betsy Posted December 15, 2012 Report Share Posted December 15, 2012 Driving in the countryside, I see a few signs along the way, "Don't Take My Land," "Back-Off my land," "This land is our land. Back-off Government." Etc.., Never really paid much attention to them. But now, those signs take on a whole new ominous meaning..... Agenda 21. In a nutshell, "United Nations Agenda for the 21st Century" calls for governments to take control of all land use. Individual rights in general are to give way to the needs of communities as determined by a globalist governing body. People will be packed into "islands of human habitation" (their words), and most of the land will be set aside for non-humans. It calls for lowering the standard of living (at least for Americans) and a redistribution of wealth. A non-governmental organization (unelected members) called International Council of Local Environmental Initiatives (ICLEI) is tasked with carrying out the goals locally. Over 600 cities and counties are members. The costs are paid by taxpayers. Saugerties is an ICLEI town. Is yours? more... http://www.dailyfreeman.com/articles/2012/10/15/opinion/doc50784b14a6c3d226308864.txt Do an inventory of different control measures being pushed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted December 15, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 15, 2012 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted December 15, 2012 Report Share Posted December 15, 2012 Agenda 21 has been something on my radar for a while. It's a systematic approach to destroying nation-state sovereignty to push through a new global agenda from the UN. it's slow and incremental and has been going on for some time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted December 15, 2012 Report Share Posted December 15, 2012 It's ridiculous campaigns like this which make the Tea Party look more like a fringe party. SUZANNE VAN WAGENEN is the expert we're relying on in the OP to tell us about this initiative. Guess what she doesn't mention - it's non-binding and it's looking for ways for governments to look for sustainable What is it ? Agenda 21 is a non-binding, voluntarily implemented action plan of the United Nations with regard to sustainable development. It is a product of the UN Conference on Environment and Development held in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil, in 1992. Can we have something other than no-name letters to the editor, shadowy YouTube videos warning of World Government etc. etc. ? This opinions are just fringe doomsayers. They are exploited by media nutbar figureheads like Glenn Beck to make money from populist paranoia. We've been seeing this garbage for years now - when exactly is this New World Order going to take control over the current world order ? Those of you who push these videos and ideas align your credibility with these laughing stocks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted December 15, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 15, 2012 (edited) when exactly is this New World Order going to take control over the current world order ? I don't think they want it to jump at you. It happens gradually....with the "cooperation" of innocent citizens who think they're rooting for a good cause. Like I said....do an inventory how much control (in separate small measures) are being pushed through....from what you eat, to how you paint your house (in some urban areas, you are allowed to use only certain colors of paint to blend in with the tones the city wants to achieve). You might say, "they're not related." They may not be directly related.....but you are getting used to being controlled! It's like sitting in a pot of water that's slowly heating. You wouldn't realize that you're being boiled to death until it's too late. Edited December 15, 2012 by betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimG Posted December 15, 2012 Report Share Posted December 15, 2012 SUZANNE VAN WAGENEN is the expert we're relying on in the OP to tell us about this initiative. Guess what she doesn't mention - it's non-binding and it's looking for ways for governments to look for sustainable.To be fair, various bureaucrats in the UN and NGOs sympathetic to the UN are constantly looking for ways to increase the power of the UN and to compel states to follow UN directives so the conspiracy nuts are correct to claim that there are people out there with this kind of agenda. What is forgotten is individual states would never agree to such regimes and UN resolutions that get passed are always watered down to the point where they are meaningless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted December 15, 2012 Report Share Posted December 15, 2012 Given the huge amount of debate that attends even modest tax breaks, the idea that UN-imposed seizure of private property could somehow be snuck through is ridiculous. The fact that these silly conspiracy ideas get traction is a testimonial to the lack of understanding of process in society today. It's not hard to make a connection between a general lack-of-understanding of process, with a lack of understanding of problems with process, and the problems with society too. This means we're reaching some kind of limit with democracy IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimG Posted December 15, 2012 Report Share Posted December 15, 2012 (edited) The fact that these silly conspiracy ideas get traction is a testimonial to the lack of understanding of process in society today.I have made my general disdain for environmental activists quite clear, however, I still think that environmental activists serve a useful function in society and I would not want to see them disappear. This is because we need people who are motivated to dig up the problems and raise awareness because sometimes there are real problems that need addressing. Even if I dismiss a report by an environmental group I am still more informed that I would have been without reading that report (i.e. I know what the sensitive issues are). The only thing that separates these UN conspiracy types from environmental activists is I am not aware of any incident where UN conspiracy types have actually brought something important to light. Edited December 15, 2012 by TimG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Squid Posted December 15, 2012 Report Share Posted December 15, 2012 Take the tinfoil off your heads! Sheesh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted December 15, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 15, 2012 Take the tinfoil off your heads! Sheesh. Take your head from out of the sand. Breathe....while the air is still free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacee Posted December 15, 2012 Report Share Posted December 15, 2012 Anybody know wher Harper stands on Agenda 21? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guyser Posted December 15, 2012 Report Share Posted December 15, 2012 Take your head from out of the sand. Breathe....while the air is still free. How would you know? Yours is firmly planted in the sand....witness... to how you paint your house (in some urban areas, you are allowed to use only certain colors of paint to blend in with the tones the city wants to achieve). Falsehood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guyser Posted December 15, 2012 Report Share Posted December 15, 2012 Anybody know wher Harper stands on Agenda 21? In the aisle marked slacks.Sorry , Forever 21...Agenda 21.....i gets confused. