SHAME! Our 'Health Care" is the pits in comparison. :(

[Guest Peeves]

http://blogs.windsor...r-report-finds/

By comparison, per radio interview WE are waiting longer than many like France, Germany etc. for common medical problems, dr. appoitment, specialist appointment,then surgery.

That should be unacceptable considering (as said in interview of Fraser Institute member), that our costs are higher as well.

Must be the "Smitherman effect'?

"Esmail said that Canadians still face some of the longest wait times for elective surgery in the developed world."

I know in our family few have been satisfied with most medical situations, be it at the hospital or awaiting a specialist.

My son had a procedure canceled after a two moth wait for another 2 months because f no anesthesiologist being available.

Several months off work for corrective surgery. In the USA or France-Germany he would have not had to wait at all from what I'm hearing.

Edited December 4, 2012 by Peeves

[cybercoma]

The problem with our health care system is a lack of GPs, which causes people to fill up our Emergency Rooms with spurious issues and things they could go to a walk-in clinic for or simply wait it out with bed rest. You show up to an emergency room with a genuine life-threatening emergency and they take care of you immediately. Those who can wait do. The same goes for specialists. The reason people get bumped is that others come in with more immediate emergencies and those that can wait will wait. The biggest issue that needs addressing is the lack of family doctors.

[wyly]

if it's an emergency cardiac or oncology you're in very quickly...

we have excellent life expectancy results...and we do it for considerably less cash than the americans and if circumstances were different and your son lived in the US he may be on a waiting list there as well, it's a myth americans don't wait some never get their surgery, waits are short if you have the cash...

we have MD shortages which are the result of under funded universities and we're behind in surgeries often due to a lack of facilities/OR time and that's funding as well, surgeons can't operate without OR time or beds to put recovering patients in...

[wyly]

The problem with our health care system is a lack of GPs, which causes people to fill up our Emergency Rooms with spurious issues and things they could go to a walk-in clinic for or simply wait it out with bed rest. You show up to an emergency room with a genuine life-threatening emergency and they take care of you immediately. Those who can wait do. The same goes for specialists. The reason people get bumped is that others come in with more immediate emergencies and those that can wait will wait. The biggest issue that needs addressing is the lack of family doctors.

yup...we are short GPs because we don't pay them enough, spending another few years in school an MDs can become specialized and make double, triple even quadruple what a GP makes, so who would want to become a GP anymore, not many do...

I don't have a "family" GP, I dumped my last one because she's an idiot and I just go to a walk-in clinic no appointment needed and a one hour wait, if I need a referral to a specialist they can do it just as well...

Edited December 4, 2012 by wyly

[Moonbox]

I think it's hit or miss on having a good GP though. I am going to cry when my GP retires. He's been looking after me since I was a wee baby and has ALWAYS been right and ALWAYS sent me in the right direction. I had a problem with my eye a few years ago and he arranged for me to have a CT scan the NEXT DAY. I'm sure this isn't normal but I love the guy. This is the attention I expect and I'm going to be pretty disappointed when it's not delivered...

[CPCFTW]

Yes we're not spending enough.. that's the problem..

[guyser]

The Fraser Inst doesnt have any agenda here does it?

I can only laugh when the list of countries compared are tiny, populous countries. Of course they should be better to deliver. Imagine if Canada were the size of Manitoba?

Thats not to say that we need improvements, we do, even thought this report says we are better, its the way they frame it that irks.

[Guest Peeves]

The Fraser Inst doesnt have any agenda here does it?

I can only laugh when the list of countries compared are tiny, populous countries. Of course they should be better to deliver. Imagine if Canada were the size of Manitoba?

Thats not to say that we need improvements, we do, even thought this report says we are better, its the way they frame it that irks.

Were does it say we are better?

[guyser]

Were does it say we are better?

Um...the headline, the 1st 2nd and 3rd paragraph? Is that enough?

Do you even read the link you posted?

[Wayward Son]

http://blogs.windsor...r-report-finds/

By comparison, per radio interview WE are waiting longer than many like France, Germany etc. for common medical problems, dr. appoitment, specialist appointment,then surgery.

That should be unacceptable considering (as said in interview of Fraser Institute member), that our costs are higher as well.

They are not. According to the WHO Canada spends 9.8% of it's GDP on health expenditures. France and Germany (at 11.2 and 10.5%) are significantly higher. The OECD likewise states that Germany and France spend more of their GDP on health.

Incidently hospital and physician costs make up about the same percent of GDP today as they did in the 1970s (for instance hospital costs as a % of GDP was 3.1% in 1975 and the same percentage in 2008 - despite hospitals having much more advanced technology and doing a lot more). The increase in costs (from 7.1% of GDP in 1971 to 9.8% in 2008) seems to rest in other parts of the system (drug costs as one example).

[wyly]

Were does it say we are better?

the CIA says we are better, better than the USA by quite a margin....the definitive measurement is average lifespan and canada ranks among the best...ahead of france germany and the usa...

[Canuckistani]

yup...we are short GPs because we don't pay them enough, spending another few years in school an MDs can become specialized and make double, triple even quadruple what a GP makes, so who would want to become a GP anymore, not many do...

I don't have a "family" GP, I dumped my last one because she's an idiot and I just go to a walk-in clinic no appointment needed and a one hour wait, if I need a referral to a specialist they can do it just as well...

