Mass shooting

[Argus]

And someone has to apply pressure to a trigger to kill someone with a gun (In it's intended way).............

Yes, some scumbag or nut job. There are too many of both around.

[bush_cheney2004]

...If his guns were registered under Canada's old registry would the people be any less dead?

Nope....the guns were legally owned and registered. What we are actually learning about the deranged shooter and his mental state is typical for such incidents. This guy was terrorizing his family because of mental illness that went untreated because he hadn't done anything "really serious" yet.

His mother was constantly tormented with threats of his suicide and homicide.

[Argus]

Will bad guys stop having guns because the government bans them?

Most of them, yes. The harder it is to get hold of a gun, the more expensive it is, the fewer 'bad guys' will be carrying them around and using them, and the fewer accidents and impulse suicides. The Hells Angels will always get hand guns, but your local pimp will probably have to make do with a knife.

[Guest Derek L]

Too much bother for the value. I don't feel like taking firearms safety courses or joining a gun club, which would be needed if I was to pretend I wanted the gun for target shooting. If I ever move out to the boonies with their far longer police response times who knows. But don't need one in the city.

Not for Non-restricted firearms…….besides, a non restricted 12 gauge shotgun would be better than a hand gun for self protection pretending to target shoot with.

[Argus]

Not for Non-restricted firearms…….besides, a non restricted 12 gauge shotgun would be better than a hand gun for self protection pretending to target shoot with.

Heh. Yes, probably right. Nevertheless, the statistics are pretty damned clear that a gun in your house is far more likely to kill you or be stolen than to be used to protect you.

[Guest Derek L]

Most of them, yes. The harder it is to get hold of a gun, the more expensive it is, the fewer 'bad guys' will be carrying them around and using them, and the fewer accidents and impulse suicides. The Hells Angels will always get hand guns, but your local pimp will probably have to make do with a knife.

Lester the pimp is more likely to get his pearl handled .45ACP from gun runners bringing them in from the States....

[cybercoma]

Multi-ethnic meaning various ethnicities OTHER than white Canadians.

Everyone brings up the Hells Angels. While I think all the Hells Angels should be in prison for life the fact remains they are not a street gang and when they decide to kill someone they usually do it quietly and rarely wind up killing some ten year old by accident. Quebec, of course, being something of an exception to THAT.

You're completely biased in this argument. If you can't recognize the Hell's Angels for controlling the cocaine trade and being a violent gang because they're mostly white, then you have serious issues.

[bush_cheney2004]

Not for Non-restricted firearms…….besides, a non restricted 12 gauge shotgun would be better than a hand gun for self protection pretending to target shoot with.

Somewhat agree, but I prefer a short barrel 20 guage for all but the most stout and experienced individuals. The Remington 870 Express Compact is excellent for smaller folk and easily maneuvered indoors.

[DogOnPorch]

Somewhat agree, but I prefer a short barrel 20 guage for all but the most stout and experienced individuals. The Remington 870 Express Compact is excellent for smaller folk and easily maneuvered indoors.

What? No 4 gauge duck mortars for home protection? Think of it as perimeter defense.

[Guest Derek L]

Heh. Yes, probably right. Nevertheless, the statistics are pretty damned clear that a gun in your house is far more likely to kill you or be stolen than to be used to protect you.

Said statistics only include shootings involved in self-protection cases, they don’t factor into the equation pulling a gun on an attacker and said attacker fleeing, which in the vast majority of incidents, they do.

In all languages and all cultures, the sound of a racking Remington 870 is universally understood as F**K Off.

Edited December 18, 2012 by Derek L

[bush_cheney2004]

What? No 4 gauge duck mortars for home protection? Think of it as perimeter defense.

That's what the land mines are for !

[guyser]

I dunno. Do you really think a Nova Scotia street gang of white boys is anything like a street gang of Jamaicans in Toronto?

Off hand I do not know. But I would expect them to be quite similar for the activity they are active in.

But the colour of the boys may be moot . They could quite easily be all canuck born and bred for all we know. There isnt much in the way of jamaican youths immigrating (yes with their parents)

In every other province mentioned the great majority of the gang members were non-whites, mainly immigrants. I don't think I ever tried to suggest there weren't lots of white criminals, or that there weren't some white gangs, but by and large they're ethnics and natives.

Im not debating the whiteness of any of them. The ethnicity of them has to be determined through other means. What it did say was that in Ab Sa and Man, it was aboriginals, the original canuck I suppose.

I just wouldnt put it down to immigrants (not that you did per se but alluded too) as the problem, we had that convbersatyion a while back and CSC reported that immigrants werent the majority in jail.

[DogOnPorch]

That's what the land mines are for !

I think I told you about those before...lanyard fired. Say bye-bye flock....

[bush_cheney2004]

I think I told you about those before...lanyard fired. Say bye-bye flock....

Like these....oldie but goodie.

[Guest Derek L]

Somewhat agree, but I prefer a short barrel 20 guage for all but the most stout and experienced individuals. The Remington 870 Express Compact is excellent for smaller folk and easily maneuvered indoors.

The daughter has a 20 gauge Wingmaster 870........I prefer the 12 gauge Police Magnum....... Some say Tomato, some say Tamato

Edited December 18, 2012 by Derek L

[BubberMiley]

Somewhat agree, but I prefer a short barrel 20 guage for all but the most stout and experienced individuals. The Remington 870 Express Compact is excellent for smaller folk and easily maneuvered indoors.

That makes sense. A long barrel would, by comparison, make it obvious why you need the gun in the first place.

[DogOnPorch]

Like these....oldie but goodie.

Ah...the Claymore. The infantry man's friend. Three clicks you're it.

