Bonam Posted December 17, 2012 Report Posted December 17, 2012 (edited) I've pretty much been saying it's the gun-culture from page 2 or 3. Ok, but culture is a result of history, which I think is BC2004's point... Edited December 17, 2012 by Bonam Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted December 17, 2012 Report Posted December 17, 2012 Ok, but culture is a result of history, which I think is BC2004's point... Yes..thank you...I'm glad somebody is paying attention. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Guest Derek L Posted December 17, 2012 Report Posted December 17, 2012 I've recently gone through the process of getting a firearms license (just approved, by the way.) Good for you, get your Nagant yet? The second thing I can say is that all of the information I was asked to provide about my mental health was, as far as I can tell completely voluntary. I informed them that I have been treated for depression in the past, and ongoing treatment for general anxiety. They asked me for my doctor's contact information and for a letter indicating that she felt I was not a risk to harm anyone. Which I provided, and they approved my application afterward.I told them about my mental health history because that's the sort of person I am. However, as far as I can tell I could have just as easily told them that I had no mental health issues at all, and they would have never been the wiser. It would have been easy to write "no" on the application form and to tell them I'd never had any mental health concerns during the interview. How would they have found out otherwise? That’s the current framework of the RCMP’s PAL/RPAL system……….If you’re just applying for a PAL, they usually don’t even contact references………….Hence my reasoning in requiring the same level of checks and balances for the PAL process, as is done with the RPAL, well adding the idea of mental health screening (An idea put forward here by Eyeball) through an approved (see their) doctor….. In doing so, the process would equal that what our society deemed sufficient for police officers and the military……Couple this with a requirement for liability insurance for private gun owners, and you exceed the level of personal responsibility society accepts for arming agents of the Federal, Provincial and municipal governments……… In doing so, it defuses the argument made by the hysterical anti-gun lobby…. Quote
BC_chick Posted December 17, 2012 Report Posted December 17, 2012 Ok, but culture is a result of history, which I think is BC2004's point... Doesn't make sense when histories are quite similar. Quote It's kind of the worst thing that any humans could be doing at this time in human history. Other than that, it's fine." Bill Nye on Alberta Oil Sands
bush_cheney2004 Posted December 17, 2012 Report Posted December 17, 2012 Doesn't make sense when histories are quite similar. Except they are not....even today Canadians like to define their identity as NOT American. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Hudson Jones Posted December 17, 2012 Report Posted December 17, 2012 That's cool.....but making comparisons to a nation with a different, more violent history and ten times the population is problematic. But all those guns and war materials sure came in handy during WW2. Sometimes it's okay to let go of the past, if it doesn't make sense. When the second amendment was written, it took 15 seconds to load a bullet. Now, a crazy white dude can off 10 people in that amount of time. Quote When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always. Gandhi
BC_chick Posted December 17, 2012 Report Posted December 17, 2012 Except they are not....even today Canadians like to define their identity as NOT American. Not just Canada, BC. Australia, New Zealand and Canada all came from the same Anglosphere that the US did. As pointed out to you, there was plenty of bloodshed in Europe as well when transitioning to a free democratic society. For some reason, the US continued on the culture and others didn't. Quote It's kind of the worst thing that any humans could be doing at this time in human history. Other than that, it's fine." Bill Nye on Alberta Oil Sands
Bonam Posted December 17, 2012 Report Posted December 17, 2012 (edited) Sometimes it's okay to let go of the past, if it doesn't make sense. When the second amendment was written, it took 15 seconds to load a bullet. Now, a crazy white dude can off 10 people in that amount of time. And how many can a black dude or an Asian dude, or a chick for that matter, "off" in that amount of time? Why use the qualifier white? Guns work equally well for people of any race. Edited December 17, 2012 by Bonam Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted December 17, 2012 Report Posted December 17, 2012 (edited) Not just Canada, BC. Australia, New Zealand and Canada all came from the same Anglosphere that the US did. As pointed out to you, there was plenty of bloodshed in Europe as well when transitioning to a free democratic society. Free society.....not in the 18th century. You must be joking....the Americans had to visit Europe twice in war and stay for a long time before that happened (Cold War). Australia and NZ did not have the same history as the American colonists in rebelling, expanding, and displacing the British Empire as #1 with a bullet. (That's a Billboard Magazine reference, as "gun culture" is very pervasive throughout American society.) For some reason, the US continued on the culture and others didn't. They may have started the same way, but gained independence "peacefully". Edited December 17, 2012 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
