Mass shooting

[bush_cheney2004]

Children dying in their classrooms is different then a a gang shoot out. It just is.

So you maintain that the École Polytechnique Massacre is/was tolerable in Canada because it didn't involve children ? Do you realize that gang related drive by shootings kill far, far more children than those killed in Newtown ?

[cybercoma]

Because only the most highly trained elite personnel could possibly be expected to not make one mistake per 130,000 of them every couple years. A few courses on how to handle a gun does not make you highly trained, it makes you marginally competent in handling a gun, but says nothing about anything else.

What happens when some silly kid comes into a school with a toy weapon that looks like a real one and starts horsing around with his friends and the armed guard blows his head off because he thinks it's a real weapon and a massacre is about to commence?

Especially given the situation, handling a firearm around a school full of children, you want to make damn sure the person guarding them is not going to miss and hit one of them by mistake.

[punked]

So you maintain that the École Polytechnique Massacre is/was tolerable in Canada because it didn't involve children ? Do you realize that gang related drive by shootings kill far, far more children than those killed in Newtown ?

I think it was intolerable. Innocent people who had no idea it was coming died. Doesn't change my point we gave 600% less gun deaths per capita. It is time for your country to look inward for real solutions.

[cybercoma]

Name the last shooting to happen in Canada at school. They aren't their to prevent mass shootings because they don't happen. I am sorry to say it. Their is nothing for them to prevent.

Dawson College 2006

WR Myers 1999

Concordia 1992

École Polytechnique 1989

St. Pious X 1975

Brampton Centennial 1975

That's all of them, since 1975.

[punked]

Dawson College 2006

WR Myers 1999

Concordia 1992

École Polytechnique 1989

St. Pious X 1975

Brampton Centennial 1975

That's all of them, since 1975.

So that would be what? Around the same number of mass shootings as America had in one year.

[bush_cheney2004]

I think it was intolerable. Innocent people who had no idea it was coming died. Doesn't change my point we gave 600% less gun deaths per capita. It is time for your country to look inward for real solutions.

My country? So now you're not an American after all ?

[Wilber]

Dawson College 2006

WR Myers 1999

Concordia 1992

École Polytechnique 1989

St. Pious X 1975

Brampton Centennial 1975

That's all of them, since 1975.

The total number dead from all of them combined was the same as Sandy Hook. Couldn't be that lack of fire power again.

[punked]

My country? So now you're not an American after all ?

Give me a break.

[Guest American Woman]

My country? So now you're not an American after all ?

Yeah, my thoughts exactly.

As for the argument that easy access to guns in the U.S. results in a higher number of suicides -

In 2008 American had 11,000 gun related Homicides, Japan had 11.

- considering Japan has 2 to 2 1/2 times the rate of suicides per capita as the U.S., one has to either wonder just how high the number of suicides would be in Japan if not for the strict gun laws, or admit that even without access to guns, someone who wants to commit suicide will find a way.

There are so many contradictory arguments by those criticizing the U.S. in this thread - the mass murders are evidence of a culture that has gone terribly wrong - as Japan, with 2 to 2 1/2 times the suicide rate, is held up as a shining example. Wouldn't a high suicide rate - one of the highest in the world - be an indication of a culture gone wrong?

Mass murders are trotted out as the reason for more gun control, yet they account for only 1% of homicides. Supporters of the right to bear arms are seen as caring more about guns than human lives - by 'holier-than-thou' people who find gun deaths elsewhere "tolerable." I have to wonder - just when do gun deaths become "intolerable?" What is the magic number?

Furthermore, Canada's gun-related homicide rate is down - as homicide rates per capita is up - which would indicate that having stricter gun laws doesn't automatically result in a lower incidence of homicides. On the other hand, the incidence of homicides in the U.S. is at it's lowest in fifty years - at the low end of 100 years. Yet the mass murders are in indication that the U.S. is going to the dogs.

And of course it's all because of guns - and anyone who 'doesn't admit that' is brainwashed, doesn't know their own mind, is insensitive and uncaring, does not question why these things happen.

