Unions Using Teachers Using Students

[Big Guy]

OPSEU, a 32,000 member public service union has just negotiated a contract with the provincial government. They have negotiated for 700 hours and have accepted a - get this – A TWO YEAR PAY FREEZE! – basically the same financial package as the teachers. The teachers negotiated for 1 hour before walking out a couple months ago. For Ontario Public Service Employees Union, no strike, no “job actions” no agitating the public. The average teacher wage is $80,000 a year, the average OPSEU member wage is $45,000 a year. I am no fan of the provincial Liberals but does anybody think that this settlement would have taken place if the province had not come down hard on the teachers? We have to deal with the $16 billion deficit.

[Boges]

Remember the wage freeze isn't really the issue. It's automatic grid raises, a reduction of sick days to 10 and taking away banked sick days.

I don't believe the imposed contract has been made public. So I don't know how the Bill 115 contract deals with those contentious issues.

Perhaps MCC can fill us in :-D

[Mighty AC]

So the protest was deemed illegal, but it still created chaos for parents. Teachers should worry more about their image and demand more accountability from their unions. The face it paints for them isn't a good one.

[Mighty AC]

Remember the wage freeze isn't really the issue. It's automatic grid raises, a reduction of sick days to 10 and taking away banked sick days.

I don't believe the imposed contract has been made public. So I don't know how the Bill 115 contract deals with those contentious issues.

Perhaps MCC can fill us in :-D

The grid isn't completely frozen. The banked sick days will be paid to those with 10+ years experience and those with less get 10% of their days paid out. Plus teachers can bank up to 120 days, to be used for longer term illnesses. They will be paid 100% for those days and still receive 2/3 pay when they run out, prior to STD insurance kicking in. In addition to the 10 days every year, teachers will also receive 4 family care days and 1 personal care day for a total of 15 paid days off.

How many paid days off, in addition to holidays, do you get? I get zero.

[WWWTT]

You might note that collaboration among unions on the federal, provincial and municipal service areas is not only with precedent but also common and an effective negotiating tactic. Thank you for your opinion. I stand by my statements.

Yes this is true.

Furthermore Building trade unions also collaborate,Pipe fitting unions,electrical unions,etc,etc.

Police forces collaborate,different levels of government are also guilty of the same thing.

Furthermore many unions in the west supported activists like Nelson Mandela when he was locked up in Jail in South Africa for demanding EQUAL RIGHTS!!!

WWWTT

[Michael Hardner]

So the protest was deemed illegal, but it still created chaos for parents. Teachers should worry more about their image and demand more accountability from their unions. The face it paints for them isn't a good one.

The Union called off the protest after it was deemed illegal, though.

[WWWTT]

I fear that what will remain in tatters will be the total positive school experience for our children and the reputation of the teaching profession.

Actually because unions set the standards higher among their staff,the teachers will continue to deliver better level and standard to their students.

But of course the positive impacts of a strong democratic organization does not fit your agenda so you will ignore the facts once again

WWWTT

[MiddleClassCentrist]

So the protest was deemed illegal, but it still created chaos for parents. Teachers should worry more about their image and demand more accountability from their unions. The face it paints for them isn't a good one.

Sect 14 of Bill 115 prohibited OLRB from considering constitutionality of Bill 115 even though they always have considered these issues.

This ruling was fixed, and awaits a court decision.

[Mighty AC]

The Union called off the protest after it was deemed illegal, though.

Cancelling the protest last minute still generated bad blood among parents with elementary school aged children. Some boards cancelled the day in advance, so they could provide parents with some clear direction. Others required parents to listen to the news this morning to determine if schools were open.

Parents still had to scramble to find day care or book the day off work. I play hockey with some guys that had to use a vacation day today and they weren't very happy about it.

Teachers should really start demanding better from their union leaders.

[Boges]

The teachers still caused disruption. If they try this again, the Union should be fined in advance for threatening an illegal act

[MiddleClassCentrist]

The teachers still caused disruption. If they try this again, the Union should be fined in advance for threatening an illegal act

Why don't we ever target the real evils in society? The wealthy are very good at getting regular people to point the finger at other regular people... They have money to spread their propaganda and target workers who are organized enough to counter it.

http://www.moveon.org/share/72e232/hollywood-legend-ed-asner-has-outraged-republicans?rc=share-41e290

[MiddleClassCentrist]

"Only 43% of Ontarians could correctly pinpoint the source of the unions’ complaints while 40% of respondents falsely believed the fight was over compensation and sick days and another 20% admitted they “don’t know.”"