bush_cheney2004 Posted December 17, 2012 Report Posted December 17, 2012 Sometimes it's okay to let go of the past, if it doesn't make sense. When the second amendment was written, it took 15 seconds to load a bullet. Now, a crazy white dude can off 10 people in that amount of time. What the hell does race have to do with this mentally unstable assailant? ??????????? Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
bush_cheney2004 Posted December 17, 2012 Report Posted December 17, 2012 ….Hence my reasoning in requiring the same level of checks and balances for the PAL process, as is done with the RPAL, well adding the idea of mental health screening (An idea put forward here by Eyeball) through an approved (see their) doctor….. This would do nothing for private party purchases in the U.S. I bought my first 9mm automatic handgun (Taurus 92F) from the back of a car trunk in a parking lot. It was delivered in full retail packaging inside a paper bag. It was a cash deal, and perfectly legal. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Hudson Jones Posted December 17, 2012 Report Posted December 17, 2012 Crazies come in different colours. I didn't mean to insult the white dudes. It just happens that the school mass murderers have all been crazy white dudes (except for that crazy asian dude). Let me try that again: That's cool.....but making comparisons to a nation with a different, more violent history and ten times the population is problematic. But all those guns and war materials sure came in handy during WW2. Sometimes it's okay to let go of the past, if it doesn't make sense. When the second amendment was written, it took 15 seconds to load a bullet. Now, a crazy dude can off 10 people in that amount of time. Quote When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always. Gandhi
bush_cheney2004 Posted December 17, 2012 Report Posted December 17, 2012 ...Sometimes it's okay to let go of the past, if it doesn't make sense. When the second amendment was written, it took 15 seconds to load a bullet. Now, a crazy dude can off 10 people in that amount of time. Still nonsensical...would it be OK if "dudes" could only kill one person every 15 seconds ? Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Hudson Jones Posted December 17, 2012 Report Posted December 17, 2012 Still nonsensical...would it be OK if "dudes" could only kill one person every 15 seconds ? The weapons used were assault rifles. 30 bullets in each magazine. He went through 3 of them. The weapons facilitated mass murder. Why are there restrictions when it comes to owning fighter jets with missiles? Why are there restrictions and red flags when it comes to buying materials that could facilitate creating explosions? What about chemicals? Time to be honest about a problem, instead of being so stubborn. Quote When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always. Gandhi
bush_cheney2004 Posted December 17, 2012 Report Posted December 17, 2012 The weapons used were assault rifles. 30 bullets in each magazine. He went through 3 of them. It was a semi-automatic civilian derivative of an "assault rifle". The weapons facilitated mass murder. Why are there restrictions when it comes to owning fighter jets with missiles? Why are there restrictions and red flags when it comes to buying materials that could facilitate creating explosions? What about chemicals? What about them? Large capacity magazines are used in sporting events and exhibitions. I could make a fuel-air explosive device tomorrow from commonly available components and chemicals without inviting any attention. Time to be honest about a problem, instead of being so stubborn. The problem is people....not guns. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Hudson Jones Posted December 17, 2012 Report Posted December 17, 2012 (edited) The problem is people....not guns. Isn't the problem that these people can so easily access tools that can facilitate mass murder? Do you agree that there is a problem with the status quo? Edited December 17, 2012 by Hudson Jones Quote When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always. Gandhi
bush_cheney2004 Posted December 17, 2012 Report Posted December 17, 2012 Isn't the problem that these people's can so easily access tools that can facilitate mass murder? Do you agree that there is a problem with that status quo? No..."mass murder" is an emotional hot button that really ignores the vast majority of gun shootings in the U.S., Canada, and other nations. We don't convict guns for crimes, we convict people or commit them to nut houses (at least we used to). Frankly, I am surprised that there are fewer homicides by firearm given the increasing population and number of guns in circulation. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Hudson Jones Posted December 17, 2012 Report Posted December 17, 2012 No..."mass murder" is an emotional hot button that really ignores the vast majority of gun shootings in the U.S., Canada, and other nations. We don't convict guns for crimes, we convict people or commit them to nut houses (at least we used to). Frankly, I am surprised that there are fewer homicides by firearm given the increasing population and number of guns in circulation. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you seem to be okay with continuing as is. That we should accept and expect that these mass shootings are going to happen once in a while. Quote When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always. Gandhi