Last but not least, we see the 'things aren't perfect in Canada but they're better than they are in the U.S.' mindset trotted out time and again. Apparently one can tolerate the gun deaths in Canada as long as they happen less than in the U.S.

As an interesting side note, I read that one of the reasons Japan has been able to carry out its strict laws regarding gun ownership is because Japanese people are less likely to question authority. Is that a good thing? Apparently not:

A Japanese parliamentary committee has blamed last year’s meltdowns at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant on a catalogue of manmade errors, including a culturally ingrained Japanese unwillingness to question authority.

http://www.smartplan...authority/17354

Edited December 24, 2012 by American Woman

[punked]

Yeah, my thoughts exactly.

As for the argument that easy access to guns in the U.S. results in a higher number of suicides -

- considering Japan has 2 to 2 1/2 times the rate of suicides per capita as the U.S., one has to either wonder just how high the number of suicides would be in Japan if not for the strict gun laws, or admit that even without access to guns, someone who wants to commit suicide will find a way.

There are so many contradictory arguments by those criticizing the U.S. in this thread - the mass murders are evidence of a culture that has gone terribly wrong - as Japan, with 2 to 2 1/2 times the suicide rate, is held up as a shining example. Wouldn't a high suicide rate - one of the highest in the world - be an indication of a culture gone wrong?

Mass murders are trotted out as the reason for more gun control, yet they account for only 1% of homicides. Supporters of the right to bear arms are seen as caring more about guns than human lives - by 'holier-than-thou' people who find gun deaths elsewhere "tolerable." I have to wonder - just when do gun deaths become "intolerable?" What is the magic number?

Furthermore, Canada's gun-related homicide rate is down - as homicide rates per capita is up - which would indicate that having stricter gun laws doesn't automatically result in a lower incidence of homicides. On the other hand, the incidence of homicides in the U.S. is at it's lowest in fifty years - at the low end of 100 years. Yet the mass murders are in indication that the U.S. is going to the dogs.

And of course it's all because of guns - and anyone who 'doesn't admit that' is brainwashed, doesn't know their own mind, is insensitive and uncaring, does not question why these things happen.

Last but not least, we see the 'things aren't perfect in Canada but they're better than they are in the U.S.' mindset trotted out time and again. Apparently one can tolerate the gun deaths in Canada as long as they happen less than in the U.S.

As an interesting side note, I read that one of the reasons Japan has been able to carry out its strict laws regarding gun ownership is because Japanese people are less likely to question authority. Is that a good thing? Apparently not:

A Japanese parliamentary committee has blamed last year’s meltdowns at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant on a catalogue of manmade errors, including a culturally ingrained Japanese unwillingness to question authority.

http://www.smartplan...authority/17354

If an adult wants to take their own life with out hurting anyone else that needs to be their decision. You are flipping and flopping all over the place trying to justify the fact you have no argument.

[cybercoma]

Not to mention Japan has a culture of honour related to suicide, while America has a culture of anarchy related to guns.

[punked]

Not to mention Japan has a culture of honour related to suicide, while America has a culture of anarchy related to guns.

It just isn't a problem. What is a problem is when parents get a phone call because their children have been shoot in class no warning no nothing. It becomes a problem when you can do everything right and still be gunned down at a viewing of Batman. Society can't function like that. We changed the whole world because of 9/11 we didn't just say "Oh well nothing we can do," like American womens seems to think is what we should be doing here. Just small changes could solve a lot of the problem.

[Guest American Woman]

Not to mention Japan has a culture of honour related to suicide....

So in other words, there's something wrong within their culture.

There's also, apparently, something wrong within their culture in regards to not questioning authority.

But let's reserve any criticism for the U.S.

[cybercoma]

So in other words, there's something wrong within their culture.

There's also, apparently, something wrong within their culture in regards to not questioning authority.

But let's reserve any criticism for the U.S.

"Good Lord!" In a thread about mass shootings in the US, why the hell would I be criticizing Japan's culture around suicide?

What's sad is you don't even realize how ridiculous you sound.

