Mass shooting

[Bonam]

Where did the NRA call for that?

Because only the most highly trained elite personnel could possibly be expected to not make one mistake per 130,000 of them every couple years. A few courses on how to handle a gun does not make you highly trained, it makes you marginally competent in handling a gun, but says nothing about anything else.

What happens when some silly kid comes into a school with a toy weapon that looks like a real one and starts horsing around with his friends and the armed guard blows his head off because he thinks it's a real weapon and a massacre is about to commence?

Edited December 23, 2012 by Bonam

[Guest Derek L]

I think some people have the wrong idea about the NRA and what it does and what it stands for.

Exactly.......The NRA has been training Police and Military Police for over 50 years.........

[eyeball]

Close call:

http://www.telegraph...it-suicide.html

A quantity of chemicals used to make explosives was also allegedly discovered.

It is claimed that the teenager had bought sulphur and potassium nitrate - the main ingredients in gunpowder - off the internet, using his father's Paypal account.

Well that's just plain nuts, and it's something the government should be monitoring for like it does the purchase of ammonium nitrate and diesel.

[Guest Derek L]

Because only the most highly trained elite personnel could possibly be expected to not make one mistake per 130,000 of them every couple years. A few courses on how to handle a gun does not make you highly trained, it makes you marginally competent in handling a gun, but says nothing about anything else.

You understand the NRA trains and certifies Police and Military Police firearms instructors right?

[Smallc]

You do understand that a school full of children is a totally different kind of environment than they train for, I hope.

[Guest Derek L]

You do understand that a school full of children is a totally different kind of environment than they train for, I hope.

Oh, so you've been active in police pistol combat courses too?

Like I said, the NRA has been training police and MP firearms instructors for over 50 years...........But I'd love for you to expand upon the environment they do train for....

[Bonam]

Oh, so you've been active in police pistol combat courses too?

Like I said, the NRA has been training police and MP firearms instructors for over 50 years...........But I'd love for you to expand upon the environment they do train for....

Derek, as I asked before:

What happens when some silly kid comes into a school with a toy weapon that looks like a real one and starts horsing around with his friends and the armed guard blows his head off because he thinks it's a real weapon and a massacre is about to commence?

Again, you simply can't expect that every one of these 132,000 people that get assigned to the dull school guard job instead of the exciting postings that everyone in the academy is going for is gonna be as good as a spec ops superhero. They'll make mistakes, and they'll make them often, and those mistakes will result in deaths.

[Guest Derek L]

Derek, as I asked before:

What happens when some silly kid comes into a school with a toy weapon that looks like a real one and starts horsing around with his friends and the armed guard blows his head off because he thinks it's a real weapon and a massacre is about to commence?

Again, you simply can't expect that every one of these 132,000 people that get assigned to the dull school guard job instead of the exciting postings that everyone in the academy is going for is gonna be as good as a spec ops superhero. They'll make mistakes, and they'll make them often, and those mistakes will result in deaths.

The same thing would result when a patrolmen does likewise...........And like all assignments in current forces, staff is rotated in and out.

[Bonam]

The same thing would result when a patrolmen does likewise

Correct. And as I linked earlier, police officers erroneously kill about 400 people every year. Which is about 20 times as many deaths as occur in mass shootings. So would the schools be any safer on average?

[Smallc]

Oh, so you've been active in police pistol combat courses too?

Like I said, the NRA has been training police and MP firearms instructors for over 50 years...........But I'd love for you to expand upon the environment they do train for....

What happens when some silly kid comes into a school with a toy weapon that looks like a real one and starts horsing around with his friends and the armed guard blows his head off because he thinks it's a real weapon and a massacre is about to commence?

[Guest Derek L]

Correct. And as I linked earlier, police officers erroneously kill about 400 people every year. Which is about 20 times as many deaths as occur in mass shootings. So would the schools be any safer on average?

And how many of those 400 are small children with toy guns?

[Bonam]

And how many of those 400 are small children with toy guns?

Small children like 6 foot tall threatening looking black dudes in high school?

[Guest Derek L]

Small children like 6 foot tall threatening looking black dudes in high school?

So, how many?

[Smallc]

And how many of those 400 are small children with toy guns?

Fill the schools with armed guards, and we'll get to find out.

[Guest American Woman]

Fill the schools with armed guards, and we'll get to find out.

So how many kids have the armed police officers in Toronto schools killed?

[Smallc]

So how many kids have the armed police officers in Toronto schools killed?

That's a very small sample size, and a very different law enforcement environment (Toronto is one of the safest cities on the planet).

[Guest American Woman]

That's a very small sample size, and a very different law enforcement environment (Toronto is one of the safest cities on the planet).

The police wouldn't be in those schools if they were oh-so-safe - they are schools, and therefore the same environment as schools in the U.S. - although, many schools in the U.S. would be safer environments.

[punked]

When did the NRA call for?

Don't call me a liar.

They did not call for the Hiring of more POLICE to put in our schools. In fact I think the Republican candidate for president just ran a campaign on Less Police and Less fire fighters. They also did not say they would pay for MORE POLICE. They said they will train people. THAT IS DIFFERENT THEN YOUR LIE.

