would……..Or both Canada and the United States’s murder rate would drop if we decriminalized or even legalized drugs……..

Quite possibly but drugs alone don't account for the huge difference in firearms homicides.

[bush_cheney2004]

.... Watching this going on after Sandy Hook is a near perfect demonstration of Einstein's definition of insanity as I can think of. That's denial. You bet we have different mindsets.

And that is a good thing....I don't care what you do in Canada. Albert Einstein emigrated to the United States, not Canada.

Canada ranks 13th in the world for gun ownership per capita....not bad for such a "different mindset".

[Guest Derek L]

Quite possibly but drugs alone don't account for the huge difference in firearms homicides.

Nor would gun laws..........Legal gun ownership in Mexico is many magnitudes more restrictive then in Canada, but they still have a homicide rate many magnitudes greater than the United States…….

[Wilber]

And that is a good thing....I don't care what you do in Canada. Albert Einstein emigrated to the United States, not Canada.

Canada ranks 13th in the world for gun ownership per capita....not bad for such a "different mindset".

Still a third of the US and the a great majority are used for hunting in rural areas, not firearms specificaly designed to kill other humans which are useless for hunting. If you need a semi auto with a 30 round magazine to kill a deer or bear you should be banned from hunting or arrested for animal cruelty.

[Smallc]

Many people do use semi auto weapons for hunting. They usually don't have a 30 round magazine though.

[Wilber]

Nor would gun laws..........Legal gun ownership in Mexico is many magnitudes more restrictive then in Canada, but they still have a homicide rate many magnitudes greater than the United States…….

Two separate issues. Illegal guns will always be the tool of gangs in North America. They are very plentiful thanks to our American friends.

[Wilber]

Many people do use semi auto weapons for hunting. They usually don't have a 30 round magazine though.

I know but if you need more than five rounds you should either give up hunting or learn to shoot straight.

[Guest Derek L]

Two separate issues. Illegal guns will always be the tool of gangs in North America. They are very plentiful thanks to our American friends.

And why do said gangs exist?

And how would banning guns from legal owners stop said gangs………There are 100s of millions of firearms in North America………

Seems to me that guns aren’t the problem, but violence….

[Guest Derek L]

Many people do use semi auto weapons for hunting. They usually don't have a 30 round magazine though.

And what if people want said guns for self defense? Americans have said right.

[bush_cheney2004]

....Seems to me that guns aren’t the problem, but violence….

Yes...that's why it is called homicide.

[bush_cheney2004]

And what if people want said guns for self defense? Americans have said right.

And yet, mega-magazines actually reduce reliability and accuracy. Training and experience quickly demonstrates this. It's a good thing that many gang-bangers lack marksmanship training.

Edited January 19, 2013 by bush_cheney2004

[Wilber]

And why do said gangs exist?

And how would banning guns from legal owners stop said gangs………There are 100s of millions of firearms in North America………

Seems to me that guns aren’t the problem, but violence….

Yes there are and where did most of them come from. Guns give the ability to raise the level of violence to a degree far above what would be possible without them.

[Wilber]

And what if people want said guns for self defense? Americans have said right.

Good for them. Lets keep it that way.

[Wilber]

And yet, mega-magazines actually reduce reliability and accuracy. Training and experience quickly demonstrates this. It's a good thing that many gang-bangers lack marksmanship training.

So? We need to give them more access to this type of weapon to make up for the deficit or give them better training?

[Guest Derek L]

And yet, mega-magazines actually reduce reliability and accuracy. Training and experience quickly demonstrates this. It's a good thing that many gang-bangers lack marksmanship training.

Exactly a well sighted, 4 round Remington 700 in .308 would be more deadly in the hands of a half decent shooter, then a AR-15 with a beta-mag in the hands of a nutter with a couple of trips to the range………

Ask any combat vet what they would fear more: a dozen guys armed with AK-47s or a sniper........

What’s the difference between a Remington 700 deer rifle and a Remington 700 “sniper rifle”…….

[Guest Derek L]

Yes there are and where did most of them come from. Guns give the ability to raise the level of violence to a degree far above what would be possible without them.

That's not answering the question?

Say they banned AR-15s for all legal owners tomorrow, and all legal AR-15s were turned in to be melted down……..How will that effect gang violence in a country with 300 + million firearms?

[Guest Derek L]

Good for them. Lets keep it that way.

No one wants to force you to own a gun.........

[bush_cheney2004]

...Ask any combat vet what they would fear more: a dozen guys armed with AK-47s or a sniper........

Hence the motto: "One shot...one kill"

[Guest American Woman]

I don't say we get everything right and perhaps the Ruger should be banned. I think so and I also think it could happen again but it is interesting that you keep bringing up an incident that happened 24 years ago to make your point.

I bring it up because it does make my point. The fact that the mass shooting happened over 24 years ago has nothing to do with it. The gun is still as capable as ever of killing a lot of people, even after 24 years. Banning assault weapons would do nothing to prevent mass shootings. Interesting, however, that you're not sure if it should be banned - even with proof of the number of deaths possible using such a weapon.

This thread is about our different mindsets. After the Montreal massacre, there weren't runs on Canadian gun stores to stock up on Rugers and other semi autos or a huge surge in gun club memberships.

So how would laws outlawing assault weapons change mindsets - and prevent one from using another type of gun to achieve the same end result?

Watching this going on after Sandy Hook is a near perfect demonstration of Einstein's definition of insanity as I can think of. That's denial. You bet we have different mindsets.

Why is that insanity? You think those people are picking up guns to go on mass shooting sprees? What does their gun ownership have to do with criminal activity?

You keep bringing up "denial" like some kind of mantra - when the "denial" is on the part of those who think banning assault weapons would do anything to prevent mass shootings.

[Wilber]

That's not answering the question?

Say they banned AR-15s for all legal owners tomorrow, and all legal AR-15s were turned in to be melted down……..How will that effect gang violence in a country with 300 + million firearms?

That's the problem, the 300+ million firearms and that is compounded by the types of firearms that are legal compared to other countries. The US is the only developed country with the capability of MAD with legal privately owned firearms. One round from each of their privately owned guns could wipe out almost their entire population. In peculiar American fashion many seem unable to connect this to a firearm related homicide rate that is far above any other developed country. It has to be anything else but.

This is why I say the run on AR-15's and high capacity magazines is a perfect example of Einstein's definition of insanity which states, insanity is doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results. The answer to privately owned assault weapon massacres must be more privately owned assault weapons and guess what. The results don't change.

I've written them off when it comes to dealing with their firearms fetish. I just don't want it in my country.