Tories to try a 2nd attempt to re-open abortion debate

[eyeball]

Imagine if they could test and select fetuses for ideology. We'd soon see who had the more enthusiastic thumbs.

[Fletch 27]

Would Thomas Mulcair endore abortions if the fetus was deemed from a ceterist or right leaning family? Where would he stop?

This sort of mentality was seen in the 40's....

[Boges]

It's an interesting paradox. The Laws in Canada don't take into consideration the motives for an abortion so there are no laws against such things.

Michael Coren brought up an interesting hypothetical argument. If you could test for a "Gay" gene would pro-choice advocates support abortions for a fetus that is genetically pre-disposed to being gay?

It's well known that women aren't as respected in the Chinese community and parents prefer to have males. It's a real problem and not evidence the CPC wants to ban abortions.

Edited December 7, 2012 by Boges

[eyeball]

Would Thomas Mulcair endore abortions if the fetus was deemed from a ceterist or right leaning family? Where would he stop?

This sort of mentality was seen in the 40's....

So you would cherish and protect your fetus even if you knew it was going to grow up into a lefty?

Okay, between that and all the lefties aborting their righties the world will be a better place in no time.

[Fletch 27]

What was it Adolf said about what race again? Mulcair aint far off in his assertions that we can pick and choose!

[eyeball]

I don't know about Hitler, I'm more concerned about all the horrible awful things many righties say about lefties right now.

Am I to believe someone like you or Shady would still love and cherish your fetuses even if you knew beyond any doubt they were going to become lefties as they grew up?

[Boges]

I don't know about Hitler, I'm more concerned about all the horrible awful things many righties say about lefties right now.

Am I to believe someone like you or Shady would still love and cherish your fetuses even if you knew beyond any doubt they were going to become lefties as they grew up?

Many people start out as lefties but when they actually have to pay bills and taxes they change their tune.

[cybercoma]

OTTAWA - Opposition parties are slamming a Tory backbencher's motion against sex-selective abortion as a cynical bid to re-open the abortion debate.

But Tory backbencher Mark Warawa argues it's about protecting girls from "the worst form of gender violence - gendercide".

The motion, tabled by the B.C. MP in September, reads: "That the House condemns discrimination against females occurring through sex-selective pregnancy termination."

NDP Leader Thomas Mulcair said Wednesday his caucus will vote against M-480 and wouldn't be "duped" by what he saw as Warawa's sleight-of-hand attempt to get abortion on the agenda.

"The context of this particular motion is that is was presented within minutes after the last one (M-312) was defeated."

http://www.torontosu...abortion motion

There have been countless articles that outline exactly why the single study that all of this is based on was not good science. Namely the sampling was such that generalisation even to that particular culture is spurious at best. Not to mention there was nothing in the study that mentioned when during the pregnancies the women were having the abortions. Sex is not usually determined until after the 18th week of pregnancy and the vast majority of abortions in Canada occur before that. Sex-selection abortion is simply not an issue and all of this criticism about it stems from a significantly flawed study that does not show what pro-lifers purport that it shows. And since this is obviously not a significant issue, the only reason they would be trying to put this legislation forward is to try to pry the door open on the abortion debate, despite Stephen Harper flatly rejecting their attempt last time. Gordon O'Connor gave one of the best speeches in the house slapping Woodworth's proposed legislation down.

[Fletch 27]

I don't know about Hitler, I'm more concerned about all the horrible awful things many righties say about lefties right now.

Am I to believe someone like you or Shady would still love and cherish your fetuses even if you knew beyond any doubt they were going to become lefties as they grew up?

I was a severe leftie in High-school... Then i accumulated resposibilities and had to learn what a dollar was... Lefties alwats grow up..

[Sleipnir]

Therefore, I see Sleipnir's proposal of a ban after 17 weeks as pretty pointless

After seeing the stats, yeah it is pointless to pin the date at 17 weeks when majority are done by 12th week.

[cybercoma]

Yes, it's clear to a complete radical pro-abortionist.

Oh shut up, Shady. It has been explained to you numerous times why "pro-choice" doesn't mean "pro-abortion,' yet you still use the term just to be an asshole. Grow up.

[eyeball]

I was a severe leftie in High-school... Then i accumulated resposibilities and had to learn what a dollar was... Lefties alwats grow up..

I've known a few born again righties - they remind me of reformed smokers who get addicted to moralizing about their old habits.

[cybercoma]

So you're ok with women aborting a baby, killing it, at 8 or nine months pregnant? This is acceptable to you?

So you're another person that doesn't understand the difference between pro-choice and pro-abortion, eh?

[gunrutz]

I do enjoy it when the ideology of the far left leads to conflicts within their own ranks. Like the recent barber shop issue, whereby the same type of people who would label the right racist for not wanting to import people of very different cultures into the country, meanwhile when those vbastly different cultures behave the way they always have it suddenly becomes a human rights issue against the very same type of person who tells the rest of us that there should be no nations, no borders, were all the same after all. Here we are again where feminists and rights advocates have to defend a process that clearly singles out females, if we already had reasonable restrictions on abortion there would be no issue at all in making gender slective abortion illegal, but theres no talking to these people.