Edited December 24, 2012 by cybercoma

[cybercoma]

That's not even to mention that I am criticizing Japan's suicide culture. WTH. You don't even make sense anymore, AW.

[Guest American Woman]

"Good Lord!" In a thread about mass shootings in the US, why the hell would I be criticizing Japan's culture around suicide?

Because Japan was held up as a shining beacon compared to the U.S., yet their willingness to go along with the gun laws in Japan, their willingness to not question authority, results in problems in other areas, so one cannot just throw out a statistic without expecting some critical thought regarding said statistic. Because suicides in the U.S. were brought up in a thread regarding our gun laws. Because you made a post about suicides in Japan in a thread about mass shootings in the U.S., which is what I was responding to. Because U.S. culture has been blamed for our gun related deaths. Hope that helps clear things up for you.

[cybercoma]

Their suicides aren't even a fraction of the US homicide rate is per capita. Come on, AW. You've got to be kidding.

edit: And for the record, I didn't make a post about Japan. I was replying to punked's post about Japan.

Edited December 24, 2012 by cybercoma

[cybercoma]

And if you look at the suicide rates by city in America, Albuquerque (21), Sacramento (22.7), Tucson (25), Colorado Springs (26.1), and Vegas (35.4) all have equal to or greater suicide rates than Japan. So what exactly is the point of criticizing them again?

In any case, this isn't about suicide. Someone committing suicide is vastly different than an armed gunman walking into a school, movie theatre, or some other public place and shooting up the place, murdering dozens. This whole suicide tangent is stupid.

Edited December 24, 2012 by cybercoma

[GostHacked]

We are in the USA section talking about the USA, we have the usual ones come out and tell the rest of us to stuff it because we are not American while they quickly derail the thread into something else.

[Guest American Woman]

Their suicides aren't even a fraction of the US homicide rate is per capita. Come on, AW. You've got to be kidding.

You've got to be kidding.

Suicides in Japan in 2010: 31,690

Homicides in the U.S. in 2010: 16,065

Population of Japan: 126+ million

Population of the U.S.: 311+ million

I'll let you do the math.

edit: And for the record, I didn't make a post about Japan. I was replying to punked's post about Japan.

And that reply was about Japan - hence it was "a post about Japan."

Edited December 24, 2012 by American Woman

[Wilber]

Suicide more a part of the Japanese culture but unless one considers taking their own life to be the same as taking someone elses, I don' t see what it has to do with this discussion.

[cybercoma]

We are in the USA section talking about the USA, we have the usual ones come out and tell the rest of us to stuff it because we are not American while they quickly derail the thread into something else.

Suicide more a part of the Japanese culture but unless one considers taking their own life to be the same as taking someone elses, I don' t see what it has to do with this discussion.

Exactly.

[cybercoma]

You've got to be kidding.

Suicides in Japan in 2010: 31,690

Homicides in the U.S. in 2010: 16,065

Population of Japan: 126+ million

Population of the U.S.: 311+ million

I'll let you do the math.

And that reply was about Japan - hence it was "a post about Japan."

And what relevance does Japan's suicide rate have to mass murders in the US? How are suicides even remotely comparable to mass murders?

And as for your math, there are areas in the US with far worse suicide rates than Japan. That was my point. But now you want to use absolute numbers to justify some argument that doesn't even make sense, since suicides and mass murders are not comparable.

This is about gun laws and mass murders, as well as gun-related homicides. Japan has some of the lowest gun-crime per capita of any nation and some of the strictest gun laws. Your country has an absolutely ridiculous amount of violence and some of the laxest gun-laws in Western Industrial Nations. It's not a coincidence. Your gun culture is foolish and deadly.

[cybercoma]

Meanwhile, while you have very few laws protecting people from guns, your country has spent trillions in a completely ineffectual War on Drugs that has imprisoned millions of people for something as silly and innocuous as selling pot.

[BubberMiley]

I agree that it's important to do what you can to feel good about yourself when defending the right of a mass-murderer of small children to have weaponry that maximizes the greatest possible death toll.