Hudson Jones Posted December 17, 2012 Report Posted December 17, 2012 Except for a few examples, why do these mass school killings only happy in America? Why are there people who defend for it to continue? Quote When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always. Gandhi
Guest Derek L Posted December 17, 2012 Report Posted December 17, 2012 This would do nothing for private party purchases in the U.S. I bought my first 9mm automatic handgun (Taurus 92F) from the back of a car trunk in a parking lot. It was delivered in full retail packaging inside a paper bag. It was a cash deal, and perfectly legal. Well true, the “spirit” behind our laws, even with private sales, ( just picked up a sweet little old Marlin model 99 M1 carbine for my kid in much the same way) is that a seller wouldn’t sell a firearm (or ammo) to an individual without a valid licence………For the most part, like most laws, the “honour system” works. Quote
Guest American Woman Posted December 17, 2012 Report Posted December 17, 2012 This is the part that doesn't make sense then if we disregard the differences in how our countries perceive guns.As per your post, both countries allow guns into the hands of people without asking too many questions about their mental-health. Both countries also plaster the names of killers on the news, 'glorifying' them. So what happened that the people living south of the 49th parallel ended up so many more incidents of senseless mass murder per capita than we did? Is it something in the water? If it's not the gun-culture that's rampant, then what? I'm still wondering how Vancouver ended up having so many more incidents of murder per capita than my small city. Both cities have drug users. So what happened to people in Vancouver? Is it something in the water? Perhaps it's the drug culture that's rampant. If not that, then what? Quote
Guest American Woman Posted December 17, 2012 Report Posted December 17, 2012 No..."mass murder" is an emotional hot button that really ignores the vast majority of gun shootings in the U.S., Canada, and other nations. This is true. They understandably get the most attention, but they by far account for a small minority of deaths. In fact, they account for less than 1/10 of 1% of all murders in general, according to Grant Duwe, who works for the Minnesota State Department of Corrections and is the author of Mass Murder in the United States: A History. http://news.national...of-all-murders/ As he says, “This is no consolation to those who have lost loved ones, but it’s important we keep these events in perspective.” Quote
Bryan Posted December 17, 2012 Report Posted December 17, 2012 I'm still wondering how Vancouver ended up having so many more incidents of murder per capita than my small city. Both cities have drug users. So what happened to people in Vancouver? Is it something in the water? Perhaps it's the drug culture that's rampant. If not that, then what? If I were to bluntly state what Vancouver's exact issue is, I'd probably be accused of being a racist. Quote
Black Dog Posted December 17, 2012 Report Posted December 17, 2012 If I were to bluntly state what Vancouver's exact issue is, I'd probably be accused of being a racist. What colour are the Bacon brothers again? Quote
Wilber Posted December 17, 2012 Report Posted December 17, 2012 Did the British Empire have a constitution with gun rights ? Nope...it had half-assed rights for the serfs and a ruling monarch. Your system of laws and ideas to representative democracy have their roots in Britain, not your revolutionary ally France which was ruled by an absolute monarch at the time. Supposedly, a major reason for your revolution was your being denied the same representation as other Britons. No, we don't have a constitution with gun rights but our citizens still have access to guns. We are able to change our laws to suit our needs. We can make them stricter or more liberal and if we get something wrong, we have the ability to change it back. Laws are always a work in progress and our gun laws are no different. You on the other hand have stuck yourself in the 18th century with no way of getting out. This isn't an 18th century society any more where someone with a lot of skill and practice might be able to fire 3 inaccurate rounds a minute from his smooth bore musket. Now, a crazy with a little cunning, the right weapon and almost no skill and training can kill tens if not dozens and you don't seem to have any way of dealing with that. So spare me the wonderfulness of your constitutional gun rights Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.