[bleeding heart]

Would Thomas Mulcair endore abortions if the fetus was deemed from a ceterist or right leaning family? Where would he stop?

This sort of mentality was seen in the 40's....

Now I know you're kidding.

[bleeding heart]

Many people start out as lefties but when they actually have to pay bills and taxes they change their tune.

And then some of us move more to the left as we get older, and our knuckles stop scraping the ground, as we evolve.

[cybercoma]

Yeah, so 88% are performed in the first 12 weeks. 97% - 98% in the first 16 weeks. Most of those after 16 weeks are from wanted pregnancies where something has gone wrong. Therefore, I see Sleipnir's proposal of a ban after 17 weeks as pretty pointless, especially as access to abortion in Canada is incredibly unequal across regions and therefore such legislation would only further disadvantage rural and isolated women in terms of access to health care.

Moreover, no woman stays pregnant for 6 months just to decide all of a sudden she doesn't want to be pregnant anymore. Typically it a painful and difficult decision to make that's particular to the situation she's in and perhaps complications with her pregnancy that she feels she's not able to handle. That decision should not be made for her by legislators demanding her to keep something growing inside of her, using her body. That is a decision only individual women can make themselves given their situation and the context of their pregnancy.

[bleeding heart]

Here we are again where feminists and rights advocates have to defend a process that clearly singles out females, if we already had reasonable restrictions on abortion there would be no issue at all in making gender slective abortion illegal, but theres no talking to these people.

no issue at all, eh?

OK, gunrutz--let's pretend for a moment that you've thought this through--explain to us exactly "there would be no issue at all in making gender selective abortion illegal."

All a woman would have to do is not admit this was the reason for the abortion.

That's it.

So, gunrutz--again, since you've really considered this matter (or else you wouldn't be offering your opinion on it...correct?)...how would the authorities find out if gender selection was the reason?

I suppose she could be tortured...no doubt some on the political Right would get little tents in their pants at the thought--but that might be slightly controversial.

So...your thoughts?

[Boges]

The only way to legislate against it it would be to ban abortions after the sex is disclosed.

If the woman/family wanted an abortion for the more acceptable reasons, like not being able to support the child, then there should be no reason for them to want to know the sex in the first place.

Again I'm not taking a position on the matter but it is an unintended consequence of having unrestricted access to abortions.

[g_bambino]

[N]o woman stays pregnant for 6 months just to decide all of a sudden she doesn't want to be pregnant anymore. Typically it a painful and difficult decision to make that's particular to the situation she's in and perhaps complications with her pregnancy that she feels she's not able to handle. That decision should not be made for her by legislators demanding her to keep something growing inside of her, using her body. That is a decision only individual women can make themselves given their situation and the context of their pregnancy.

You have to admit there comes a point in the development of the baby when it's no longer just about the woman and her body. You say "no woman does [X]" and "typically [X] happens"; I wonder: how do you know what all women do and don't do, and I know "typically" is not "always". This thread started out on the specific subject of gender-driven abortion. In that context, it's entirely believable that a woman could be, at any stage in her pregancy, either driven by her own beliefs or pressured by a man in her family to abort her baby because its a female.

[Black Dog]

What was it Adolf said about what race again? Mulcair aint far off in his assertions that we can pick and choose!

Quote? Cite?

[Guest]

It's an interesting paradox. The Laws in Canada don't take into consideration the motives for an abortion so there are no laws against such things.

Michael Coren brought up an interesting hypothetical argument. If you could test for a "Gay" gene would pro-choice advocates support abortions for a fetus that is genetically pre-disposed to being gay?

It's well known that women aren't as respected in the Chinese community and parents prefer to have males. It's a real problem and not evidence the CPC wants to ban abortions.

I don't see anything wrong with that, and I don't see how anyone who is pro choice on abortion would. If you afford a women a right to have an abortion, which I fully support, you can't base that right on predictions about the foetus.

[Black Dog]

Oh shut up, Shady. It has been explained to you numerous times why "pro-choice" doesn't mean "pro-abortion,' yet you still use the term just to be an asshole. Grow up.

I consider myself pro-abortion. I don't see the problem with the term, myself. The rationale is based in part on the choice argument, but I don't see being "pro-abortion" as being all the different from being "pro-condom" or "pro-diaphragm".

That said, Shady is an asshole. We know this to be so.

[Black Dog]

It's an interesting paradox. The Laws in Canada don't take into consideration the motives for an abortion so there are no laws against such things.

Michael Coren brought up an interesting hypothetical argument. If you could test for a "Gay" gene would pro-choice advocates support abortions for a fetus that is genetically pre-disposed to being gay?

It's well known that women aren't as respected in the Chinese community and parents prefer to have males. It's a real problem and not evidence the CPC wants to ban abortions.

Banning such practices don't do anything to change the attitudes, though. Nor would it actually end the practice, just force it underground.

[g_bambino]

Banning such practices don't do anything to change the attitudes, though. Nor would it actually end the practice, just force it underground.

True. Though it may happen less....?