First nations patiences waning

[bush_cheney2004]

There is truly only one long term solution.

Doesn't sound too good for the natives!

[WWWTT]

Where's charter.rights when you need him?

He got banned from making comments in my Attawapiskat thread

WWWTT

[jacee]

There was just recently a very large First Nations-Crown conference in Ottawa.

Jan 2012 ... and Harper showed up only to deliver his agenda and do the photo ops.

It was a beginning, but I think they're looking for more substance.

[Guest]

He got banned from making comments in my Attawapiskat thread

WWWTT

Does that thread still exist? I want to see what kind of comments lead to a banning, as opposed to warning points.

Or was it that he already had a fisful of those?

[tommg6]

Theresa Spence is a crook. I actually support bill c-27 which forces First Nations chief and councils to display their salaries. And this is coming from someone who has some First Nation descent. Part of the problem with places like Attawapiskat is that people like Therese Spence. C'mon its so obvious she's pocketing the money that Ottawa sends. I had enough of this BS, Stephen Harper should press down on these crooked chiefs and teach them a thing about accountability.

[Moonbox]

Yes that's true, as it should be.

Do you have concerns about the way constitutional law has evolved thus far?

Not really, but there are limitations to how the Treaties are interpreted. That's all I'm saying.

The culture of helplessness is more a result of six generations of residential school abuse than anything else. They 'broke' the children intentionally, to force them to adopt the new culture. You will notice that many more in the younger generations are managing to throw off that helplessness, and become activist.

Yeah...that's why...I mean, everything was just perfect for them BEFORE that....

Are you aware that there's a diamond mine in Attawapiskat's traditional territory? Under current law, they are entitled to a share in those revenues as which could lift them out of poverty and dependency.

However, the government refuses to facilitate the development of an agreement, though they're the only ones who can do that, according to the Supreme Court.

ANYWHERE ELSE in Canada, the diamond mine would employ the locals and the community would lift ITSELF out of dependence. The broken nature of the Reserves, however, makes sure that doesn't happen.

[jacee]

Theresa Spence is a crook. I actually support bill c-27 which forces First Nations chief and councils to display their salaries. And this is coming from someone who has some First Nation descent. Part of the problem with places like Attawapiskat is that people like Therese Spence. C'mon its so obvious she's pocketing the money that Ottawa sends. I had enough of this BS, Stephen Harper should press down on these crooked chiefs and teach them a thing about accountability.

I agree about accountability, and most Bands,

including Attawapiskat since 2005, already post their financial statements.

But I doubt Chief Spence would be drawing this much attention to herself if she was "crooked", and Ottawa'third party manager' and a judge scrutinized their finances and found everything in order.

Unless you have evidence, you'd be wise not to defame someone in error.

Edited December 14, 2012 by jacee

[jacee]

Yeah...that's why...I mean, everything was just perfect for them BEFORE that....

Not sure what that means.

Not sure I want to know.

[jacee]

Aboriginal resource rights are here to stay

http://beaconnews.ca/blog/2012/12/aboriginal-resource-rights-are-here-to-stay/

The recent scuffle outside the lobby of the House of Commons between Aboriginal leaders and the Commons security guards is likely only the opening salvo in what could be a long and protracted battle over Canada’s natural resource wealth.

If the government’s relationship with Aboriginal leaders heads in the direction of greater conflict much of the prosperity that has been projected for Canada will be at risk. So, too, will be a once-in-a-century opportunity to rebuild the economic and social fabric of Aboriginal communities across the country.

Happily, confrontation is not the only direction available. Canada has the tools needed to create constructive resolutions that unlock real opportunity for Aboriginal and non-Aboriginal Canadians alike. A simple question remains: will we choose to use these tools?

… a long string of Indigenous constitutional and legal victories and the rising value of Canada’s natural resource bounty … have placed Aboriginal Canadians in the vital centre of this country’s economic future, with the authority and motivation to insist on getting their share out of future development.

Harper's government has a choice to make: Address Aboriginal resource revenues by negotiating a fair deal with them, or face increasing disruption and delay in developments and operations.

Like De Beers in Attawapiskat, most companies insist that Aboriginal revenues have to come out of Canada's share. ( Examples) The federal government refuses to discuss it with the Chiefs.

Thus ... Idle no more, the Native winter, the new and now powerful Aboriginal rights movement.

Edited December 14, 2012 by jacee

[Moonbox]

Not sure what that means.

It means that the First Nations weren't prosperous before the residential schools. They were poor and uneducated before, and that's part of the reason the program was enacted. The schools are not responsible for poverty on the reserve. The reserve system itself is.

[bush_cheney2004]

If First Nations were not prosperous before, how could taking their land and resources make things any better now? Seems to me they "prospered" for thousands of years.

[Evening Star]

Well, what would be wrong with converting reserves to private property under the ownership of bands or band members, property that could be sold or exploited for profit?

Edit: I don't this would exactly be 'taking' their land and resources.

Edited December 14, 2012 by Evening Star

[g_bambino]

Jan 2012 ... and Harper showed up only to deliver his agenda and do the photo ops.

