Mighty AC Posted January 7, 2013 Report Posted January 7, 2013 No teacher in their right mind was going to sign onto losing all their banked sick days. Sorry to tell you, that was the sicking point and why the government was never going to reach a deal. The government moved on that a long time ago. Teachers with 10 years experience get their banked days paid, teachers under 10 years get 10% paid out. Its a very reasonable deal, but no union wants to lose. I have never been a fan of Dalton's administration but they deserve a pat on the back on this issue. They managed to cut costs, which was absolutely required, without firing teachers, boosting class sizes, killing all day daycare all without a strike. There may be continued work to rule campaigns, but education itself is safe and that will just harm the union's support for the next round of concession in 2 years. Quote "Our lives begin to end the day we stay silent about the things that matter." - Martin Luther King Jr"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities" - Voltaire
Mighty AC Posted January 7, 2013 Report Posted January 7, 2013 How about charging the boomers more, since they aren't paying enough into the system to support their entitlements... the younger generations have to... Power in numbers. The boomers will have their asses kissed until they die. Me first and the gimme, gimmes... Quote "Our lives begin to end the day we stay silent about the things that matter." - Martin Luther King Jr"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities" - Voltaire
August1991 Posted January 7, 2013 Report Posted January 7, 2013 (edited) Education delivery is changing. With information at our fingertips, student learning can be much more independent.Each generation passes on to the next its genes. Education is similar, but we pass on knowledge in a haphazard, even dumb way (compared to the sophistication of our gene transfer).It's plainly obvious that the way we educate our young will change soon. Our current method of transferring knowledge from generation to generaton is terribly wasteful, and inefficient. Edited January 7, 2013 by August1991 Quote
Mighty AC Posted January 7, 2013 Report Posted January 7, 2013 The transformation from teachers as spewers of information to teachers as facilitators in a student directed learning process is underway. IMO, the future of education will be grade-less, creative, collaborative and project based. Quote "Our lives begin to end the day we stay silent about the things that matter." - Martin Luther King Jr"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities" - Voltaire
DFCaper Posted January 7, 2013 Report Posted January 7, 2013 No teacher in their right mind was going to sign onto losing all their banked sick days. Sorry to tell you, that was the sicking point and why the government was never going to reach a deal. So I guess Bill 115 was necessary and a proper move by McGuinty? That the only way to deal in difficult times with public sector unions, is to reduce their rights? Maybe we should just permanently change the rules for Public Sector unions to weaken them to where they can negotiate in proper faith... Banked Sick days were an unreasonable concession by government previously, so the only way to fix it is to have legislation like Bill 115. Win some, lose some.... Quote "Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it" - Hellen Keller "Success is not measured by the heights one attains, but by the obstacles one overcomes in its attainment" - Booker T. Washington
Mighty AC Posted January 9, 2013 Report Posted January 9, 2013 ETFO will be striking this Friday...though I'm sure they have the needs of students at heart. I may have more sympathy for that particular union if they actually showed up at the negotiation table. I believe this will be an illegal strike now and the union will be fined. Anyone know how fine amounts are calculated? Quote "Our lives begin to end the day we stay silent about the things that matter." - Martin Luther King Jr"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities" - Voltaire
Boges Posted January 9, 2013 Report Posted January 9, 2013 (edited) Long weekend the first week out of Christmas Break Way to win the support of parents teachers!!! If Laurel Broten doesn't do anything she'll lose all credibility. Wait she doesn't have any. Edited January 9, 2013 by Boges Quote
Michael Hardner Posted January 9, 2013 Report Posted January 9, 2013 Long weekend the first week out of Christmas Break Way to win the support of parents teacher!!! If Laurel Broten doesn't do anything she'll lose all credibility. Wait she doesn't have any. I think the govt. should count their blessings. They imposed the contract and got a 1 day strike out of it ? Seems like a win to me. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
