Hudson Jones Posted December 6, 2012 Report Posted December 6, 2012 In other words, the video is biased against Israel. Jewish Voice for Peace (JVP) bills itself as an organization of "activists inspired by Jewish tradition to work together for peace, social justice, and human rights" who "support the aspirations of Israelis and Palestinians for security and self-determination." Its moral outrage, however, is decidedly one-sided, directed overwhelmingly at Israel. http://www.camera.or...&x_article=1498 Opinion by CAMERA.org is an opinion by CAMERA.org. What they say does not diminish the work by Jewish Voice for Peace. CAMERA is an organization that does whatever it takes, including lie and deceit in order to influence the public's opinion of Israel. For example, creating a campaign to infiltrate Wikipedia to change information. More on CAMERA's campaign on Wikipedia: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/04/29/wikipedia_blocked_doj_ip/ Quote When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always. Gandhi
wyly Posted December 6, 2012 Report Posted December 6, 2012 The video is historically accurate. As for anti israeli bias any historical account is going to appear that way to Israels supporters. yes it is historically (simplified) accurate it's about as unbiased as it can be...it was made by a jewish organization so I can't wait until peeves claims it's anti-Semitic... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
DogOnPorch Posted December 6, 2012 Report Posted December 6, 2012 Let's time travel... Journeyman Pictures....ABC (Australian) 1991 Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Guest Posted December 6, 2012 Report Posted December 6, 2012 you could've could watched the video as they were baking...only 6 minutes, less time than it takes to boil an egg... Well, we're in a loop now. I didn't want to watch it. That's why I asked for its bias. Quote
wyly Posted December 7, 2012 Report Posted December 7, 2012 Well, we're in a loop now. I didn't want to watch it. That's why I asked for its bias. and offering a bias is wrong...it's vital to be a as unbiased as possible... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
Moonlight Graham Posted December 7, 2012 Report Posted December 7, 2012 (edited) wow how brainwashed are you?.. there was indeed mention of Palestinian violence but you're so indoctrinated you skipped right past that, you must've had your fingers buried in your ears up to the knuckle...you only hear what you want to hear, only what meets your preconceived/conditioned views...I know this may come as a surprise to you as you've obviously led a sheltered life but there are always two sides to every story.... Yes, but those 2 sides aren't included in this film. So as a self-billed short introduction to the Israel-Palestine conflict, this video is terribly one-sided and incomplete. It's a propaganda film with an agenda, whereas it should be much more objective if it's supposed to be an intro for people to the conflict. I think it's you who only wanted to hear what you want to hear. What I want to hear is the perspective of both sides. Edited December 7, 2012 by Moonlight Graham Quote "All generalizations are false, including this one." - Mark Twain Partisanship is a disease of the intellect.
wyly Posted December 7, 2012 Report Posted December 7, 2012 (edited) Yes, but those 2 sides aren't included in this film. So as a self-billed short introduction to the Israel-Palestine conflict, this video is terribly one-sided and incomplete. It's a propaganda film with an agenda, whereas it should be much more objective if it's supposed to be an intro for people to the conflict. that is the basic story there isn't anything one sided about it, that's what happened there is no alternate history...you wanna go into details we can talk about Palestinian rockets and terrorists and terrorist leaders, but then we could also talk about Israeli ethnic cleansing, terrorists, terrorist leaders and bombings... I think it's you who only wanted to hear what you want to hear. What I want to hear is the perspective of both sides.if you have a alternate history version that differs feel free to educate us... Edited December 7, 2012 by wyly Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
Guest American Woman Posted December 7, 2012 Report Posted December 7, 2012 CAMERA is an organization that does whatever it takes, including lie and deceit in order to influence the public's opinion of Israel. That's pretty gutsy coming from someone who is doing just that himself. You do whatever it takes, including lie and deceit, in order to attempt to influence people's opinion in favor of Palestine; you knowingly leave lies and propaganda in what you post, and you think your opinion of CAMERA carries any weight?? Quote
Guest Posted December 7, 2012 Report Posted December 7, 2012 and offering a bias is wrong...it's vital to be a as unbiased as possible... I am. It was the video I was worried about. Quote
wyly Posted December 7, 2012 Report Posted December 7, 2012 I am. It was the video I was worried about. watching it I never detected any extra embellishment, it is brief historical overview and accurate...the fact that it was made by a Jewish peace organization backs it as being objective and fair... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
Moonlight Graham Posted December 7, 2012 Report Posted December 7, 2012 that is the basic story there isn't anything one sided about it, that's what happened there is no alternate history... ... if you have a alternate history version that differs feel free to educate us... Read this a few years ago, shows the different narratives of the different point of view of the conflict, along with the historical context. It's not an "alternate history", it shows different alternate histories: http://ca.wiley.com/WileyCDA/WileyTitle/productCd-1405175389.html Quote "All generalizations are false, including this one." - Mark Twain Partisanship is a disease of the intellect.
