First nations patiences waning

[cybercoma]

I live with these boyos and their native 'ways'. No amount of PC jibber-jab will alter what I've seen over the decades re: Native life-style. Sorry.

In other words, you're racist, so no reasonable argument will persuade you. Good to know I'm wasting my time.

[cybercoma]

This is the story of many immigrants who come here and they managed. Being a victim is does not excuse the failure of native society to move beyond the past do what every immigrant has had to do. The idea that treaties or more cash are going to change anything is pathetically naive. In fact, people like you who pander to this victim mythology are enablers who supply the addict with drugs which destroy the addict's life.

This argument is so fundamentally flawed that I can't even believe you're posting it.

We are the immigrants on the First Nations' lands.

And besides that it completely ignores the crux of my argument.

Edited February 17, 2013 by cybercoma

[DogOnPorch]

In other words, you're racist, so no reasonable argument will persuade you. Good to know I'm wasting my time.

I live with them...you do not, apparently. But, it is good to see you know where your racist card is.

[TimG]

We are the immigrants on the First Nations' lands.

So what? The question is why are so many native societies basket cases today when for they have had access to all of the opportunities open to immigrants.

And besides that it completely ignores the crux of my argument.

You mean the part where you try to rationalize failure today because people did bad things to their great grand parents? I am saying that is not an excuse. Edited February 17, 2013 by TimG

[DogOnPorch]

So what? The question is why are so many native societies basket cases today when for they have had access to all of the opportunities open to immigrants.

You mean the part where you try to rationalize failure today because people did bad things to their great grand parents? I am saying that is not an excuse.

That's...that's...racism!

[cybercoma]

You mean the part where you try to rationalize failure today because people did bad things to their great grand parents? I am saying that is not an excuse.

No crap that's what you're saying and I clearly articulated why it's a problem and you've yet to address that.

[DogOnPorch]

No crap that's what you're saying and I clearly articulated why it's a problem and you've yet to address that.

Perhaps call him a racist and see if that helps.

[TimG]

No crap that's what you're saying and I clearly articulated why it's a problem and you've yet to address that.

Yes. Abstract entities...evil....got it. I read the point you tried to make but I don't see it the way you do. Any aboriginal had access to the same opportunities available to immigrants. This is true no matter what these 'abstract entities' did. The question is why didn't natives take advantage of those opportunities? Edited February 17, 2013 by TimG

[Accountability Now]

You do a business transaction with someone and they break the contract, screwing you out of the benefits you were to receive from that contract.

Using the treaties as a reference tell me what part of the contract was broken. I'm only looking at the objective contract and not some story of the intent passed along generations.

[cybercoma]

Any aboriginal had access to the same opportunities available to immigrants.

This is complete BS. Immigrants were not put into residential schools and aren't legislated from the cradle to the grave, as First Nations are. Your comparison is completely inept. Secondly, and I already said this, but you continue to ignore it, First Nations are not the immigrants here. We are the immigrants to whom they've licensed their land, and we did not meet up to our end of our licensing agreements.

[TimG]

This is complete BS. Immigrants were not put into residential schools and aren't legislated from the cradle to the grave, as First Nations are.

No aboriginal is required to submit to the indian act. They are only subject to it if they choose to claim benefits or live on a reserve. An aboriginal in the city has exactly the same rights as any immigrant. As for residential schools: some natives suffered horrible abuse and the government needs to compensate them. That does not excuse the majority who did not go to these schools or did not suffer abuse that was not normal for the time at any public school (corporal punishment was common in all schools 50+ years ago - as was a policy requiring assimilation - immigrants were punished for not speaking English at school).

First Nations are not the immigrants here.

Sure they are. They just immigrated in waves between 10,000 to 30,000 years ago. We don't have any record of what when on when successive waves of immigrants from Asia met the prior immigrants from Asia. But we do know complete assimilation was the end result. I doubt it was peaceful. Edited February 17, 2013 by TimG

[Michael Hardner]

In other words, you're racist, so no reasonable argument will persuade you. Good to know I'm wasting my time.

Cyber - please resist the temptation to devolve into insults.

[jacee]

Again you are going in circles. These people have the national and somewhat international spotlight. They can report the claims to the government and should not feel fear as its in the open.

I wouldn't feel scared now that its so public. However I would be scared if I knew my story was embellished or if there was more to it...which is why I believe these women aren't coming forward

The "governmenr" - ie Harper - has told them to just "get on with" reporting it to the RCMP.

They're not going to report abuse by RCMP officers to RCMP officers.

[jacee]

Using the treaties as a reference tell me what part of the contract was broken. I'm only looking at the objective contract and not some story of the intent passed along generations.

Which treaty? Which First Nation(s)?

Look it up yourself.

There used to be information on the government website about each specific claim that I could point you to, but the Tories appear to have stripped it all off, just to be "transparent and accountable", I'm sure.

You may have to check each First Nation website.

Edited February 17, 2013 by jacee

[sharkman]

This is complete BS. Immigrants were not put into residential schools and aren't legislated from the cradle to the grave, as First Nations are. Your comparison is completely inept. Secondly, and I already said this, but you continue to ignore it, First Nations are not the immigrants here. We are the immigrants to whom they've licensed their land, and we did not meet up to our end of our licensing agreements.