Boges Posted January 9, 2013 Report Posted January 9, 2013 (edited) A week after a 2-week break and 2 or 3 weeks before the break they were doing rotating strikes. That's 2 days lost due to strike action in 2 or 3 weeks of actual class time. The strikes before Christmas were legal, these ones aren't. Edited January 9, 2013 by Boges Quote
Mighty AC Posted January 9, 2013 Report Posted January 9, 2013 I think the govt. should count their blessings. They imposed the contract and got a 1 day strike out of it ? Seems like a win to me. It is certainly a win for the government. I don't fault them at all. If ETFO wants to spend member dues on fines while simultaneously eroding public opinion, so be it. I may have a little more sympathy for them if they had spent more than 1 hour at the table while some Catholic unions negotiated for 300. Quote "Our lives begin to end the day we stay silent about the things that matter." - Martin Luther King Jr"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities" - Voltaire
MiddleClassCentrist Posted January 10, 2013 Report Posted January 10, 2013 It is certainly a win for the government. I don't fault them at all. If ETFO wants to spend member dues on fines while simultaneously eroding public opinion, so be it. I may have a little more sympathy for them if they had spent more than 1 hour at the table while some Catholic unions negotiated for 300. Mike Harris learned that you can't declare political protest illegal. 2 weeks of the 90's strike was political protest... In a democracy, if you declare political protest illegal, you aren't living in a democracy anymore. Quote Ideology does not make good policy. Good policy comes from an analysis of options, comparison of options and selection of one option that works best in the current situation. This option is often a compromise between ideologies.
MiddleClassCentrist Posted January 10, 2013 Report Posted January 10, 2013 A week after a 2-week break and 2 or 3 weeks before the break they were doing rotating strikes. That's 2 days lost due to strike action in 2 or 3 weeks of actual class time. The strikes before Christmas were legal, these ones aren't. Not a strike. Political protest. Learn the difference. A strike is against the employers (School Boards). A political protest is against the government. You can't declare protest against the government illegal. HOWEVER; school boards do have the right to penalize workers who fail to show up to their job site. Quote Ideology does not make good policy. Good policy comes from an analysis of options, comparison of options and selection of one option that works best in the current situation. This option is often a compromise between ideologies.
Mighty AC Posted January 10, 2013 Report Posted January 10, 2013 They can call it what they like but their re-branded strike will erode any support they had with parents. Quote "Our lives begin to end the day we stay silent about the things that matter." - Martin Luther King Jr"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities" - Voltaire
MiddleClassCentrist Posted January 10, 2013 Report Posted January 10, 2013 They can call it what they like but their re-branded strike will erode any support they had with parents. Why do people expect them to bend over and lube up? Is that what you would do? Quote Ideology does not make good policy. Good policy comes from an analysis of options, comparison of options and selection of one option that works best in the current situation. This option is often a compromise between ideologies.
Boges Posted January 10, 2013 Report Posted January 10, 2013 No they expect them to wait until their case us heard in court. I just heard the province might try to fine anyone that walks off the job $2000. Quote
Guest Manny Posted January 10, 2013 Report Posted January 10, 2013 Poor teachers. If they strike, they might have to pay a $2000 dollar fine each. If they don't listen to their unions, what happens? Quote
Boges Posted January 10, 2013 Report Posted January 10, 2013 (edited) Poor teachers. If they strike, they might have to pay a $2000 dollar fine each. If they don't listen to their unions, what happens? Today Dalton is going to the Labour Relations Board to get the "protest" called illegal. Then, I suppose, they can impose these fines. Apparently the Unions can get fined upwards of $25,000 too. If the Unions can fine teachers $500 for not participating in job action (which they were threatening), I don't see why the Province can't charge teacher's for walking off the job. Edited January 10, 2013 by Boges Quote
Guest Manny Posted January 10, 2013 Report Posted January 10, 2013 I see, so that's what I was getting at. The teachers choice is to pay either $500 or $2000. Schools closed either way, giving money to the lawyers instead. Quote
Boges Posted January 10, 2013 Report Posted January 10, 2013 (edited) It's a divide and conquer tactic. It'll separate the people who really believe this contract infringes on their rights and those who are just afraid of Union. This could get very dirty, especially if pro-teachers or pro-Bill 115 delegates clash at the Liberal leadership convention later this month. As someone who's very Anti Ontario Liberals, I LOVE IT! Edited January 10, 2013 by Boges Quote