Hudson Jones Posted December 7, 2012 Report Posted December 7, 2012 That's pretty gutsy coming from someone who is doing just that himself. You do whatever it takes, including lie and deceit, in order to attempt to influence people's opinion in favor of Palestine; you knowingly leave lies and propaganda in what you post, and you think your opinion of CAMERA carries any weight?? I have never knowingly posted anything that I knew was incorrect. You are not telling the truth. How many times did you think you could post things from CAMERA, a well-known special interest group which has been caught with its pants down, before someone was going to call you on it? Quote When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always. Gandhi
wyly Posted December 7, 2012 Report Posted December 7, 2012 Read this a few years ago, shows the different narratives of the different point of view of the conflict, along with the historical context. It's not an "alternate history", it shows different alternate histories: http://ca.wiley.com/...1405175389.html in other words you got nothing to offer except a picture of a book...nothing that disputes the brief historical outline already supplied in the thread... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
Guest American Woman Posted December 7, 2012 Report Posted December 7, 2012 (edited) I have never knowingly posted anything that I knew was incorrect. You are not telling the truth. I most definitely am telling the truth. This is what I said: "you knowingly leave lies and propaganda in what you post" - and you most definitely do. I can't imagine leaving such lies in anything I posted, yet there it remains in yours. Your opening post, at that. Are you hoping that people won't read far enough into the thread to see that it's a lie? Seriously. I feel as if any of your posts could knowingly carry such lies since you do nothing to correct it even when you know it's a lie. How many times did you think you could post things from CAMERA, a well-known special interest group which has been caught with its pants down, before someone was going to call you on it? Again. How much weight to you think your opinion carries considering your behavior? Again. I see proof that you do what you claim CAMERA does. Edited December 7, 2012 by American Woman Quote
Hudson Jones Posted December 7, 2012 Report Posted December 7, 2012 (edited) Your opening post, at that. Are you hoping that people won't read far enough into the thread to see that it's a lie? Seriously. What? That makes no sense. Not sure how a few comments have automatically turned the video (that was not posted by me) into a lie. There have been comments from all angles about the video. Again, I would never post anything that I would think is a lie. I also do not think the video in the original post is a lie and no one has proved that it is a lie. One more such accusation from you, and I will be reporting you to the administrator. Again. How much weight to you think your opinion carries considering your behavior? Again. I see proof that you do what you claim CAMERA does. It's not my opinion that CAMERA has been caught trying to lie and deceit people. I posted a link about CAMERA's deceitful efforts in trying to change Wikipedia entries. It's not an opinion of mine, but a fact. You need to deal with the fact that you post from an organization that uses such ugly, deceitful tactics in order to push an agenda. You need to understand that repeatedly posting from CAMERA reflects on who you are. Edited December 7, 2012 by Hudson Jones Quote When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always. Gandhi
bleeding heart Posted December 7, 2012 Report Posted December 7, 2012 I most definitely am telling the truth. This is what I said: "you knowingly leave lies and propaganda in what you post" - and you most definitely do. I can't imagine leaving such lies in anything I posted, yet there it remains in yours. Your opening post, at that. Where is his lie in the opening post? I understand that you disagree with his assessment...but that's hardly grounds for accusations of lying. Quote “There is a limit to how much we can constantly say no to the political masters in Washington. All we had was Afghanistan to wave. On every other file we were offside. Eventually we came onside on Haiti, so we got another arrow in our quiver." --Bill Graham, Former Canadian Foreign Minister, 2007
DogOnPorch Posted December 7, 2012 Report Posted December 7, 2012 Where is his lie in the opening post? I understand that you disagree with his assessment...but that's hardly grounds for accusations of lying. http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index.php?showtopic=21876&st=0 Posting photos of dead kids from Syria claiming that Israelis murdered them. Claiming Fascist Italy supplied Irgun during the war. Little F-ups like that. http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index.php?showtopic=21876&st=525#entry855257 When given a chance to correct his error, he decided to keep the Pallywood stuff up as true. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
