Smallc Posted December 20, 2015 Report Posted December 20, 2015 Hillier is an expert on military matters. I don't concern myself with his views about refugees as that is not his area of expertise. Im not really concerned with any of his views at this point. He is not an expert on current affairs of any kind. As to the issue at hand - it's immeterial. The fact that ISIS was able to mount such a large counter offensive at all is evidence that the bombing campaign, while tactically useful at times, is not strategically useful. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted December 20, 2015 Report Posted December 20, 2015 (edited) Sure, but the USAF isn't replacing their current F-15Cs, procured in the later 70s and early 80s, until the ~2030s, at which point, they would have had a longer service life than our Hornets. Potentially, but we have no idea when the CF-18s will be retired. Let's check back in 10 more years. It would seem difficulties faced by the Canadian Forces are mirrored with the US military (granted on a far larger scale), but then your only complaint is that said Canadian difficulties receive less in depth coverage and open source information? Yes...what's the big secret ? If the entire MYPs and costs for a military super-power are readily available to anybody in the world with a web browser, what is the problem in Canada ? What happened to "visibility" and "transparency" ? All this drama for only 48 to 65 aircraft ? Edited December 20, 2015 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
DogOnPorch Posted December 20, 2015 Report Posted December 20, 2015 Im not really concerned with any of his views at this point. He is not an expert on current affairs of any kind. As to the issue at hand - it's immeterial. The fact that ISIS was able to mount such a large counter offensive at all is evidence that the bombing campaign, while tactically useful at times, is not strategically useful. What does that even mean? Air assets aren't being used strategically. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Big Guy Posted December 21, 2015 Report Posted December 21, 2015 Hillier is an expert on military matters. I don't concern myself with his views about refugees as that is not his area of expertise. Hillier was the biggest dope on Afghanistan and wears that defeat. When he was first given command of Canadian forces he guaranteed the Canadian Cabinet at the time that he had the troops and support needed to wipe out the Taliban. That gave him the go ahead. He wears the continuing waste of blood and money that we had put into Afghanistan. He has since written a couple of books trying to establish his own artificial legacy but the truth keeps popping up. Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
Smallc Posted December 21, 2015 Report Posted December 21, 2015 What does that even mean? Air assets aren't being used strategically. As a strategic goal - as in, ending the conflict or even coming close to it. The over reliance on air assets has doomed the mission this far to failure. I think we should keep our jets there. Without doing something about the ground game they're having very little impact. Quote
DogOnPorch Posted December 21, 2015 Report Posted December 21, 2015 As a strategic goal - as in, ending the conflict or even coming close to it. The over reliance on air assets has doomed the mission this far to failure. I think we should keep our jets there. Without doing something about the ground game they're having very little impact. With all due respect, we do not have a clue as to the effectiveness of anything anymore. Large Russian bombers...normally reserved for strategic roles...now pummel the landscape from 30,000 ft. Nobody gives a rat's rear when they make a mistake. I'd challenge that it is the set of rules our forces follow requiring positive target ID set away from civilians that make air power ineffective. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Smallc Posted December 21, 2015 Report Posted December 21, 2015 It's clear now that our whole middle east strategy going back decades has been largely ineffective. Arms are sometimes necessary, but without a full scale invasion and long term occupation, won't solve this. Quote
DogOnPorch Posted December 21, 2015 Report Posted December 21, 2015 It's clear now that our whole middle east strategy going back decades has been largely ineffective. Arms are sometimes necessary, but without a full scale invasion and long term occupation, won't solve this. Problem areas like the Middle East are commitments for the long term. We can have another South Korea or another South Viet-Nam depending on the will of the people...which is fickle in the West after the glow wears-off. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
On Guard for Thee Posted December 21, 2015 Report Posted December 21, 2015 Why do you address him as Trudeau Jr. Just say Trudeau. He's the only living Trudeau PM we have. It's a feeble attempt by the right to try and demean him. They seem to be still licking their wounds, ad nausea um. Quote
Smallc Posted December 21, 2015 Report Posted December 21, 2015 There was actually an interesting article about that very phenomenon: “While Trudeau was posing for selfies in Paris,” the National Post scoffed, “the dollar was falling, the stock market plunging.” As though standing still for three seconds as someone snaps a picture on an iPhone is tantamount to desertion of duty. http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/dec/18/justin-trudeau-canada-prime-minister-politics-appearence Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted December 21, 2015 Report Posted December 21, 2015 There was actually an interesting article about that very phenomenon: Complete with comparisons to JFK...how original and typically Canadian ? Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Smallc Posted December 21, 2015 Report Posted December 21, 2015 We're flattered by your noticing, as always. Carry on. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted December 21, 2015 Report Posted December 21, 2015 We're flattered by your noticing, as always. Carry on. I know, but completing the flattering comparison to Kennedy, see "Vietnam War" with respect to escalation or withdrawal. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Smallc Posted December 21, 2015 Report Posted December 21, 2015 Like I said, we're flattered by your continued attention. Quote