Mighty AC Posted January 10, 2013 Report Posted January 10, 2013 Why do people expect them to bend over and lube up? Is that what you would do?While other unions spent 300 hours at the barganing table, ETFO showed up for just 1. The process lasted 10 months and I believe the concessions are necessary and the contract is fair. I expect they will face further concessions in 2 years time. So yes, I suggest they lube up for comfort. Quote "Our lives begin to end the day we stay silent about the things that matter." - Martin Luther King Jr"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities" - Voltaire
Mighty AC Posted January 10, 2013 Report Posted January 10, 2013 Today Dalton is going to the Labour Relations Board to get the "protest" called illegal. Then, I suppose, they can impose these fines. Apparently the Unions can get fined upwards of $25,000 too. If the Unions can fine teachers $500 for not participating in job action (which they were threatening), I don't see why the Province can't charge teacher's for walking off the job. The government has to appear strong, but they can't outlaw political protests. The school boards can punish the teachers for not showing up at work if they choose, but some even allow for a protest day per year.The teachers will not get strike pay for the "political protest" and they technically do not have to show up. However, the union reps will be keenly aware of who is missing. Instead of angering parents and wasting our money in the courts, I'd like to see the unions spend some of the millions they collect on positive TV ads over the next 2 years. They should build positive support and let the public know about all of the volunteer, extracurricular work that is done. Strikes, cancelling field trips, sports and clubs just harms education and erodes public support. Quote "Our lives begin to end the day we stay silent about the things that matter." - Martin Luther King Jr"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities" - Voltaire
Boges Posted January 10, 2013 Report Posted January 10, 2013 The teachers will not get strike pay for the "political protest" and they technically do not have to show up. However, the union reps will be keenly aware of who is missing. Is that why they'll only be walking off the job for 2 hours? They still want to get paid? Quote
Mighty AC Posted January 10, 2013 Report Posted January 10, 2013 They won't be on the job at all, at least in my area. During their legal 1 day strike teachers were required to picket for 4 hours in staggered shifts. The protests may be shorter simply because there will be no $50 strike pay and they are technically (but not actually) voluntary. Quote "Our lives begin to end the day we stay silent about the things that matter." - Martin Luther King Jr"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities" - Voltaire
MiddleClassCentrist Posted January 10, 2013 Report Posted January 10, 2013 Today Dalton is going to the Labour Relations Board to get the "protest" called illegal. Then, I suppose, they can impose these fines. Apparently the Unions can get fined upwards of $25,000 too. If the Unions can fine teachers $500 for not participating in job action (which they were threatening), I don't see why the Province can't charge teacher's for walking off the job. Ironic... Dalton uses OLRB when he restricted teacher's right to use it with Bill 115. Quote Ideology does not make good policy. Good policy comes from an analysis of options, comparison of options and selection of one option that works best in the current situation. This option is often a compromise between ideologies.
MiddleClassCentrist Posted January 10, 2013 Report Posted January 10, 2013 Instead of angering parents and wasting our money in the courts, I'd like to see the unions spend some of the millions they collect on positive TV ads over the next 2 years. They should build positive support and let the public know about all of the volunteer, extracurricular work that is done. Strikes, cancelling field trips, sports and clubs just harms education and erodes public support. I do agree, that a strategy based on good will after being raped may generate more support. I actually feel like the secondary union is caving to a few more extreme members. Take note that only elementary published the numbers from their political protest vote (92%). Secondary only issued a statement that they were strongly in favour of... (that means anywhere from 60%-79%) Quote Ideology does not make good policy. Good policy comes from an analysis of options, comparison of options and selection of one option that works best in the current situation. This option is often a compromise between ideologies.
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