First nations patiences waning

[jacee]

It is not generous to leave these people to a dependent state, with no requirement for self responsibility. A welfare mentality is destroying these once proud and self sufficient peoples.

I can agree with that.

So ... when will the government settle all the land claims and accounts to finally afford them the self-sufficiency they planned for themselves via the treaties?

[WIP]

And a sum of money is going to make it all better? I wasn't alive in 1907 so I don't see why I need to pay for this. I didn't do it. The FN people are perpetual victims, it's now in the way they are brought up as kids. They are taught by their parents that they are victims. It's sad that their parents aren't giving them a chance to succeed in life before they even start.

My last post applies to your line of thinking btw. How long do you think we can keep this bullshit running? Our system is running on fumes right now. Some of the latest economics reports on resource development are showing a clear trend indicating diminishing returns from resource exploitation. As actuary - Gail Tverberg, Richard Heinberg, and many other serious analysts who've studied the mining and resource industries have tried to point out over the last 10 years - resource extraction works by the principle of picking the low-hanging fruit first.

Well guess what! In most non-renewable resources, the low-hanging fruit is gone, and what's left requires more energy, more water and more capital investment to extract. this is the law of diminishing returns that have been ignored since the advent of the Enlightenment recategorized nature as inert and mere products available for us to freely exploit. During the last 150 years of the Industrial Era we have almost used up what is feasibly recoverable. So the only question that remains is will civilization collapse in the near future, or will it just keep grinding down until it disintegrates? Because I don't see the path to lead most people back to the pre-industrial view of having respect for nature and that's where issues as disparate as 'what to do about the natives' and 'how did our environment turn into such a clusterf**k' bump in to each other. Like I said before, if our ancestors who went about exploring, conquering, and christianizing new lands had taken the attitude that 'maybe people who've lived here for thousands of years might know a thing or two we can use' instead of 'God gave us this land, our ways are superior to everything else' history might have turned out a little different, and we may not have Iphones today, but we might also not have to ponder whether the human race will be extinct in a couple of centuries either!

For further reading: Our Investment Sinkhole Problem

[Peanutbutter]

I can agree with that.

So ... when will the government settle all the land claims and accounts to finally afford them the self-sufficiency they planned for themselves via the treaties?

The FN's want top be instant millionaires. The Canadian government should just pay each FN person a million dollars or two now and at birth forever and be done with it. I'm sick of hearing about them whining. I'm sick of the victim hood. Just pay them each a couple million bucks and let them do as they see fit with it. If they lose it, they lose it no more money is coming.

WIP- I don't care if we're extinct in a few centuries or not, I'll be dead so it won't matter much to me. I honestly really don't care about that at all.

Edited February 25, 2013 by Peanutbutter

[WIP]

Ah, yes; the romanticism of the noble savage.

Is better than manifest destiny and we're superior to savages!

[DogOnPorch]

Can't help noticing that your responses to all incidents of injustice suffered by non-whites are stupid, racist and/or just plain irrelevant!

I can't help notice that you attack my character...like you even know me...rather than admit polio, TB, flu, variola, syphilis etc affects EVERYBODY. This POS CBC story makes out like this was some sort of Treblinka-like affair going on when, in fact, these horrible illnesses cut a swath through the entire planet. Cramped troop ships returning soldiers from WW1 spread the Spanish Flu globally. What's the conspiracy theory about that? Make sure you bring up the Rothschilds and John Paul Getty a few times. Make yer tale more exciting.

[DogOnPorch]

I find your comment disgusting.

You need to educate yourself.

Holier than thou, eh?

[jacee]

it's a truthful statement. They FN were living as savages, as the Europeans saw it, and they wanted to rid them of that. I don't see what's disgusting about a true statement. I am quite educated, thank you.

But not well informed.

[sonny45]

That is slowly happening as the general public understands the issues. This does not mean that the treaties should give away vast resources to a small number of people. A system that allows natives to participate in the economy, particularly resource development, is appropriate, but a veto on development is not.

[jacee]

One thing the haters can't buy a clue on is that the main goal of residential schooling was to destroy family life and culture of indigenous societies whose children were forced into the residential schooling system. As with many things, once it's broken, it's very hard to fix afterwards! .

Quite true.

The court-ordered Truth and Reconciliation Commission has been operating for a few years now, and is just beginning to get to the truth - ie, that the schools were part of the government strategy to re-program Indigenous Peoples, assimilate them and eliminate their cultures.

Making their ceremonies illegal was another strategy.

[jacee]

Holier than thou, eh?

