Guest American Woman Posted November 16, 2012 Report Posted November 16, 2012 You seem to forget that November 8th was proceeded by other dates on the calendar.http://en.wikipedia....on_Israel,_2012 So, give it a rest. You blurb might work at CBC...but not here. He also fails to note that the article in the source he cited states that, emphasis mine, "the incident broke nearly two weeks of a lull in violence between Gaza gunmen and Israeli forces [...]," not that Israel broke the lull in violence. Yet here's the way "Hudson"/Hudson's source* presented it - Self-defense or provocation: Israel's history of breaking ceasefires - TIMELINE: ISRAEL'S LATEST ESCALATION IN GAZA - Following a two-week lull in violence, Israeli soldiers invade Gaza. [...] It's all Israel. As for the "incident," which Hudson's timeline describes as Israeli soldiers invading Gaza, according to the link in the timeline: "Terrorists opened fire at IDF (Israeli Defense Forces) soldiers while they were performing routine activity adjacent to the security fence," an Israeli military spokeswoman said in Jerusalem. An Israeli military official said the soldiers responded by firing at "suspicious locations". "Routine activity" hardly sounds like an "invasion," and firing back hardly sounds as if Israel broke the "ceasefire." The link in his timeline also states that "...the last wave of fighting [...] killed several militants, mostly from Hamas." Sounds like Israel's goal, to me. Quote
DogOnPorch Posted November 16, 2012 Report Posted November 16, 2012 AW: It's all Israel. Pallywood is in overdrive at the moment. Corpses to move and civilians to herd around for effect. I believe the only possible goal Hamas has here is to somehow get Egypt to go to war with Israel. It might work, sadly...but Egypt is certainly not ready to take on the IDF...shiny new US weapons or not. It would be a horrible slaughter. They're like old fat guys next to the Klitschko brothers. Out of training...out of shape. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Guest American Woman Posted November 16, 2012 Report Posted November 16, 2012 Pallywood is in overdrive at the moment. Corpses to move and civilians to herd around for effect. I believe the only possible goal Hamas has here is to somehow get Egypt to go to war with Israel. It might work, sadly...but Egypt is certainly not ready to take on the IDF...shiny new US weapons or not. It would be a horrible slaughter. They're like old fat guys next to the Klitschko brothers. Out of training...out of shape. I don't think the IDF would hold back with Egypt - and I think Egypt knows that. I also thinks Egypt knows what kind of reaction it would get from Canada, the U.S., Australia, Great Britain, (and for bcsapper ) Scotland et al if it were to go to war with Israel. I just don't see it happening - but then, I "never say never." Quote
scribblet Posted November 16, 2012 Report Posted November 16, 2012 (edited) So what you are saying is that the pesky left is holding Israel back from killing more Palestinians and taking more Palestinian land ? * Damn you LEEEEEEEEEEFFFFT! * I'm saying that Israel has to be very mindful of casualties because no matter what they do, their left wing detractors scream and rant about Israel while ignoring the terror attacks, kidnappings and continual missile attacks etc. etc. committed by Hamas. Hamas can kill, maim, deliberately aim missiles at schools (this week) hide in schools, hide behind women and children, kidnap soldiers and others. That's okay though, I know, those 'joos' have it coming but Israel can't lift a finger in case they might hit a terrorist lobbing rockets at them. http://www.jewishvir...sm/victims.html Israel should invade Gaza help rebuild, then set up a gov't sans terrorists and stay there until the 'Palestinians' wake up and understand that Israel will not allow them to indiscriminately lob missiles into Israel. The money saved from dismantling the rocket industry would likely pay for rebuilding the infrastructure and feed the people. Even if Israel agreed to close the settlements you are delusional if you think would stop that terrorist organization who's only goal is to commit genocide against Jews. Uploaded with ImageShack.us Edited November 16, 2012 by scribblet Quote Hey Ho - Ontario Liberals Have to Go - Fight Wynne - save our province
DogOnPorch Posted November 16, 2012 Report Posted November 16, 2012 I don't think the IDF would hold back with Egypt - and I think Egypt knows that. I also thinks Egypt knows what kind of reaction it would get from Canada, the U.S., Australia, Great Britain, (and for bcsapper ) Scotland et al if it were to go to war with Israel. I just don't see it happening - but then, I "never say never." Egypt did this before, though, in 1967. Nasser...feeling rather brave with his new Russian weapons...started railing hard against Israel. Hard language calling for blood and horizons filled with fire. His objective, though, was not outright war with Israel. He hoped to create a prolonged crisis where the Israelis would be forced to field their reserves for weeks on end. Trouble is, the Egyptian people thought all that blood and fire stuff was what he was going to do...and popular support surged for war. He was sort of painted into a corner and mobilized the army and moved it to the Israeli border. Israel, watching all this happen, weren't going to wait for the hammer to fall...and acted. So, I guess I'm saying...anything is possible with Egypt once it gets charged up for war. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Merlin Posted November 16, 2012 Report Posted November 16, 2012 Pretty much. Though many now tend to use mobile launchers. Wow, that is very neat but also very scary to know that a big silo is no longer needed to launch a nuclear missile. Too bad that one wasn't in English. Thanks for the links. Quote
