Mass shooting

[sharkman]

If these two stark choices are all there are, I'd say the cost of taking all the guns away will be less than locking up the 20 - 25% of the human race that will suffer a mental illness during their life.

How about if we just lock up all the lefties and righties? I'm convinced it's their inability to get along that's driving most of the world nuts.

The two choices aren't that stark. Not everyone who has a "mental illness" would need full time care. But this kid, of whom his mother warned not to ever leave alone, would be a case for sure. And taking away 260 million guns would not be realistic. Can you imagine the police tracking down every single person to ask if they have a piece that's not registered?

Edited December 18, 2012 by sharkman

[GreatJob!]

Absolutely brutal tragedy. The parents will probably have to go through the hollidays in the blackest of despairs...

but... i'm not sure that there is much meaningful action to take after such aimless insanity. gun control? school councelors? psychotropic drugs?

I can't really see any practical solutions ...

Edited December 18, 2012 by GreatJob!

[Black Dog]

I am not defending the gun porn, but Derek L hints at what the real problem is. Most of these people who have committed these tragedies have been on medication for some mental health issues. Also it has been documented that a lot of these drugs do strange things to people. My sister was on Paxil for some time, and her demeanor was not what I know of my sister. Irritable, a bit suicidal, ......

The drugs and the mental health issues are where the focus needs to be. If you can help solve that, the problem with mass shootings like this will dramatically decrease. We have such a deplorable support system for mental health issues that many will slip through the cracks and end up doing this kind of thing.

Getting rid of the guns will not solve the problem.

Except no one goes around saying "You'll pry my mental illness from my cold, dead brain." Addressing mental illness is something everyone can get behind, but ignores the reality that the vast majority of gun casualties are not inflicted by the mentally ill. It's a bigger issue than mass shootings.

[GostHacked]

Except no one goes around saying "You'll pry my mental illness from my cold, dead brain." Addressing mental illness is something everyone can get behind, but ignores the reality that the vast majority of gun casualties are not inflicted by the mentally ill. It's a bigger issue than mass shootings.

Even without the guns, these people are susceptible to violent actions. So how does taking the guns away solve that issue? it does not. Sure a federal gun control mandate might work, but you and I both know that won't solve the underlying issue.

[Wilber]

Most of these kids don't start off "crazy" and they don't just snap. There can be many reasons things build to a point where they get violent. Bullying, moving multiple times during their childhood, always being the new guy and never developing real friendships etc. Some show violent tendencies at home, some keep it in and show few if any. Every parent is new to the job and most have no formal training, expecting them to be shrinks and lock up their children if they think they might be dangerous will solve the problem, is just as delusional as thinking unrestricted gun ownership will be OK if we just give people firearms courses and pass laws to make them lock up their guns.

The problem has to be approached from both directions.

[bush_cheney2004]

The problem has to be approached from both directions.

It's not that easy....kids today know how to game the system. There are now "alternative" schools for kids who act out and disrupt a standard classroom setting, rewarding their behaviour. Mentally ill people are now mainstreamed because of costs and rights. Kids also know they can get a lot of attention by threatening to "kill themselves". Kids are medicated too quickly rather than solving root causes of problems. Fathers are too often absent from a child's life.

Bullying is not new....but now it is a social cause and movie theme to kill anybody in the room.

[Guest American Woman]

Except no one goes around saying "You'll pry my mental illness from my cold, dead brain." Addressing mental illness is something everyone can get behind, but ignores the reality that the vast majority of gun casualties are not inflicted by the mentally ill. It's a bigger issue than mass shootings.

Most are inflicted by someone on psychotropic drugs.

When an un-monitored patient abrubtly stops the medication, the suicidal and phsycotic emotions arise. The bigggest feeling is that of a lack of conscience, or an "I don't care" attitude and they can do anything to anyone they want!

http://www.antidepressantsfacts.com/2000-05-16-School-Shootings-Psychotropic-Drugs.htm

[Wilber]

It's not that easy....kids today know how to game the system. There are now "alternative" schools for kids who act out and disrupt a standard classroom setting, rewarding their behaviour. Mentally ill people are now mainstreamed because of costs and rights. Kids also know they can get a lot of attention by threatening to "kill themselves". Kids are medicated too quickly rather than solving root causes of problems. Fathers are too often absent from a child's life.

Bullying is not new....but now it is a social cause and movie theme to kill anybody in the room.

Who said it was easy?

Easy would be Congressman Louie Gohmert's solution. Give every principal an assault rifle. Just what every civilized elementary school needs, assault rifles. Of course, if the shooter had got the principal first, then he would then have two assault rifles. There are a lot of bat crap crazy mother f___s out there, most aren't shooting up schools and some are sitting in Congress.

[Black Dog]

Even without the guns, these people are susceptible to violent actions. So how does taking the guns away solve that issue? it does not. Sure a federal gun control mandate might work, but you and I both know that won't solve the underlying issue.

And where did I say otherwise? Again: address the mental health issue while at the same time ensuring the mentally unstable aren't able to acquire the means to kill dozens of people in a few minutes. Focusing on one issue at the expense of the other ensures the whole thing will fail.

Most are inflicted by someone on psychotropic drugs.

When an un-monitored patient abrubtly stops the medication, the suicidal and phsycotic emotions arise. The bigggest feeling is that of a lack of conscience, or an "I don't care" attitude and they can do anything to anyone they want!

http://www.antidepre...ropic-Drugs.htm

Again, I'm talking about most gun deaths (murders), not mass shootings alone.

