wyly Posted November 22, 2012 Report Share Posted November 22, 2012 Hamas is neither moral, ethical nor civilised. is Hamas really any different then anyone else?...if anyone would suggest the allies were terrorists for carpet bombing german civilian targets in WW2 what would be the response? didn't we decorate those bomber crews as heroes? how is hamas firing rockets blindly into civilian areas any different? we find it unacceptable but what choice has been left to them, Israel has no intention of ever negotiating and the palestinians don't have the means to fight a conventional war... The first step along that way is to dehumanize the enemy. Turn them into gooks and savages who have no human qualities, so killing them is not the same as killing "real" people. I think the Nazis had a thing or two to say on the subject many years ago! as it's always been, standard pre war justification propaganda... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyly Posted November 22, 2012 Report Share Posted November 22, 2012 I specifically said "Who ends up with what" is none of my business, it's up to the Israelis and Palestinians/Arabs to figure that out in a hopeful peace deal that will hopefully occur sometime in the next millenium. unless the americans stop interfering by propping up the zionist regime with miltitary aid Israel has no need to negotiate a peaceful solution, Israel encourages violence as it aids it's primary objective of permanent occupation....were it not for american interferance this conflict would've been resolved decades ago Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 22, 2012 Report Share Posted November 22, 2012 "American interferance" (sic) is no match for the original Balfour Declaration coming from the land of Canada's favorite monarchy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlight Graham Posted November 22, 2012 Report Share Posted November 22, 2012 unless the americans stop interfering by propping up the zionist regime with miltitary aid Israel has no need to negotiate a peaceful solution, Israel encourages violence as it aids it's primary objective of permanent occupation....were it not for american interferance this conflict would've been resolved decades ago The US does prop up the regime so that it can protect a strong strategic ally in the notorious region. That's fine I get that, but why then is the US usually the "neutral" broker in modern peace negotiations between the Palestinians and Israel? Why would Palestinian leaders ever trust American leadership when they often act against their interests? Maybe another country or actor with little stake in the matter should host future peace talks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbg Posted November 22, 2012 Report Share Posted November 22, 2012 The US does prop up the regime so that it can protect a strong strategic ally in the notorious region. That's fine I get that, but why then is the US usually the "neutral" broker in modern peace negotiations between the Palestinians and Israel? Why would Palestinian leaders ever trust American leadership when they often act against their interests? Maybe another country or actor with little stake in the matter should host future peace talks? Perhaps the U.S. is the most reliably beneficent powerful country? Who'd be your other choice, China? Burundi? Myanmar? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonam Posted November 22, 2012 Report Share Posted November 22, 2012 How many settlements have been built or expanded, forcing Palestinians off their land? How is that any more acceptable? Let's see. One is firing rockets at people in hopes of killing them. The other is building stuff where some people might not want it to be built. Gee... I wonder which is worse? Sigh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dre Posted November 22, 2012 Report Share Posted November 22, 2012 They could. There are a million plus Arab citizens living in Israel with equal rights. I wonder if an Arab state was formed, would they also allow Jews to live free and equal in their country? Terrible comparison. In any case there has been jews living in the occupied territories for a long time. They should be free to stay, but occupants of settlements built during the conflict should go home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dre Posted November 22, 2012 Report Share Posted November 22, 2012 Let's see. One is firing rockets at people in hopes of killing them. The other is building stuff where some people might not want it to be built. Gee... I wonder which is worse? Sigh. One is staging a brutal military occupation complete with theft of land of resources, the other shoots crude rockets roughly in the direction of their occupiers that have about a 1 in 100 chance of hitting anything. Gee... I wonder which is worse. Sigh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbg Posted November 22, 2012 Report Share Posted November 22, 2012 One is staging a brutal military occupation complete with theft of land of resources, the