Ontario Principals Standing up for Students..

[Fletch 27]

http://www.thestar.c...et-report-cards

Principals are holding back on submitting Report-Cards due to the lack of comment... Of coarse the leftist "Star" continues to state the comment could be something like "student progressing well". Now how would a parent fell if that comment was "Student not progressing well" ??

The teachers protest is impacting Parents and Students more and more...

My neighbors (4 families covering 3 schools with 9 students enroled) have asked for joint "Teacher and Principal" meetings for thier children and the Principals have agreed to meet.... They will be voicing the poor performance of the teachers over-all...

Why not start a PARENT protest and shut these terrorists down??

Edited November 9, 2012 by Fletch 27

[jacee]

http://www.thestar.c...et-report-cards

Principals are holding back on submitting Report-Cards due to the lack of comment... Of coarse the leftist "Star" continues to state the comment could be something like "student progressing well". Now how would a parent fell if that comment was "Student not progressing well" ??

The teachers protest is impacting Parents and Students more and more...

My neighbors (4 families covering 3 schools with 9 students enroled) have asked for joint "Teacher and Principal" meetings for thier children and the Principals have agreed to meet.... They will be voicing the poor performance of the teachers over-all...

Why not start a PARENT protest and shut these terrorists down??

Why not save the catastrophizing about "terrorists" for something remotely resembling terror?

If parents want more info, they can book an interview with the teacher.

[madmax]

Just had Parent Teacher interviews here.

Yawn.

[Michael Hardner]

Here's something that some teacher friends pointed out to me this week:

They are not holding back extracurricular activities.

So - this is somewhat of an improvement of how they worked-to-rule over the last few times and what is their reward for this concession ? Escalated rhetoric and being called terrorists.

The empty rhetoric from the extreme right wing is just noise.

[Fletch 27]

Here's something that some teacher friends pointed out to me this week:

They are not holding back extracurricular activities.

So - this is somewhat of an improvement of how they worked-to-rule over the last few times and what is their reward for this concession ? Escalated rhetoric and being called terrorists.

The empty rhetoric from the extreme right wing is just noise.

Yes, Its a great improvement...... They are only effecting the Students ability to learn or be mentored now as opposed to "Soccer" practice. Im glad your teacher friends have the students priorities in Order. We should probably thank these hard workn' teachers.... Yes, they are doing a GREAT job now..

PS: Why does a disagreement with your position always amount to "Empty rhetoric" and "from the extreme right? I can assure you ALL of the young adults with families in my neighborhood are in 100 percent agreement! Empty rhetoric my butt.... Shall i call your position "socialist lefty tail coddling"??? Why not leave the names and false accusations out of it. Its MY opinion and stance thanks very much

Edited November 9, 2012 by Fletch 27

[Michael Hardner]

Yes, Its a great improvement...... They are only effecting the Students ability to learn or be mentored now as opposed to "Soccer" practice.

Right... I`m glad you agree it`s an improvement. The outrage goes from fake hot to fake white-hot.

I wish there were an "ignore" button on my TV and radio.

Im glad your teacher friends have the students priorities in Order. We should probably thank these hard workn' teachers.... Yes, they are doing a GREAT job now..

They have to fight for what they want just like you do. Sorry that you don't like how that works, but it's been around since 1973 so let's not pretend that these new concessions are some new source of anger from the fakers.

Let's be honest - you want there to be no unions, and if there were no unions you'd be happy for awhile but then you'd want wages and benefits to go lower. Then you'd want them to work in the summer.

Until we're back in the slavery days, there's lots for your types to keep yelling about.

PS: Why does a disagreement with your position always amount to "Empty rhetoric" and "from the extreme right?

Because it`s not geared towards mutually agreement or compromise. The anger won`t subside ever so why should anybody try to negotiate to satisfy the extreme right ?

The answer is that they shouldn't.

I can assure you ALL of the young adults with families in my neighborhood are in 100 percent agreement! Empty rhetoric my butt.... Shall i call your position "socialist lefty tail coddling"??? Why not leave the names and false accusations out of it. Its MY opinion and stance thanks very much

And the outrage rises along with the lies. Of course it's 100% agreement, what else would it be in your opinion. Temperature goes up... rhetoric increases.

My advice is for reasonable people to leave the shouters outside the room where negotiations are happening.

[Fletch 27]

Soooo Michael, You are in FULL support of your Union buddies.. Bleeding more and more money from our briken system,, Well, sounds like broken since 1973??? But you are AGAINTS anyone standing up to this brutal invasion of a students right to learn. Yes, Sounds like your UNIONS are the ones mistreating, manipulating and depressing the rest of society.

Not all Unions Michael,. The Bricklayers union, trades and other are A-OK in m y books.. The TEachers Union and Public service Unions should be dismantled... piece by piece,,

You think im the "Only One" pissed off? Have a look at the comment in the Toronto Star today.... A massive Majority have had ENOUGH! And No Michael, thats not fake.....

[Michael Hardner]

Soooo Michael, You are in FULL support of your Union buddies.. Bleeding more and more money from our briken system,,

No - but I will strongly advise them to leave you out of the discussion.