DogOnPorch Posted November 17, 2012 Report Posted November 17, 2012 Uploaded with ImageShack.us Pretty much. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Argus Posted November 17, 2012 Report Posted November 17, 2012 With the exception of small number of Israelis, majority of Israelis have turned into rabid racists whose own government calls for wiping out a whole people. It's like an experiment gone wrong. Even more astonishing is when they're up in arms when Hamas members make similar comments about Israelis and Jews, like they're somehow different. What's unsurprising is that you are appalled at the way this sort of violence causes the Israelis to use such politically incorrect language towards their lifelong enemies, yet show no such botheration that the Palestinians do the same -- or worse. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted November 17, 2012 Report Posted November 17, 2012 The information by Hudson Jones is rather interesting. I find it entirely one-sided and lacking context or even interest in context myself. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
dre Posted November 17, 2012 Report Posted November 17, 2012 I don't think the IDF would hold back with Egypt - and I think Egypt knows that. I also thinks Egypt knows what kind of reaction it would get from Canada, the U.S., Australia, Great Britain, (and for bcsapper ) Scotland et al if it were to go to war with Israel. I just don't see it happening - but then, I "never say never." Egypt isnt going to do squat. They are currently trying to secure 4 billion dollars worth of aid from western nations, and the last thing they are going to do is kick the wests pet. Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
DogOnPorch Posted November 17, 2012 Report Posted November 17, 2012 (edited) Wow, that is very neat but also very scary to know that a big silo is no longer needed to launch a nuclear missile. Too bad that one wasn't in English. Thanks for the links. If it is of any consolation, nuclear weapons are somewhat smaller today than they were in the 1950s and 60s. Most warheads are now under a megaton but still many times larger than Fat Man or Little Boy. In the early 1960s, the Russians built a 100mt hydrogen bomb that was air deliverable. That's a VERY big bang. They dropped it only once in testing with the yield reduced to a mere 50mt. To compare, the largest US detonation was Castle Bravo at 15mt. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YG3FRTs2rlY Edited November 17, 2012 by DogOnPorch Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Argus Posted November 17, 2012 Report Posted November 17, 2012 Did you see the video from Egypt AW posted? Rather chilling. Arabs hate Jews. That's no surprise. I remember the media talking to some revolutionaries in Libya, a while back, while the fight was winding down. They were eager to go to now go on to Israel and kill Jews. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted November 17, 2012 Report Posted November 17, 2012 Israel broke a ceasefire by first killing 6 Hamas members and then assassinating a Hamas leader. Anyone can see that this is provocation by Israel who counts on a Hamas response. Really? When did they break this ceasefire? According to the piece I posted the Palestinians have been lobbing hundreds of rockets into Israel for many months now. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
DogOnPorch Posted November 17, 2012 Report Posted November 17, 2012 Egypt isnt going to do squat. They are currently trying to secure 4 billion dollars worth of aid from western nations, and the last thing they are going to do is kick the wests pet. Who knows what Egypt will do. When an entire stadium full of football fans starts calling for the next Holocaust...a good cross section of the people, I assume...the government might do well to listen least they end up like the last guy... Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
DogOnPorch Posted November 17, 2012 Report Posted November 17, 2012 Arabs hate Jews. That's no surprise. I remember the media talking to some revolutionaries in Libya, a while back, while the fight was winding down. They were eager to go to now go on to Israel and kill Jews. Yes...I recall similar stories. Judging by the uniforms in the back row, Jordanian Arab Legion members...circa 1948 Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
dre Posted November 17, 2012 Report Posted November 17, 2012 Who knows what Egypt will do. When an entire stadium full of football fans starts calling for the next Holocaust...a good cross section of the people, I assume...the government might do well to listen least they end up like the last guy... I do... I just told you exactly what they are going to do, so watch it happen. Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
DogOnPorch Posted November 17, 2012 Report Posted November 17, 2012 I do... I just told you exactly what they are going to do, so watch it happen. Yes, sir! Yeah, Egyptians would NEVER gather in large groups to oust the current government if they don't like the results. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Guest Derek L Posted November 17, 2012 Report Posted November 17, 2012 (edited) And the plot thickens: http://www.ynetnews....4306834,00.html Home Front Command asks local authorities to prepare for seven-week fighting period: In discussions held between Home Front Command Chief Major-General Eyal Eisenberg, regional commanders and heads of local authorities in the center and in the south... Edited November 17, 2012 by Derek L Quote