Edited December 18, 2012 by DogOnPorch

[bush_cheney2004]

That makes sense. A long barrel would, by comparison, make it obvious why you need the gun in the first place.

Yea, kinda ruins someone's stupid personal attacks, huh ?

[Black Dog]

Multi-ethnic meaning various ethnicities OTHER than white Canadians.

The "multi-ethnic" United Nations gang are led by a white guy. Formed by Canadian kids from Abbotsford.

Everyone brings up the Hells Angels. While I think all the Hells Angels should be in prison for life the fact remains they are not a street gang and when they decide to kill someone they usually do it quietly and rarely wind up killing some ten year old by accident. Quebec, of course, being something of an exception to THAT.

I bring up the Hell's Angels because they are big players on the west coast drug scene. Weed, coke, guns. Aligned with the Red Scorpions, another predominately white gang (see: the Bacon brothers). These dudes aren't organized on racial lines. They only care about money and turf.

Edited December 18, 2012 by Black Dog

[Black Dog]

Exactly..........As such, with such a tragedy, issues will be debated, and with debated issues, there will me misunderstandings associated with facts………..If some misconceptions can be put to rest, and an honest discussion garnered without one side resorting to labelling the other as (even indirectly) supportive of such tragedies or reverting to low brow phallic insults no progress will be made.

I’ve offered feasible consolatory suggestions……..The retort, I have a small tillywhacker, supportive of the killings and I’m nuts etc

Under such guise, be it here or the national scene, one thing is certain on such a divisive subject, if one side refuses fair dialogue I can guarantee that nothing will happen, fore the push goes to the gun owners……..

Poor diddums. Good thing you have guns to reassure yourself of your manhood.

All you've done is waved half-heartedly at the issue of gun control and mainly used this thread to beat your chest and trade gun tips with your fellow kooks like a couple of adolescent boys swapping locker room tales. Which is pretty much the same mindset.

At the end of the day, you can be assured you'll get to keep your precious killing machines for whatever kick you get out of it. And your buddy bc2004 will continue to glory in a ridiculous and archaic "right" that costs thousands their lives each year. Good for you guys. Real fuckin' heroes.

[Guest Derek L]

Poor diddums. Good thing you have guns to reassure yourself of your manhood.

All you've done is waved half-heartedly at the issue of gun control and mainly used this thread to beat your chest and trade gun tips with your fellow kooks like a couple of adolescent boys swapping locker room tales. Which is pretty much the same mindset.

At the end of the day, you can be assured you'll get to keep your precious killing machines for whatever kick you get out of it. And your buddy bc2004 will continue to glory in a ridiculous and archaic "right" that costs thousands their lives each year. Good for you guys. Real fuckin' heroes.

Well I thank you in spirit, for your reassurance that us gun owners will “keep our guns”, but I already knew that we would, regardless of having your (or likeminded people’s) blessing………..As Chairman Mao correctly said:

Political Power grows out of the barrel of a gun…………

[bush_cheney2004]

.... Good for you guys. Real fuckin' heroes.

Much obliged...and Happy Holidays !

[Guest Derek L]

Much obliged...and Happy Holidays !

A message from bush cheney and Derek L:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJNxj1FdKuo

Edited December 18, 2012 by Derek L

[kimmy]

I think that it is important to keep in mind that there are different kinds of gun homicides, and steps that might be effective for preventing one might not help others.

In many cases, the guns are tools of professional criminals who will have access to guns through illegal channels whatever the law says.

And in many other cases, the guns are simply weapons of opportunity. Somebody is in a rage and does something they might not do if they had 30 seconds to think about it. If it's not a gun it might be a knife or a blunt object or a fist. Guns are more effective than knives or blunt objects or fists, and they also give you less of a chance to have second thoughts. Even the time it takes to unlock a gun cabinet and remove the trigger guard and find the ammo and load the gun can give somebody enough time to realize they're doing something stupid.

Somebody like Adam Lanza (or Kimveer Gill or so on...) doesn't seem like the guy who'd be able to get a gun through illegal channels. These guys are basically losers. They don't have many real-world connections, let alone underworld connections.

I believe that some states have limits on magazine sizes. Some states have regulations requiring that a detachable magazine requires a tool to operate. Here in Canada, semi-automatic center-fire rifles are limited to 5-shot magazines. I have a hard time seeing a need for more. Maybe some gun expert will have an anecdote about how fast they can reload their weapon... but how many of these kids who have committed these rampages have actually had that kind of gun expertise? Anything that slows down the hail of lead should have a chance of saving lives.

edit to add: this has gotten pretty immature, guys.

-k

Edited December 18, 2012 by kimmy

[Guest Derek L]

I believe that some states have limits on magazine sizes. Some states have regulations requiring that a detachable magazine requires a tool to operate. Here in Canada, semi-automatic center-fire rifles are limited to 5-shot magazines. I have a hard time seeing a need for more. Maybe some gun expert will have an anecdote about how fast they can reload their weapon... but how many of these kids who have committed these rampages have actually had that kind of gun expertise? Anything that slows down the hail of lead should have a chance of saving lives.

I hate disagreeing with you Kimmy, but with all respects and not to sound flippant, even with minimal experience, changing magazines on the vast majority of firearms, regardless of capacity, is a feat measured in seconds……….Same with stripper clips and speed loaders………..

Now it’s been reported that the School Principle, on hearing the gunman start shooting through the locked security door, heroically ran off to confront him……….unarmed…………If she, or a member of the staff, had of been legally entitled to carry the days events might have been minimized………

What do all this years, and many past shootings have in common? They’ve all taken place in “gun free zones” within States that allow concealed carry…………