We should be using Nurse Practitioners as front line people anyway. That would reduce the need for GPs. And if we need more, open spaces for them. Our medical schools spaces are very restricted, we could and should be training a lot more people. If we have plenty of specialists, don't open more spaces for them, but do so for GPs. What we also need to be training more of are gerontologists.

[Wayward Son]

we have MD shortages which are the result of under funded universities and we're behind in surgeries often due to a lack of facilities/OR time and that's funding as well, surgeons can't operate without OR time or beds to put recovering patients in...

At least in Ontario, MD programs are no longer underfunded. Spots in medical school has increased significantly since the cuts in the 1990s and do not need to be expanded further at this time. Unfortunately, it takes a lot of years to make a physician, so deficits take many years to correct.

[Wayward Son]

I can only laugh when the list of countries compared are tiny, populous countries. Of course they should be better to deliver. Imagine if Canada were the size of Manitoba?

That is a good point. Delivering the same quality of care is an area with a lower population density is more expensive. Canada has done very well, but many things can still be improved. If people and organizations really are interested in improving health care services the first thing they should do is realize that this is an extremely complicated issue and with that the second thing they should do is check their opinions and ideology at the door.

[Canuckistani]

health care expenditure per GDP/per capita:

Germany: 11.6 4218

Canada: 11.4 4363

Holland: 12.0 4914

France: 11.8 3978

But we could and should be able to get more for our money.

Edited December 4, 2012 by Canuckistani

[Guest Peeves]

Um...the headline, the 1st 2nd and 3rd paragraph? Is that enough?

Do you even read the link you posted?

It says nothing of the sort. It compares to last year with a slight improvement over last year.

While wait times have improved since last year, Canadians are still forced to wait more than four months, on average, for medically necessary treatment. Physicians, not to mention patients, consider this unreasonable,” said Nadeem Esmail, a fellow at the Fraser Institute who co-authored the report. “The ideal delay is not delay at all.”

While the median wait time is shorter than last year, it’s still a bit longer than it was in 2008 and about the same as it was in the years 2003-2006 despite more health care spending over the years, Esmail said.

Esmail said that Canadians still face some of the longest wait times for elective surgery in the developed world, but looking to health care systems in Japan, Australia and some European countries can help figure out what needs to change. Namely, he said, those systems that have no wait times use a combination of cost-sharing and private health care provision.

[guyser]

It says nothing of the sort. It compares to last year with a slight improvement over last year.

So it says exactly of the sort?

Geebus, I guess this slam isnt going how you figured huh?

[Topaz]

Are any of you worried what's going to happen after 2017, if the Tories have their way. Harper wants the provinces to take over more of the funding on their own and just where does he think this money is going to come from. He'll be going back to Alberta some day and he won't have to worry about his health care, he'll be able to go to private care. BTW, the US is also going to have a shortage of doctors too, many are retiring and that's why they come up here and try to take ours.

[Keepitsimple]

There's a number of posts about the lack of GP's, which I agree with - but once you get one, they are pretty responsive......but that's only the entry point to the system. I have a problem with my knee - went to my GP in July - got an Xray and managed to get an MRI in 4 weeks which I understand is pretty good. In August my GP said I should see a specialist. In October I got a call from the specialist saying he had me scheduled for an appointment - APRIL 3RD! If that appointment holds, the whole process will have taken 9 months. So it's not just the GP's.

It's accurate to say that our Healthcare system is being rationed out.

[cybercoma]

We should be using Nurse Practitioners as front line people anyway.

Another great suggestion.

[cybercoma]

It says nothing of the sort. It compares to last year with a slight improvement over last year.

Any idea how the Fraser Institute is defining "medically necessary treatments"? Are those just treatments that require professional care or is that treatment for life-threatening issues or something else entirely?

Edited December 4, 2012 by cybercoma

[Smallc]

It's accurate to say that our Healthcare system is being rationed out.

Of course it's accurate to say that. It always will be.

[Guest Peeves]

So it says exactly of the sort?

Geebus, I guess this slam isnt going how you figured huh?

If you can spin this quote to a positive fine. I can live with it. I say it says in essence, we suck but just a bit less than last year and worse than most.

"While the median wait time is shorter than last year, it’s still a bit longer than it was in 2008 and about the same as it was in the years 2003-2006 despite more health care spending over the years, Esmail said.

Esmail said that Canadians still face some of the longest wait times for elective surgery in the developed world

[Guest Peeves]

Any idea how the Fraser Institute is defining "medically necessary treatments"? Are those just treatments that require professional care or is that treatment for life-threatening issues or something else entirely?

I'm sure the official report will be published tomorrow. Please read it and enlighten us. I still have concerns that: "While the median wait time is shorter than last year, it’s still a bit longer than it was in 2008 and about the same as it was in the years 2003-2006 despite more health care spending over the years, Esmail said.

Esmail said that Canadians still face some of the longest wait times for elective surgery in the developed world"

[guyser]

If you can spin this quote to a positive fine.

I dont spin.

It says, in plain english, that things are better compared to last year and the 2 years prior to that.

No spin needed.

However, should you wish, and it appears that you have, you can and did spin this as something to hang your hat on.