Why do they admit, in a Poll, that it is a false accusation... yet in their articles promote that the government is saying that it is only about compensation?

http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/01/11/ontarians-angry-at-mcguintys-handling-of-teachers-dispute-but-more-miffed-at-the-pampered-teachers-poll/

[Mighty AC]

Their complaints were about compensation before they later shifted to be about labour rights. The first bullet point in the list of ETFO negotiation goals was a "Real salary increase".

[MiddleClassCentrist]

Their complaints were about compensation before they later shifted to be about labour rights. The first bullet point in the list of ETFO negotiation goals was a "Real salary increase".

Maybe BEFORE they went to the bargaining table. The Drummond report wanted to gut education too but, it never made it to the bargaining table.

[Mighty AC]

Yeah, neither did ETFO...I think they lasted 1 hour. Time for teachers to demand better from their unions.

[MiddleClassCentrist]

Yeah, neither did ETFO...I think they lasted 1 hour. Time for teachers to demand better from their unions.

The only union that signed the original MoU faces Labour board challenges from their own members for violating procedure and refusing to get their members to vote on it.

[Boges]

So Bill 115 gets repealed on January 23rd. How can they do that without a vote in the commons?

Of course since a contract was already imposed so it doesn't change anything at all.

[MiddleClassCentrist]

So Bill 115 gets repealed on January 23rd. How can they do that without a vote in the commons?

Of course since a contract was already imposed so it doesn't change anything at all.

Because of the over reaching power that they gave the Minister of Education in the bill itself? They don't have to face/answer to ANYONE when it comes to Education with that bill in place.

I'd bet good money in it violating the charter/constitution if they have to repeal it after it was used.

I think it's pretty horrendous, they use the bill and then repeal it. It's like shooting someone after preaching that guns are evil and need to be destroyed, then destroying the weapon.

Teachers could have waited until now to do their political protest. Because now that the Bill will be repealed, the OLRB would be able to evaluate the constitutionality/whether the conditions set upon teachers are valid.

With the repeal of the bill, boards of education(employer) and local unions can mutually agree to rip up the contracts (not likely, but possible).

What I don't understand, is that any negotiations would have to meet the fiscal restraints set out by the government anyways... why did they need to pass that poorly written, draconian legislation?

[Wayward Son]

So Bill 115 gets repealed on January 23rd. How can they do that without a vote in the commons?

It is a little sad to see that someone has spent dozens of posts vociferously supporting a bill they know nothing about. It is why ideology should never trump evidence. That should be a learning experience. Sadly it rarely is.

[Boges]

I fully understand that the bill allows the user government to impose a contract. What am I missing? I don't like defending this government but the concessions that were imposed were needed. Many unions were able to negotiate a deal.

[Mighty AC]

What I don't understand, is that any negotiations would have to meet the fiscal restraints set out by the government anyways... why did they need to pass that poorly written, draconian legislation?

Time frame maybe? Negotiations lasted 10 months, ETFO showed up for an hour. Even Buzz blasted them for that. How long should negotiations proceed when some parties refuse to participate?

[punked]

I fully understand that the bill allows the user government to impose a contract. What am I missing? I don't like defending this government but the concessions that were imposed were needed. Many unions were able to negotiate a deal.

You must make teachers essential if you want to impose a contract on them, then when you need a contract you go to an arbitrator who is fair and takes into account of both sides. The Government can't just go around forcing contracts on everyone because the "government needs it". Where does it stop? Tomorrow everyone earns 5 dollars an hour regardless of the job because "the government needs it". That isn't going to fly.

[punked]

Know why the Liberals passed this Bill? Because they had two Bi-elections and were getting killed by the Cons on this issue. The NDP ending up winning in the end.

[Boges]

Well if that's true then the NDP should expect the new leader to go back on the imposed contract or force an election.

[punked]

Well if that's true then the NDP should expect the new leader to go back on the imposed contract or force an election.

Nope they are trying to bury the Bill before the courts throw it out for violating the Charter.