Why is the presence of the prime minister through every minute of every meeting at all necessary? Or, if not, how much of his time is required and why? People complain about the concentration of power in the PMO, yet, at the same time, treat other ministers in Cabinet as nobodies and demand the prime minister take care of everything personally.

It was a beginning, but I think they're looking for more substance.

I imagine it was a beginning. But the fact that it happened alone puts to bed these claims that parliament is seeking to make changes to the Indian Act and enact other laws without any input from First Nations and Inuit leaders. I'm sure there's been other meetings between FN&I and government officials, as well. And these bills will have to go through Commons and Senate committees, where FN&I leaders can make their opinions known.

[jacee]

It means that the First Nations weren't prosperous before the residential schools. They were poor and uneducated before, and that's part of the reason the program was enacted. The schools are not responsible for poverty on the reserve. The reserve system itself is.

The comment was about the schools' purpose of indoctrination and denial of culture and how, over six generations of such abuse, destruction of families, children, rights and communities, Indigenous people succumbed to feelings of helplessness and dependency.

As Harper said:

The government now recognizes that the consequences of the Indian Residential Schools policy were profoundly negative and that this policy has had a lasting and damaging impact on Aboriginal culture, heritage and language. While some former students have spoken positively about their experiences at residential schools, these stories are far overshadowed by tragic accounts of the emotional, physical and sexual abuse and neglect of helpless children, and their separation from powerless families and communities.

http://www.pm.gc.ca/eng/media.asp?id=2149

Six generations ... over 100 years.

It doesn't fix itself quickly.

[jacee]

Why is the presence of the prime minister through every minute of every meeting at all necessary? Or, if not, how much of his time is required and why? People complain about the concentration of power in the PMO, yet, at the same time, treat other ministers in Cabinet as nobodies and demand the prime minister take care of everything personally.

Nobody has any decision-making power but Harper.

His virtual absence was a clear signal of ... no change.

[g_bambino]

Nobody has any decision-making power but Harper.

Harper doesn't create or amend laws.

His virtual absence was a clear signal of ... no change.

That's your interpretation. Others obviously see it differently, since they're complaining about changes being made without what they think is required input.

[ed.: +]

Edited December 14, 2012 by g_bambino

[jacee]

Harper doesn't create or amend laws.

???

Of course he does.

[jacee]

Well, what would be wrong with converting reserves to private property under the ownership of bands or band members, property that could be sold or exploited for profit?

Edit: I don't this would exactly be 'taking' their land and resources.

I think that's up to them.

I don't think anything like that should be imposed on them without their agreement.

[Smallc]

And the continuation as current shouldn't be imposed on any of us any longer. It's hurting everyone (except me - it makes me lots of money).

[g_bambino]

Of course he does.

Of course he does not.

[cybercoma]

Harper doesn't create or amend laws.

He completely controls his party and the way Peter Van Loan has been talking lately, this may as well be a dictatorship because the Conservative backbench sure as hell isn't holding the cabinet accountable.

[Smallc]

So, you've been to their caucus meetings, I'm assuming.

[jacee]

g_bambino, on 14 December 2012 - 01:05 PM, said:

Harper doesn't create or amend laws.

Jacee said:

??? Of course he does.

Of course he does not.

Harper can write and pass any legislation - ie laws - that he wants.

Here's a list of pending legislation

- ie soon-to-be laws -

currently of concern to First Nations:

... http://m.facebook.co...user=1311501707

•Bill C-27: First Nations Financial Transparency Act

•Bill C-45: Jobs and Growth Act, 2012 [Omnibus Bill includes Indian Act amendments regarding voting on-reserve lands surrenders/designations]

• Bill S-2: Family Homes on Reserves and Matrimonial Interests or Rights Act

• Bill S-6: First Nations Elections Act

• Bill S-8: Safe Drinking Water for First Nations

• Bill C-428: Indian Act Amendment and Replacement Act [Private Conservative MP’s Bill, but supported by Harper government]

Then there are the Senate Public Bills:

•Bill S-207: An Act to amend the Interpretation Act (non derogation of aboriginal and treaty rights)

• Bill S-212: First Nations Self-Government Recognition Bill

Edited December 15, 2012 by jacee

[Battletoads]

Genocide had become unpopular by then.

Ridiculous hyperbole. It's people like you who are at fault for the current situation. You prevent any form of rational discussion on the issue, and rabidly attack any proposed changes. The current system has never worked. The current system will never work. The current system is a failure in every measurable metric. It's decades past the time when we should have abandoned it for the system that has worked far better in the case of every single minority group subject to it, equality.

[Moonbox]

He completely controls his party and the way Peter Van Loan has been talking lately, this may as well be a dictatorship because the Conservative backbench sure as hell isn't holding the cabinet accountable.

I guess that means that, as a whole, they like what he's done and is doing for the party. If enough of them didn't like what he's doing, they'd band together and abandon him. This is not the case, and so your pathetic/ridiculous claims have about as much merit as dog crap on a sidewalk.