Smallc Posted December 21, 2015 Report Posted December 21, 2015 Btw, the guy who wrote the article - he's British. He just happened to based in Toronto. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted December 21, 2015 Report Posted December 21, 2015 (edited) Btw, the guy who wrote the article - he's British. He just happened to based in Toronto. Doesn't matter....he has fallen into the same lazy trance that seemingly ignores aspects of actual Canadian history to find such comparisons. Despite JFK's Bay of Pigs, Missiles of October, and Vietnam War, he still must have been a bigger rock star in Trudeau's Canada. Just for fun: "Mr. Trudeau, I served with Jack Kennedy. I knew Jack Kennedy. Jack Kennedy was a friend of mine. Mr. Trudeau, you're no Jack Kennedy." Edited December 21, 2015 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Smallc Posted December 21, 2015 Report Posted December 21, 2015 (edited) I'm glad you could have your (completely incorrect in this case) fun. Any insight into the rest of the article, or do you only have one line of interest? Edited December 21, 2015 by Smallc Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted December 21, 2015 Report Posted December 21, 2015 (edited) I'm glad you could have your (completely incorrect in this case) fun. Any insight into the rest of the article, or do you only have one line of interest? The rest of the article includes yet another reference to a (American - gosh) magazine that courted Trudeau's vanity. This is not the first piece that invokes American political figures and dynamics to define Trudeau (e.g. Obama). I guess there just aren't any easily related references that originate in Canada, or they just fail to compare to more familiar American ones. Trudeau in Syria may just be an afterthought compared to the more pressing issue of his American cult of personality impressions. PM Harper was rewarded with Bush, sweater, and hair jokes instead. Edited December 21, 2015 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Smallc Posted December 21, 2015 Report Posted December 21, 2015 The rest of the article includes yet another reference to a (American - gosh) magazine that courted Trudeau's vanity. This is not the first piece that invokes American political figures and dynamics to define Trudeau (e.g. Obama). So one line of interest then? Quote
waldo Posted December 21, 2015 Report Posted December 21, 2015 so... when I ask you for an official source designating the F-35A flyaway cost at $98 million... this is the best you can do? The two previous links which I provided with the breakdown on the additional F-35 purchases. I trust you can be more specific and provide the actual link... "your official source"... and quote the flyaway cost figure from that referenced link. Thanks in advance. . Quote
waldo Posted December 21, 2015 Report Posted December 21, 2015 Not since, several years ago, the French Government announced a reduction in their planned buy absent outside orders. you said the Rafale production line would end in 2016... I called BS and stated the French military had orders in to 2019. So, you provide a 2013 dated linked reference that states another 6 years of production (to 2019) just based on the French military orders alone. Thanks for providing your own source to support exactly what I stated! and, again, this is without factoring the Egyptian order... and the 2 new orders for Rafale's I just posted about (from India and Qatar). Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted December 21, 2015 Report Posted December 21, 2015 So one line of interest then? Yes, substance over appearances. The election is over...somebody should tell Trudeau. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
waldo Posted December 21, 2015 Report Posted December 21, 2015 I have offered comment in several threads no - I don't believe you have ever offered comment about the iterative F-35 procurement plans and ever diminishing numbers spread out over ever increasing years. The prior U.S. GAO graphic I linked to clearly speaks to the F-35 delays and related problems (from an earlier plan that had ~2000 F-35s built by 2019 to a 2012 plan that had the number at 585 F-35s built by 2019... and as I suggested, given the heavy lifting is yet to come... as in the most complex testing is still ahead, I expect this will result in more delays and yet another procurement plan that shifts numbers down and out accordingly. Which, of course, presumes upon U.S. funding being there in the first place. speaking of that funding, that other U.S. GAO graphic I linked to is equally revealing in regards to the GAO's analysis of the U.S. DOD's budget versus procurement numbers from 2015 on through to 2038... you know, where you just so casually accept those numbers and the ~$15 billion for a decade will just be there! Notwithstanding U.S. President Trump's vow to shut the F-35 program down! . Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted December 21, 2015 Report Posted December 21, 2015 Notwithstanding U.S. President Trump's vow to shut the F-35 program down! . Perhaps the Donald is not quite as wacky as we were thinking. Or at least on one issue. Quote
Smallc Posted December 21, 2015 Report Posted December 21, 2015 (edited) so... when I ask you for an official source designating the F-35A flyaway cost at $98 million... this is the best you can do? I trust you can be more specific and provide the actual link... "your official source"... and quote the flyaway cost figure from that referenced link. Thanks in advance. . Even at that price, it makes the 40% more than the Super Hornet (from the same link). Edited December 21, 2015 by Smallc Quote
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