Well, sounds like broken since 1973??? But you are AGAINTS anyone standing up to this brutal invasion of a students right to learn. Yes, Sounds like your UNIONS are the ones mistreating, manipulating and depressing the rest of society.

Exactly. A system that has worked very well for a long time is the source of ALL CAPS, misspellings and web yelling.

Moving on...

Not all Unions Michael,. The Bricklayers union, trades and other are A-OK in m y books..

For now, you mean.

No Michael, thats not fake.....

I don`t think you`re the only one pissed off, but I don`t think 100% of your neighbourhood is either.

This indicates binary thinking on your part - which may explain the unrelenting Niagara Falls of anger pouring out of you 24/7.

[Mighty AC]

Yes, Its a great improvement...... They are only effecting the Students ability to learn or be mentored now as opposed to "Soccer" practice.

How are report cards with terse comments and the option of an in person interview "effecting the Students ability to learn"?

[Big Guy]

Any “job action” by teachers is meant to draw the public’s attention to some injustice with the intent that the public will agree with their position, place pressure on the government and force the government to take a position more supportive of what the teachers want. The problem with the current action is that the public already knows the working conditions and the issues and the vast majority is not supporting the union position. Every “job action” makes the public even angrier – with the teachers. These protests are self-defeating for teachers.

The other major problem for the teachers union is that the rest of the public service unions are pressuring the teachers union to “draw a line in the sand” because whatever happens with the teachers will be a template for the rest of the negotiations with all of the other unions. Many teachers understand that, resent that and do not like to be used as “cannon fodder” for public service unions.

I think that the teacher unions may be making a mistake on this one. This battle is lost and they are fighting the battle now for other public service unions. Teachers are not generally militant. Those union reps in schools usually are elected by default; usually not upwardly mobile in the profession and generally not well respected by those who do all those extra volunteer activities. The vote for these sanctions (hypothetical at the time) took place a long time ago and I submit if that vote was taken now that the results would not show a large majority support.

[Michael Hardner]

The problem with the current action is that the public already knows the working conditions and the issues and the vast majority is not supporting the union position.

I'm going to stop you right there -> do you have a source ? Last week I looked for a poll on this and related subjects but couldn't find one. This week there are two, but they are online polls and not accurate. In any case:

Kingston Poll - 86% in favour of teachers:

http://www.kingstonist.com/2012/09/17/ontario-teachers-anti-strike-law/

City TV Poll - 78% in favour of teachers:

http://www.citytv.com/toronto/citynews/news/local/article/230564--teachers-unions-launch-legal-challenges-against-ontario

Got a poll ? Post it.

[Fletch 27]

Ahhh yes... so YOUR polls are accurate?! Got it Michael...... Your "TV poll" is accurate??? Got it...

Ohhh, and your "Post a poll" Here: http://www.northumbe...splay&sid=17013

Some commenbts from it cuz you wont read it..

Canadians appear to favour a situation where teachers are prevented from striking. Seven in ten (71%) ‘agree’ (36% strongly/35% somewhat) that ‘teachers should be considered an essential service – and therefore should not have the right to strike’. Three in ten (29%) ‘disagree’ (8% strongly/21% somewhat) with the idea of designating teachers an essential service. Residents of Saskatchewan and Manitoba (76%), Ontario (74%), and Quebec (73%) are most likely to agree that teachers shouldn’t have the right to strike since they provide an essential service.

Canadians also believe that teachers should not only be giving out grades but receiving them also. Three quarters (77%) ‘agree’ (31% strongly/46% somewhat) that ‘teachers should be graded by principals, parents and students on their effectiveness’, while one quarter (23%) ‘disagree’ (5% strongly/17% somewhat) with this point of view. Albertans (83%), Ontarians (81%), and Atlantic Canadians (81%) are most likely to agree that teachers should be graded on their effectiveness.

YEa, a "poll".... Now go outside your room and ask a neighbor...

Edited November 9, 2012 by Fletch 27

[Michael Hardner]

Ahhh yes... so YOUR polls are accurate?! Got it Michael...... Your "TV poll" is accurate??? Got it...

Ohhh, and your "Post a poll" Here: http://www.northumbe...splay&sid=17013

Some commenbts from it cuz you wont read it..

Nice of you to help out your team mate `Big Guy`. The bad news is: 1] you were wrong - I did read it. 2] it doesn't support what Big Guy said.

If you want to get a 3rd person to help the two of you argue against me, you may as well ...

Seven in ten (71%) ‘agree’ (36% strongly/35% somewhat) that ‘teachers should be considered an essential service – and therefore should not have the right to strike’.

The 'essential service' option is intriguing. It doesn't mean the union would go away, but it means that arbitration would kick in automatically and that arbitrators would likely reward the teachers with at least Cost of Living increases in many cases. Also, work to rule would still be a reality.

So your 1973 to 2012 anger would still be at 'red hot' levels if not 'white hot'.

[Fletch 27]

Umm Micheal. I started this thread...I dont need any "backing up".... Sorry you feel "attacked" for your position

And..... If a teacher gets "graded", and shows poor performance, he/she could face action such as "summer school"... maybe a pay-cut? Ultimatly, maybe get fired..... It seems 75 percent of Canadians arent really enjoying the hostage taking tactics of the Unions... Its umm..... "In the Poll"...