The Questions asked matter just as much as the facts.

[punked]

Exactly.......The NRA has been training Police and Military Police for over 50 years.........

Yah they train the police who opened fire at the Empire state building killing 2 and injuring 9? Mistakes happen, when they happen with guns they are deadly. This is a way to stop one problem only to start another which will be equal to the first. IT IS A BAD IDEA!

[punked]

So how many kids have the armed police officers in Toronto schools killed?

THE NRA IN NO WAY HAS OFFERED TO PAY FOR A POLICE PRESENCE IN SCHOOLS!!!! I want to make this clear. You can not say because the NRA trains someone they are now a Police officer. The NRA has offered a 4 MILLION DOLLAR TRAINING PROGRAM to put VOLUNTEERS IN SCHOOLS. NOT WHAT YOU CLAIM.

It would cost the NRA a boat load of money to put a police presents in 130,000 schools year round they are not offering that STOP PRETENDING THEY ARE.

They are offering to give someone a course on guns equivalent to maybe maybe a police training course. Probably not though. Then put these people in your school. THESE PEOPLE ARE NOT POLICE!!!

Putting Police in schools might be a solution. Pony up the money and pay for it. Wont happen though.

Edited December 23, 2012 by punked

[Smallc]

The police wouldn't be in those schools if they were oh-so-safe - they are schools, and therefore the same environment as schools in the U.S. - although, many schools in the U.S. would be safer environments.

IIRC, they're resource officers. They aren't there to protect the schools from a gunman.

[Guest American Woman]

THE NRA IN NO WAY HAS OFFERED TO PAY FOR A POLICE PRESENCE IN SCHOOLS!!!! I want to make this clear. You can not say because the NRA trains someone they are now a Police officer. The NRA has offered a 4 MILLION DOLLAR TRAINING PROGRAM to put VOLUNTEERS IN SCHOOLS. NOT WHAT YOU CLAIM.

First of all, I never made any claims at all - so you can stop shouting at me.

It would cost the NRA a boat load of money to put a police presents in 130,000 schools year round they are not offering that STOP PRETENDING THEY ARE.

Again. I never said they would pay for such a thing. So I'm not "pretending" anything. Your shouting does nothing to add validity to your claims.

They are offering to give someone a course on guns equivalent to maybe maybe a police training course. Probably not though. Then put these people in your school. THESE PEOPLE ARE NOT POLICE!!!

Putting Police in schools might be a solution. Pony up the money and pay for it. Wont happen though.

Wayne LaPierre, CEO of the nation's largest gun rights lobbying organization, said the NRA would push Congress to put a police officer in every school and would coordinate a national effort to put

former military and police offers

in schools as volunteer guards.

LaPierre cited Israel as a model for the type of school security system the NRA envisions.

"Israel had a whole lot of school shootings until they did one thing: They said 'we're going to stop it,' and they put armed security in every school and they have not had a problem since then," he said.

http://abcnews.go.co...85#.UNdmqeT7Lao

[punked]

First of all, I never made any claims at all - so you can stop shouting at me.

Again. I never said they would pay for such a thing. So I'm not "pretending" anything. Your shouting does nothing to add validity to your claims.

Wayne LaPierre, CEO of the nation's largest gun rights lobbying organization, said the NRA would push Congress to put a police officer in every school and would coordinate a national effort to put

former military and police offers

in schools as volunteer guards.

LaPierre cited Israel as a model for the type of school security system the NRA envisions.

"Israel had a whole lot of school shootings until they did one thing: They said 'we're going to stop it,' and they put armed security in every school and they have not had a problem since then," he said.

http://abcnews.go.co...85#.UNdmqeT7Lao

Great now only if we could somehow stop mass shootings in movie theaters, at Congressional events, on Military bases, national land marks, at sporting events.....

This is not a solution to the greater problem we are talking about and we know it. Why are people up in arms about this? Not because this was at a school it is because this was a mass shooting on top of all the other ones this year. THIS IS NOT A SOLUTION. It is smoke and mirrors. The answer the problem isn't more guns. Maybe if congress wouldn't be so scared and actually fund a study on guns and gun violence and how it is stopped they would find a real solution. It isn't about a real solution it is about the status quo. Half of America's schools already have a police presents.

[Guest American Woman]

IIRC, they're resource officers. They aren't there to protect the schools from a gunman.

They're in uniform - and they're armed. They're there to protect the students from violence. I think that would include a gunman.

[punked]

They're in uniform - and they're armed. They're there to protect the students from violence. I think that would include a gunman.

Let me make this clear. Police in the schools is fine. That wont stop a gun man from showing up a Batman movie and shooting the place up. This is a bigger problem.

If someone wants to shot a bunch of kids they don't need to go to a school. They end up a daycare when they know their is police in the schools. So now what Police at all the daycares? Now they go to little league games. Police there to. We need to address the problem not just put up stop gap measures that drive mass gunmen to gun down people somewhere else.

Edited December 23, 2012 by punked