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted December 16, 2012 Report Share Posted December 16, 2012 You might say, "they're not related." They may not be directly related.....but you are getting used to being controlled! It's like sitting in a pot of water that's slowly heating. You wouldn't realize that you're being boiled to death until it's too late. I can tell you at least 10 ways in which each and everyone of us is being monitored on a daily basis. I don't see eye to eye with you in many of the other threads, but this I am on the same page with you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacee Posted December 16, 2012 Report Share Posted December 16, 2012 I can tell you at least 10 ways in which each and everyone of us is being monitored on a daily basis. I don't see eye to eye with you in many of the other threads, but this I am on the same page with you. But I didn't say that. betsy did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted December 16, 2012 Report Share Posted December 16, 2012 But I didn't say that. betsy did. How did I manage to do that!??? i think i screwed up a multiquote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted December 17, 2012 Report Share Posted December 17, 2012 I can tell you at least 10 ways in which each and everyone of us is being monitored on a daily basis. I don't see eye to eye with you in many of the other threads, but this I am on the same page with you. This paranoia that is freely floated and associated with the UN, Democrats, the Bush Family or whatever they're targeting today - it's a sign that democracy needs to put more chlorine in the discussion pool. When we have open corruption and purchase of political representatives, the fact that people are looking for secret societies indicates that the dialogue is broken. These people should make up such a small percentage of the dialogue that we never hear from them... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted December 17, 2012 Report Share Posted December 17, 2012 In the aisle marked slacks. Sorry , Forever 21...Agenda 21.....i gets confused. Harper looks more Century 21 than Forever 21. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted December 17, 2012 Report Share Posted December 17, 2012 This paranoia that is freely floated and associated with the UN, Democrats, the Bush Family or whatever they're targeting today - it's a sign that democracy needs to put more chlorine in the discussion pool. it's not paranoia when they are actually doing all this. Being in IT for as long as I have, I've seen the progression on how all this technology is used daily to track/monitor you. I want people who can think critically to be involved in the discussions, not someone who parrots talking points. When we have open corruption and purchase of political representatives, the fact that people are looking for secret societies indicates that the dialogue is broken. These people should make up such a small percentage of the dialogue that we never hear from them... Agenda 21 is no secret, and the people putting these things forth are not secret as well. It's all out in the open for all to see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted December 17, 2012 Report Share Posted December 17, 2012 I don't think they want it to jump at you. It happens gradually....with the "cooperation" of innocent citizens who think they're rooting for a good cause. It`s paranoiac bunk. There`s no evidence of a secret cabal of world dominating controlists. There are, as always, initiatives to make government work towards certain goals. This is as advertised. There`s no agenda for mind control, except those that are making these up to get attention and money. They`re the rust of democracy IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted December 17, 2012 Report Share Posted December 17, 2012 it's not paranoia when they are actually doing all this. Being in IT for as long as I have, I've seen the progression on how all this technology is used daily to track/monitor you. The two classes of monitoring that I have heard about are either for marketing/advertising or for anti-terrorism and security. Neither of these are new trends. The idea that every single government initiative is part of a grand conspiracy is corrosive to democracy and good government. People who buy into this stuff need to grow up - they're actually starting to affect policy. I want people who can think critically to be involved in the discussions, not someone who parrots talking points. Thinking critically also means prioritizing and separating the real from the fantasy. The people in the OP are buying into fantasy for no good reason. Agenda 21 is no secret, and the people putting these things forth are not secret as well. It's all out in the open for all to see. Right. It's also a non-binding initiative with stated goals not a nefarious plot to control people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted December 17, 2012 Report Share Posted December 17, 2012 It`s paranoiac bunk. It's not paranoia. Like I said, I can tell you 10 ways in which you are being monitored on a daily basis. There`s no evidence of a secret cabal of world dominating controlists. There are, as always, initiatives to make government work towards certain goals. This is as advertised. As I said, these people who put this fort are not hiding in secrecy. But if the UN is not a cabal of dominating controllers, I have no idea what is then. There`s no agenda for mind control, except those that are making these up to get attention and money. They`re the rust of democracy IMO. Who mentioned mind control? Do you know what Agenda 21 is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted December 17, 2012 Report Share Posted December 17, 2012 The two classes of monitoring that I have heard about are either for marketing/advertising or for anti-terrorism and security. Neither of these are new trends. The idea that every single government initiative is part of a grand conspiracy is corrosive to democracy and good government. People who buy into this stuff need to grow up - they're actually starting to affect policy. Would you recognize a police state even if you were living in one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted December 17, 2012 Report Share Posted December 17, 2012 It's not paranoia. Like I said, I can tell you 10 ways in which you are being monitored on a daily basis. It is paranoia because they associate monitoring with false motives and false consequences, and they trump up motives for initiatives like this beyond anything logical. Moreover, they damage faith in the system and cause people to resist every initiative due to mistrust. As I said, these people who put this fort are not hiding in secrecy. But if the UN is not a cabal of dominating controllers, I have no idea what is then. What are the likely consequences of something like Agenda 21 ? Why does Agenda 21 need to be addresmsed as its own thing ? They get attention like this due to paranoiac memes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted December 17, 2012 Report Share Posted December 17, 2012 Would you recognize a police state even if you were living in one? Yes, I really do think that I would. You live in an open society with wide ranging freedoms and few restrictions on self-expression, movement, or the pursuit of happiness. The idea that you're being monitored/controlled to the point where it should be a concern is just lunacy IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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