WIP Posted December 7, 2012 Report Posted December 7, 2012 In other words, the video is biased against Israel. Jewish Voice for Peace (JVP) bills itself as an organization of "activists inspired by Jewish tradition to work together for peace, social justice, and human rights" who "support the aspirations of Israelis and Palestinians for security and self-determination." Its moral outrage, however, is decidedly one-sided, directed overwhelmingly at Israel. http://www.camera.or...&x_article=1498 I wonder lately if Israeli peace groups that I used to hear about some decades back, like Peace Now, even still exist in Israel. You wouldn't know there was a Jewish voice for peace going by who they are voting for and what's said in the media! Maybe the problem is that most of the 'Jewish voices for peace' have packed their bags and left Israel over the years, and been replaced by waves of crackpot Ultra-Orthodox Jews who don't know the meanings of words like 'peace' or 'compromise.' Although it's essential to mention that the majority of them (The Haredi) are a bunch of worthless bums who get to dodge the draft so they can spend their lives studying their Torahs and living off welfare and breeding like rabbits. Eventually, when there are not enough Israelis to fill the IDF, they will have to hire mercenaries to fight for their cause! Quote Anybody who believers exponential growth can go on forever in a finite world is either a madman or an economist. -- Kenneth Boulding, 1973
WIP Posted December 7, 2012 Report Posted December 7, 2012 a simplified but an accurate description of the conflict: There's nothing in the video that wasn't common knowledge accepted by all sides 20 or 30 years ago....and that's the saddest commentary about the present state of media and information these days! Menachem Begin, and his Likud supporters were warned years ago, when they started the settlement policy in the West Bank that it would it would make a permanent peace deal with Jordan, Syria and local Palestinians almost impossible....but he pushed ahead anyway. And now, from the latest numbers I looked at, there are more than half a million Israeli settlers in the West Bank - including East Jerusalem. So, now that they have essentially annexed the West Bank....except for a collection of Palestinian enclaves separated by Israeli checkpoints, how can anyone take talk of a "Two State" solution seriously these days! It wasn't that many years ago that South Africa tried to create a bunch of little "homelands" for the black population. At the time, South Africa's only allies...surprise surprise, were England (Thatcher England by this time), the United States and Israel....who could at least be excused for not having a great deal of choice in the world in choosing friends! But, because of overwhelming global opposition to Apartheid South Africa, England, the U.S., and by extension - Israel, were forced into conceding their opposition to sanctions and diplomatic isolation of the South African Government. And South Africa was forced to end apartheid and become a unified nation again. Although, for what it's worth, if you follow some of the stories that pop up in the news over the years - like the recent massacre of striking miners - the ANC made an obvious under-the-table deal with the wealthy English and Afrikaander ruling class - that would leave them in charge of the economic levers of power. So, not to get distracted too far, let's not kid ourselves about South Africa! Most of the democracy and changes since apartheid ended have been superficial and cosmetic! The people who controlled most of the land, banking and business during apartheid, still are in control today. And, I mention this, because if Israel/Palestine ever does actually graduate to a permanent peace solution today, it will have to be a One-State solution, not a Two State agreement. If there is no plausible means to create a functioning, independent Palestinian state today, talk about a two-state solution...which for some reason was considered too radical until very recent times....is out of the question. But, a future one-state solution would likely look much like the South African arrangement: there would be permanent and distinct Jewish and Palestinian regions, and it's possible with the presently higher Arab birth rates that they could end up being the voting majority in a nation that doesn't disenfranchise anyone. But, they will never get equivalent economic power as their Jewish neighbours. Quote Anybody who believers exponential growth can go on forever in a finite world is either a madman or an economist. -- Kenneth Boulding, 1973
Bonam Posted December 7, 2012 Report Posted December 7, 2012 (edited) The video omits numerous key facts, which is how it generates its bias. See the video DOP posted back on page 1 for many of the relevant omitted facts: Edited December 7, 2012 by Bonam Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted December 7, 2012 Report Posted December 7, 2012 (edited) It wasn't that many years ago that South Africa... Nice South Africa rant...guess where they learned about a Crown approved system of "reserves" and "homelands" ? The U.K. ("England") and USA supported South Africa as a bulwark against communism in a larger Cold War context irrespective of apartheid. Lastly, it was Canada and other Comonwealth nations that solidified South Africa's grip in the region (Boer Wars). Edited December 7, 2012 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Hudson