DogOnPorch Posted November 17, 2012 Report Posted November 17, 2012 Yes....3 or 4 divisions worth of reserves are being called-up. That's a fair size group of soldiers. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Merlin Posted November 17, 2012 Report Posted November 17, 2012 I don't see anything wrong with a nations government protecting its citizens. I would demand the same thing from our government if we were being attacked. Hamas is targeting civilians, Israel is not. Quote
Guest Derek L Posted November 17, 2012 Report Posted November 17, 2012 Yes....3 or 4 divisions worth of reserves are being called-up. That's a fair size group of soldiers. Be extremely subtle, even to the point of formlessness. Be extremely mysterious, even to the point of soundlessness. Thereby you can be the director of the opponent's fate. ~ Some Chinese guy Was talking to a friend earlier today and he “suggested to me”, that those questionable “accidents” involving the Iranians defence programs earlier this year might not have been at the hands of the Mossad, but of the GIP………Now the Israelis certainly did “lend a hand” to the Shah’s intelligence forces back in the 70s when they were more at odds with the Saudis…….but could this be turn about? Israel, Saudi Arabia and a mixture of smaller Gulf States working together to put the fix on their more aggressive neighbours? Israel invades Gaza……..Iran increases weapons shipments….Israel uses this as the final demonstration of Mens rea on the part of Iran…….Then Iranian nuclear and leaderships facilities are bombed by the IAF, via a waypoint south of KKMC, and supported quietly by aircraft sporting a different roundel: Quote
DogOnPorch Posted November 17, 2012 Report Posted November 17, 2012 Be extremely subtle, even to the point of formlessness. Be extremely mysterious, even to the point of soundlessness. Thereby you can be the director of the opponent's fate. ~ Some Chinese guy Was talking to a friend earlier today and he “suggested to me”, that those questionable “accidents” involving the Iranians defence programs earlier this year might not have been at the hands of the Mossad, but of the GIP………Now the Israelis certainly did “lend a hand” to the Shah’s intelligence forces back in the 70s when they were more at odds with the Saudis…….but could this be turn about? Israel, Saudi Arabia and a mixture of smaller Gulf States working together to put the fix on their more aggressive neighbours? Israel invades Gaza……..Iran increases weapons shipments….Israel uses this as the final demonstration of Mens rea on the part of Iran…….Then Iranian nuclear and leaderships facilities are bombed by the IAF, via a waypoint south of KKMC, and supported quietly by aircraft sporting a different roundel: Quite possible, indeed. I note the timing is after the US election during a looming Presidential scandal. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Hudson Jones Posted November 17, 2012 Author Report Posted November 17, 2012 You seem to forget that November 8th was proceeded by other dates on the calendar. http://en.wikipedia....on_Israel,_2012 So, give it a rest. You blurb might work at CBC...but not here. How is that any different from previous months? More of these homemade rockets that rarely even make it past the border. Like kids playing with fireworks. I know it's going off the script, but many in the Israeli and international media are able to go beyond the superficial "self defense" justification. Again, many are pointing at the elections as the reason. Much like it was the reason the last time Israel carpet bombed Gaza: Haaretz Netanyahu's election rivals can't help but support Gaza warTo oppose the military operation in the Gaza Strip would be political suicide for Shelly Yacimovich and Yair Lapid - they have jumped on the Barak-Netanyahu bandwagon. Guardian With Israel and Hamas engaged in their most violent confrontation since 2009, columnist Jonathan Freedland considers the factors influencing the timing of Israel's attack on Gaza. Israel holds a general election on January 22, and the conservative prime minister Binyamin Netanyahu has pledged to retaliate harshly against Hamas 972mag Politicians line up behind Israeli assault on Gaza Israel launches a fresh operation on the Gaza Strip, killing Hamas leader Ahmed Jabari and several civilians. In the meanwhile, the opposition has never seemed so haggard. Haaretz For Netanyahu, Gaza escalation could pave the way to Iran strikeUntil this week, Prime Minister Netanyahu took pride in never having lead Israel into a war. Now he may be on the verge of starting not one but two. Quote When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always. Gandhi
DogOnPorch Posted November 17, 2012 Report Posted November 17, 2012 (edited) I think if you're lucky, Egypt will throw it's hat into the ring and perhaps bail out Hamas if they want to risk war with Israel. BTW: the buzz words 'carpet bomb' only applies when something actually gets carpet bombed. Edited November 17, 2012 by DogOnPorch Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Hudson Jones Posted November 17, 2012 Author Report Posted November 17, 2012 I think if you're lucky, Egypt will throw it's hat into the ring and perhaps bail out Hamas if they want to risk war with Israel. Nobody but Bibi, Barak and their lemmings want a war. Quote When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always. Gandhi
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