I've never made any claim to being "Holy".

[g_bambino]

[W]hen will the government settle all the land claims and accounts to finally afford them the self-sufficiency they planned for themselves via the treaties?

What, exactly, does "afford them the self-suffciency" mean?

[sonny45]

Should natives be able to stop economic development, ie pipelines to the west coast?

[Peanutbutter]

This is just more white liberal guilt talking. Nothing to see here.

[g_bambino]

The court-ordered Truth and Reconciliation Commission has been operating for a few years now, and is just beginning to get to the truth - ie, that the schools were part of the government strategy to re-program Indigenous Peoples, assimilate them and eliminate their cultures.

I didn't think that was ever in question. The dispute seems to centre around whether this was done maliciously or with good intentions. I've never seen any concrete proof of maliciousness on the part of the churches or government; when regarded contemporaneously, it appears more as though these organisations thought they were doing a good, overall.

Making their ceremonies illegal was another strategy...

Cite, please.

[DogOnPorch]

I've never made any claim to being "Holy".

Oh no...you have. If we disagree, I'm simply not at your level of enlightenment and need to educate ourselves. Where do I make the appropriate sacrifice?

What, exactly, does "afford them the self-suffciency" mean?

Indeed. In my neck o' the woods, the Natives are quite well-off. Swell trucks.

[Canuckistani]

And had the churches and state been more successful we wouldn't have the problems we do today. How exactly is FN culture different from ours? They seem to have the same material wants as we do - many of then just live under the illusions they get to be landlords and collect rent without working for those material wants. I think any rational person knows it's not feasible for them to truly live in the traditional ways, and most FN's don't seem inclined to do so. To function in modern Canada they need to know English or French and work at something. They are a smalll minority, but are of course welcome to try to keep their laguages and cultural customs alive, same as immigrants do, but if they want what we've got, they've got to live more or less as we do. Yes, they were abused in the past, but decrying assimilation just seems like bullshit to me. Can't have what the white man has but live like your ancestors did.

[DogOnPorch]

Should natives be able to stop economic development, ie pipelines to the west coast?

It's certainly an option...and one many Northern British Columbians are keen on...not just Natives. Not much in it for the North except all the risks...as usual.

[Peanutbutter]

Del

Edited February 25, 2013 by Peanutbutter

[Peanutbutter]

Its going to get built so they need to keep quiet or we need to arrest them or something. Its for the good of Canada.

[DogOnPorch]

Its going to get built so they need to keep quiet or we need to arrest them or something. Its for the good of Canada.

Super tanker accidents are not for the good of Canada. If you know the conditions of the Inside Passage, you'll know it's no place for ships that large. But, you'll hear 'experts' trying to convince you otherwise.

[jacee]

I didn't think that was ever in question. The dispute seems to centre around whether this was done maliciously or with good intentions. I've never seen any concrete proof of maliciousness on the part of the churches or government; when regarded contemporaneously, it appears more as though these organisations thought they were doing a good, overall.

The government knew that children were dying from crowding/ disease ... and did nothing.

Cite, please.

The Potlatch Ban occurred in 1885, [1] when the government of the Dominion of Canada passed legislation outlawing the Native Canadian potlatch ceremony.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potlatch_ban#section_5

The gov used "potlatch" generally to refer to any gatherings and ceremonies.

Edited February 25, 2013 by jacee

[sonny45]

It's certainly an option...and one many Northern British Columbians are keen on...not just Natives. Not much in it for the North except all the risks...as usual.

It's billions of $ for Canada. We get twice as much for our oil and four times as much for our gas.

[Fletch 27]

When "Idle no More" is completely "Idle no-where"... I dont see what the issue is with forcing the pipline debate in the westward direction...

[DogOnPorch]

It's billions of $ for Canada. We get twice as much for our oil and four times as much for our gas.

Until a Supertanker spills its load.

[DogOnPorch]

The government knew that children were dying from crowding/ disease ... and did nothing.

The Potlatch Ban occurred in 1885, [1] when the government of the Dominion of Canada passed legislation outlawing the Native Canadian potlatch ceremony.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Potlatch_Ban_(Canada)#section_2

The gov used "potlatch" generally to refer to any gatherings and ceremonies.

Generally, the church had trouble understanding why chiefs would put their tribes in jeopardy in order to out-do each other in terms to gift giving. Eating-up all one's winter stocks in a weekend, etc. Pot-Latches in BC involved lots of conspicuous consumption. Not an issue today. Pot-Latches are now an excuse for a good party.

Edited February 25, 2013 by DogOnPorch