Jones Posted December 7, 2012 Report Posted December 7, 2012 Nice South Africa rant...guess where they learned about a Crown approved system of "reserves" and "homelands" ? The U.K. ("England") and USA supported South Africa as a bulwark against communism in a larger Cold War context irrespective of apartheid. Lastly, it was Canada and other Comonwealth nations that solidified South Africa's grip in the region (Boer Wars). Guess what. They all made a mistake and accepted that they made a mistake. It was also the same nations who finally turned their backs to South Africa, after the people around the world could no longer stay silent. Canada ended up being one of the key players that finally ended the Apartheid regime. Same thing will happen with Israel. However, I doubt Canada will have a role in that with the current government. Quote When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always. Gandhi
WIP Posted December 7, 2012 Report Posted December 7, 2012 Nice South Africa rant...guess where they learned about a Crown approved system of "reserves" and "homelands" ? The U.K. ("England") and USA supported South Africa as a bulwark against communism in a larger Cold War context irrespective of apartheid. Lastly, it was Canada and other Comonwealth nations that solidified South Africa's grip in the region (Boer Wars). Yes, I am aware of this -- in a nutshell, it all began a deal was struck many decades ago between the white South Africans of British extraction, and the Afrikaanders, whom they fought a bloody war of aggression (The Boer War), and took over their territories. The deal looked in many ways, a lot like Lincoln's deal with the South after the Civil War, where even after the Emancipation Proclamation, Lincoln ordered a hands-off policy after a brief reconstruction, and left the South to informally chip away and dismantle that emancipation. In South Africa, the Brits rehabilitated the Afrikaanders use of their own Dutch dialect as official language, and for most of the remaining white-ruled years, they dominated the governments, while the Brits controlled the money and business. And yes, the U.S. could use the excuse of anti-communism....same excuse for supporting despots in Latin America, Asia, Africa and the Middle East.....but, eventually the noise against apartheid got a little too loud to deal with. You're really reaching back in ancient history, to blame Canada for sending regiments to fight on behalf of England during the Boer War! Why not the most modern example -- Brian Mulroney letting Reagan know that their special friendship that greased the slide into free trade deals, did not include taking their side in trying to prop up the apartheid government. And, as I've said a number of times before....what the hell has happened to the Conservative Party between Mulroney and Harper? Nobody can imagine Harper veering even slightly off of official U.S. foreign policy protocols these days. Quote Anybody who believers exponential growth can go on forever in a finite world is either a madman or an economist. -- Kenneth Boulding, 1973
bush_cheney2004 Posted December 7, 2012 Report Posted December 7, 2012 Guess what. They all made a mistake and accepted that they made a mistake. No, it was not a "mistake", it was a purposeful policy to control land and subjugate the indigenous people just as was done in the Americas and other places where the "sun never set". It was also the same nations who finally turned their backs to South Africa, after the people around the world could no longer stay silent. Canada ended up being one of the key players that finally ended the Apartheid regime. This happened more because of Cold War realities than any "leadership" by Canada. Sorry, but there is more to the actual end of apartheid than guilt from Canada, which still has its own bantustans. Same thing will happen with Israel. However, I doubt Canada will have a role in that with the current government. Canada has no leading role or interests in the region, save for oil services contracts. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
bush_cheney2004 Posted December 7, 2012 Report Posted December 7, 2012 Yes, I am aware of this -- Then why didn't you post the entire story in your rant? And yes, the U.S. could use the excuse of anti-communism....same excuse for supporting despots in Latin America, Asia, Africa and the Middle East.....but, eventually the noise against apartheid got a little too loud to deal with. As did Canada, but you didn't mention that part either. You're really reaching back in ancient history, to blame Canada for sending regiments to fight on behalf of England during the Boer War! Why is the history of other nations going back hundreds of years fair game but not Canada's? This is a recurring behaviour...the purposeful ignorance of Canadian complicity in such matters while painstakenly pointing out the historic details of other actors. Why not the most modern example -- Brian Mulroney letting Reagan More recent than that, PM Martin invaded and deposed the democratically elected president of Haiti in 2004, alongside France and the USA. The operation was organized in Montreal. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
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