other shoots crude rockets roughly in the direction of their occupiers that have about a 1 in 100 chance of hitting anything. Gee... I wonder which is worse. Sigh. The Great Rift Valley of Africa would be a very crowded place were it not for a series of "brutal military occupations," also known as human migration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dre Posted November 22, 2012 Report Share Posted November 22, 2012 The Great Rift Valley of Africa would be a very crowded place were it not for a series of "brutal military occupations," also known as human migration. Write another reply, but this time one that makes sense in some vague sort of way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 22, 2012 Report Share Posted November 22, 2012 (edited) .... Why would Palestinian leaders ever trust American leadership when they often act against their interests? Maybe another country or actor with little stake in the matter should host future peace talks? Because the U.S. will pay the freight. There is another country that advertises itself as the world's GREAT PEACEKEEPER and HONEST BROKER, but it does not want to ever pick up the check cheque. Edited November 22, 2012 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIP Posted November 22, 2012 Report Share Posted November 22, 2012 Perhaps the Arabs should have thought about that before provoking the 1967 War by getting ready to invade from Egypt, Syria and Jordan. And of course the previous adventure in 1948. And again from Egypt and Syria in 1973. I think they are dehumanizing themselves. The 1972 Olympic Massacre. Kiryot Schmoneh (sp). September 11. Missile attacks on civilian areas. The list goes on and on. Maybe you could explain what 9/11 has to do with ME events - the most recent one you mention happening 40 years ago now. Are you arguing that Arabs are incorrigible, and there are no means to live at peace with them? If so, is the only thing stopping the genocide advocated by Gilad Sharon, the growing sense in Israel that their list of allies is shrinking, and if they go too far, Americans might start demanding that their Government cut off the allowance, and AIPAC and all of the Christian Zionists won't be able to stop it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest American Woman Posted November 22, 2012 Report Share Posted November 22, 2012 Why would Palestinian leaders ever trust American leadership ..... Why would American leaders ever trust Palestinian leadership? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peeves Posted November 22, 2012 Report Share Posted November 22, 2012 Why would American leaders ever trust Palestinian leadership? Why would any? Certainly not the Fatah group, West Bank PLO thrown out of windows and murdered by Hamas in Gaza. Certainly not the Gazans, dragged in the street by motorcycles without benefit of trial or proof. (Aside: Mohamed said not to desecrate the bdies of your enemies) Certainly not the gays, Christians or Druze. Certainly not Israelis of any religion, sectarian order or politic given that they, even as civilian are targeted. Certainly not Sunni, not other Hamas that struggle for power. Certainly not Israel given the Hamas mandate is (similar to Iran's) to eradicate the Jew and State. That leaves a few weapons dealers that give them credit on rocket smuggling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuckistani Posted November 22, 2012 Report Share Posted November 22, 2012 Let's see. One is firing rockets at people in hopes of killing them. The other is building stuff where some people might not want it to be built. Gee... I wonder which is worse? Sigh. If they build stuff over your house, with force of arms behind them, you might not be so sanguine about it. You might even try to kill the people doing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuckistani Posted November 22, 2012 Report Share Posted November 22, 2012 (edited) jbg, on 21 November 2012 - 10:03 PM, said:The Great Rift Valley of Africa would be a very crowded place were it not for a series of "brutal military occupations," also known as human migration. Write another reply, but this time one that makes sense in some vague sort of way. It's the this is the way it's always been defence. But note the screaming when the enemy talks about pushing Israel into the sea. All of a sudden that's genocide, but pushing the Palestinians into the Jordon is just meh. Edited November 22, 2012 by Canuckistani Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyly Posted November 22, 2012 Report Share Posted November 22, 2012 It's the this is the way it's always been defence. But note the screaming when the enemy talks about pushing Israel into the sea. All of a sudden that's genocide, but pushing the Palestinians into the Jordon is just meh. yup it's all one sided rhetoric, " the other guys are evil we are absolutely blameless, there is nothing wrong with ethnic cleansing god said we could do it".... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peeves Posted November 24, 2012 Report Share Posted November 24, 2012 If they build stuff over your house, with force of arms behind them, you might not be so sanguine about it. You might even try to kill the people doing it. Aren't Arabs helping in the building the Israeli settlements? I think Arabs are building malls and hotels with Israels help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peeves Posted November 24, 2012 Report Share Posted November 24, 2012 yup it's all one sided rhetoric, " the other guys are evil we are absolutely blameless, there is nothing wrong with ethnic cleansing god said we could do it".... Your reference to ethnic cleansing is neither apropriate nor acceptable, it's pure unadulterated trolling and I could report you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbg Posted November 24, 2012 Report Share Posted November 24, 2012 Write another reply, but this time one that makes sense in some vague sort of way. That makes lots of sense. My point is that populations move and are displaced all the time. Why is it only the Jews that shouldn't have their own state? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peeves Posted November 24, 2012 Report Share Posted November 24, 2012 One is staging a brutal military occupation complete with theft of land of resources, the other shoots crude rockets roughly in the direction of their occupiers that have about a 1 in 100 chance of hitting anything. Gee... I wonder which is worse. Sigh. That certainly attempts to diminish the threat and terror that Israelis are subjected to on a daily basis. Do you know the number of rockets fired at Israeli civilians since the Gaza was left completely to the Arabs? What is dramatically worse is the rocket threat and terror, with out question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyly Posted November 24, 2012 Report Share Posted November 24, 2012 That makes lots of sense. My point is that populations move and are displaced all the time. Why is it only the Jews that shouldn't have their own state? why should they?do Mormons? Mennonites? Amish? Hutterites? Scientologists? Jehovah's Witness? and a thousand other religious minorities have their own state...where is the rule that says every obscure religion deserves their own state...are you volunteering your state/home for a new Mennonite homeland? or is it's some other people's home/country that you intend to give away, maybe you want give canada away to the scientologists?..we canadians would understand we'll happily restrict ourselves to Bantustans while the Scientologists claim whatever territory/resources that they desire... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyly Posted November 24, 2012 Report Share Posted November 24, 2012 (edited) Your reference to ethnic cleansing is neither apropriate nor acceptable, it's pure unadulterated trolling and I could report you. bs...in your bubble world anyone who expresses a different opinion than you is trolling....ethnic cleansing of palestinians in Israel is absolute fact, because you have the zionist equivalence of "holocaust denial" is not my problem... Edited November 24, 2012 by wyly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyly Posted November 24, 2012 Report Share Posted November 24, 2012 (edited) Why would any? Certainly not the Fatah group, West Bank PLO thrown out of windows and murdered by Hamas in Gaza. Certainly not the Gazans, dragged in the street by motorcycles without benefit of trial or proof. (Aside: Mohamed said not to desecrate the bdies of your enemies) Certainly not the gays, Christians or Druze. Certainly not Israelis of any religion, sectarian order or politic given that they, even as civilian are targeted. Certainly not Sunni, not other Hamas that struggle for power. Certainly not Israel given the Hamas mandate is (similar to Iran's) to eradicate the Jew and State. That leaves a few weapons dealers that give them credit on rocket smuggling. Your reference to ethnic cleansing murder religious slander ethnic cleansing (it was right the first time) is neither appropriate nor acceptable, it's pure unadulterated trolling and I could report you.hypocrisy is such a wonderful word... Edited November 24, 2012 by wyly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted November 24, 2012 Report Share Posted November 24, 2012 why should they? do Mormons? Mennonites? Amish? Hutterites? Scientologists? Jehovah's Witness? and a thousand other religious minorities have their own state...where is the rule that says every obscure religion deserves their own state...are you volunteering your state/home for a new Mennonite homeland? or is it's some other people's home/country that you intend to give away, maybe you want give canada away to the scientologists?..we canadians would understand we'll happily restrict ourselves to Bantustans while the Scientologists claim whatever territory/resources that they desire... Pennsylvania and Utah. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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