Look cyber, it's no longer their land. It's Canada now. They now live in one of the greatest nations in the world. They can have running water, indoor plumbing, heat and pickups and all the casinos they want. They simply need to get on with it and realize the good fortune at their fingertips. Join the human race, get some education. Many employers give preferential treatment to native Americans in the hiring process. Do something with their lives and these accomplishments will transform their lives for the better.

It's time to stop listening to the old ways and old timers who cling to their ways and religion. It's freedom baby!

[jacee]

Look cyber, it's no longer their land. It's Canada now.

You need to learn more about your country, Canada.

Canada has three founding peoples:

Indigenous, French, British.

Canada has three types of law:

Aboriginal law, French Civil Code, British Common Law

You need to learn the Constitution Act of Canada (1982)

http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/Const/page-16.html#docCont

RIGHTS OF THE ABORIGINAL PEOPLES OF CANADA

Recognition of existing aboriginal and treaty rights

35. (1) The existing aboriginal and treaty rights of the aboriginal peoples of Canada are hereby recognized and affirmed.

Definition of “aboriginal peoples of Canada”

(2) In this Act, “aboriginal peoples of Canada” includes the Indian, Inuit and Métis peoples of Canada.

Land claims agreements

(3) For greater certainty, in subsection (1) “treaty rights” includes rights that now exist by way of land claims agreements or may be so acquired.

http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/Const/page-15.html

Aboriginal rights and freedoms not affected by Charter

25. The guarantee in this Charter of certain rights and freedoms shall not be construed so as to abrogate or derogate from any aboriginal, treaty or other rights or freedoms that pertain to the aboriginal peoples of Canada including

(a) any rights or freedoms that have been recognized by the Royal Proclamation of October 7, 1763; and

( any rights or freedoms that now exist by way of land claims agreements or may be so acquired.

This may be of interest too:

http://www.aadnc-aandc.gc.ca/eng/1314977704533/1314977734895

A History of Treaty-Making in Canada

The impact of treaty making in Canada has been wide-ranging and long standing. The treaties the Crown has signed with Aboriginal peoples since the.18th century have permitted the evolution of Canada as we know it. In fact, much of Canada's land mass is covered by treaties. This treaty-making process, which has evolved over. more than 300 years between Aboriginal and non- Aboriginal people in Canada, has its origins in the early diplomatic relationship developed between European settlers and Aboriginal people. As the two parties made economic and military alliances, Canada began to take form. These diplomatic proceedings were the first steps in a long process that has led to today's comprehensive claims agreements between the Crown and Aboriginal groups.

[Accountability Now]

Which treaty? Which First Nation(s)?

Look it up yourself.

There used to be information on the government website about each specific claim that I could point you to, but the Tories appear to have stripped it all off, just to be "transparent and accountable", I'm sure.

You may have to check each First Nation website.

I have looked them up. They are still there and most importantly....I wasn't asking you. Your answers only run in circles and get no where. Cyber made the claim that the contract was broken and I'm asking Cyber to show me where!

[cybercoma]

Sure they are. They just immigrated in waves between 10,000 to 30,000 years ago.

Pedantic much?

[Accountability Now]

Pedantic much?

Cyber....which contracts were broken?

[jacee]

Cyber....which contracts were broken?

Well let's see ... All of the ones referenced in all land claims already settled, and likely most of the ones in those waiting to be settled and others still in preparation.

Too bad the feds removed all specific information from the website. You'd think as taxpayers we're entitled to see it.

[Peanutbutter]

Well let's see ... All of the ones referenced in all land claims already settled, and likely most of the ones in those waiting to be settled and others still in preparation.

Too bad the feds removed all specific information from the website. You'd think as taxpayers we're entitled to see it.

Lets see some specific examples. Show us the contracts and which sections were broken.

[sharkman]

You need to learn more about your country, Canada.

Canada has three founding peoples:

Indigenous, French, British.

Canada has three types of law:

Aboriginal law, French Civil Code, British Common Law

You need to learn the Constitution Act of Canada (1982) (blah blah blah...)

And all of these conflicting cultures and laws are directly responsible for why the Native American people are in such an awful state. They don't need more treaties and money, which their chiefs just blow and stick their hands out for more. They need to realize they live in one of the best countries in the world if they would just try. But I'm sure the likes of you will be on the wrong side of the road blocks next summer when protest season starts up.

[Accountability Now]

Well let's see ... All of the ones referenced in all land claims already settled, and likely most of the ones in those waiting to be settled and others still in preparation.

Too bad the feds removed all specific information from the website. You'd think as taxpayers we're entitled to see it.

That's funny...I thought I asked Cyber for an answer.

PS....the land claims were a result of bleeding heart courts. Not the treaties. Show me in the treaties where the contract was broken. Oh that's right...you can't!!!! I can quote you numerous parts where natives have broken the treaties but you won't hear that stuff with your head in the sand.

[jacee]

I can quote you numerous parts where natives have broken the treaties ...

Go ahead.

[jacee]

They need to realize they live in one of the best countries in the world ...

You need to realize that too.

And you need to educate yourself about what it really means to be Canadian.