Edited December 18, 2012 by Black Dog

[bush_cheney2004]

...Easy would be Congressman Louie Gohmert's solution. Give every principal an assault rifle.

There is some precedent for such a solution in the form of U.S. Sky Marshals, trained and deployed on random aircraft flights to stem highjackings. So there may be a designated and trained "super-carry-permit" resource made available to schools, perhaps with threat profile criteria based on known or threatened behaviours. School districts are already scanning social media to detect threats to staff and students.

[Wilber]

Oh way to obfuscate reality, Derek, you really make a good case for your absolute right to own an arsenal of assault rifles for your kid to play with.

How many people died in the knife attacks? (A few)

How many died in the gun attacks? (A lot)

Do you see the difference yet?

Guy in China with knife - Guy in China with Bushmaster

Guy in Manitoba with knife in pocket - Guy in Manitoba with Glock and a couple of spare clips in pocket.

Guy in Belgium with knife - Guy in Belgium with Tec- DC9

Same thing. Where's your head?

[Wilber]

There is some precedent for such a solution in the form of U.S. Sky Marshals, trained and deployed on random aircraft flights to stem highjackings. So there may be a designated and trained "super-carry-permit" resource made available to schools, perhaps with threat profile criteria based on known or threatened behaviours. School districts are already scanning social media to detect threats to staff and students.

Bottom line is, for you, the only answer to guns in schools is more and bigger guns. Controlling guns is not an option. You just keep giving me that warm fuzzy feeling.

[Wilber]

Bullying is not new....but now it is a social cause and movie theme to kill anybody in the room.

Actually, bullying through social and electronic media is quite new.

[bush_cheney2004]

Actually, bullying through social and electronic media is quite new.

No it's not...."social media" used to be a rest room wall or school locker door. Elecronic media included the telephone.

[Wilber]

No it's not...."social media" used to be a rest room wall or school locker door. Elecronic media included the telephone.

Not really the same thing and you know it.

[bush_cheney2004]

Bottom line is, for you, the only answer to guns in schools is more and bigger guns. Controlling guns is not an option. You just keep giving me that warm fuzzy feeling.

That's because you can't "control guns" any more than what was already done in this case, yet it still happened. There is never going to be a gun ban in the USA given present political reality. Wanna go after "assault rifles" or "high capacity magazines" ? Knock yourself out.....and congratulations, you have just stopped maybe 2% of gun deaths.

The U.S. Sky Marshall program was a success. The risk of introducing a firearm into the cabin was acceptable given the risk of highjackings incidents. Later we would see the introduction of firearms into the cockpit as a pilot option after 9/11. It's an old strategy....force met by counter-force.

[bush_cheney2004]

Not really the same thing and you know it.

It was if your name was on the wall.

[Wilber]

It was if your name was on the wall.

A restroom wall is not the equivelent of Facebook or Twitter. It doesn't follow you home or go everywhere else with you and it can't be done from your smart phone or iPad.

[Wilber]

That's because you can't "control guns" any more than what was already done in this case, yet it still happened. There is never going to be a gun ban in the USA given present political reality. Wanna go after "assault rifles" or "high capacity magazines" ? Knock yourself out.....and congratulations, you have just stopped maybe 2% of gun deaths.

The U.S. Sky Marshall program was a success. The risk of introducing a firearm into the cabin was acceptable given the risk of highjackings incidents. Later we would see the introduction of firearms into the cockpit as a pilot option after 9/11. It's an old strategy....force met by counter-force.

I think you mean, You can't control guns. Plenty of countries do. You can't completely control anything but difference between you and them is you won't even try.

[bush_cheney2004]

I think you mean, You can't control guns. Plenty of countries do. You can't completely control anything but difference between you and them is you won't even try.

The U.S. just controls them less because of history and citizens' rights to own such things. There is no shortage of "gun control" laws in the United States.

[bush_cheney2004]

A restroom wall is not the equivelent of Facebook or Twitter. It doesn't follow you home or go everywhere else with you and it can't be done from your smart phone or iPad.

And yet, the impact was just as real to any kid subjected to it. Humiliation as a hobby is not new because of MyFace or Twit.

[Wilber]

The U.S. just controls them less because of history and citizens' rights to own such things. There is no shortage of "gun control" laws in the United States.

And you pay a huge humanitarian price for that. It true that there are many factors determining homicide rates but yours is 16 times that of Japan which bans private gun ownership

[Wilber]

And yet, the impact was just as real to any kid subjected to it. Humiliation as a hobby is not new because of MyFace or Twit.

What's changed is the ability to humiliate. We could get away from it by going home. Today it follows kids home.

[bush_cheney2004]

And you pay a huge humanitarian price for that. It true that there are many factors determining homicide rates but yours is 16 times that of Japan which bans private gun ownership

I'm OK with that.....I don't live in Japan. The USA is not trying to be like Japan or Canada. This is something some members here refuse to accept. More people come to gun toting America each year than to Japan or Canada, combined.

Gun homicide rates are at historic lows in the U.S.

Edited December 18, 2012 by bush_cheney2004

[bush_cheney2004]

What's changed is the ability to humiliate. We could get away from it by going home. Today it follows kids home.

So now you want to ban MyFace and Twit too ?