Yes, Michael... I am angry!

Enjoy the poll and article...

[jacee]

Soooo Michael, You are in FULL support of your Union buddies.. Bleeding more and more money from our briken system,, Well, sounds like broken since 1973??? But you are AGAINTS anyone standing up to this brutal invasion of a students right to learn. Yes, Sounds like your UNIONS are the ones mistreating, manipulating and depressing the rest of society.

Not all Unions Michael,. The Bricklayers union, trades and other are A-OK in m y books.. The TEachers Union and Public service Unions should be dismantled... piece by piece,,

You think im the "Only One" pissed off? Have a look at the comment in the Toronto Star today.... A massive Majority have had ENOUGH! And No Michael, thats not fake.....

I'm curious just how much you know about education, whether you have any contact at all with teachers or students.

I also think you're just spewing anti-union rhetoric with no real knowledge or valid concern about the issues involved.

I always think it's more important what involved parents think.

[Fletch 27]

Ahhhhh,, like the 75 Percent in the link?? Those Involved parents???? Or myself???

Ooo, and yes, I have 2 degrees... Mechanical engineering as well and Electronics Engineering..

Im not anti-union... Im anti Teachers union and Public service Unions....

[Merlin]

I think that many teachers themselves do a good job teaching our young children but of course some out there take advantage of the union. Sometimes it seems to me like the unions are too powerful. Every few years they seem to want to strike. Maybe it's time for the government to make some rules regarding Unions and what they can and cannot do. Maybe some forced, binding arbitration before the contract expires would help.

[cybercoma]

If you want to get a 3rd person to help the two of you argue against me, you may as

Ouch.

[Michael Hardner]

Umm Micheal. I started this thread...I dont need any "backing up".... Sorry you feel "attacked" for your position

Far from it. I would feel like Bruce Lee getting attacked by nine ninjas... except that there aren't nine, there are two... and they are actually muppets

It seems 75 percent of Canadians arent really enjoying the hostage taking tactics of the Unions... Its umm..... "In the Poll"...

I couldn't find that part.

Yes, Michael... I am angry!

Of course. Well, at least *you say* you're angry. Your emotional response is a human one and I respect that. If I knew you personally I might be able to say whether your reaction is more related to how you're put together, or is related to the situation we're talking about here. Seriously, I don't want you to be angry but I have posted with a lot of people on here (left and right) who will never be satisfied by answers that the mainstream accepts. I don't know what I can do for you, and honestly don't even think we should devote much time to including marginal views in the debate itself. It's hard enough getting the mainstream to agree.

[Michael Hardner]

Those of us on here who support the teachers - what bone could we throw to the emotional anti-union people on this thread ?

I do think that they should do more to assess teachers on a frequent basis - they're not doing that right now. I think it's at best an annual assessment. They can also ask for the union to work with them to reduce costs.

[Fletch 27]

Those of us on here who support the teachers - what bone could we throw to the emotional anti-union people on this thread ?

I do think that they should do more to assess teachers on a frequent basis - they're not doing that right now. I think it's at best an annual assessment. They can also ask for the union to work with them to reduce costs.

Um yea, They ARE asking them to help reduce costs!!! F-That! Sustain costs vie a wage freeze and teh answer is NO!

Im sorry you fell like your "getting beat up"...... Its almost over....

[Michael Hardner]

Um yea, They ARE asking them to help reduce costs!!! F-That! Sustain costs vie a wage freeze and teh answer is NO!

They agreed to a wage freeze, but not a freeze in seniority increases.

Im sorry you fell like your "getting beat up"...... Its almost over....

I fell [sic] like I'm getting beat up by muppets, which tickles !

[Fletch 27]

Oooo yes, Michael, lets simply forget, no.... lets "gloss over" Sick-day saccumulating into hundreds of millions and un-realistic pensions for your young retirees... Yes Michael, the UNION is reallly working with us.. Why dont you look at ALL of the facts as opposed to being spoon-fed from your union comrades...

But lets not stray how the teachers are impacting our youth and thier right to an education.... Again Michael, that is why this post was started...

And, enough with the name calling....

Edited November 9, 2012 by Fletch 27

[Michael Hardner]

Oooo yes, Michael, lets simply forget, no.... lets "gloss over" Sick-day saccumulating into hundreds of millions and un-realistic pensions for your young retirees...

How am I glossing that over when you just brought it up now ?

They are likely to concede some of those provisions as the Catholic board did. If they give some of those back will you still be angry ? The answer... is yes.

Yes Michael, the UNION is reallly working with us.. Why dont you look at ALL of the facts as opposed to being spoon-fed from your union comrades...

Well, let me explain how this works: you bring up a fact then I respond to it. I have made up my mind based on a few facts some of which you have brought up and some of which you haven't.

But lets not stray how the teachers are impacting our youth and thier right to an education.... Again Michael, that is why this post was started...

Right - and the unfortunate fact is that the teachers have a few tools to use when they're treated (as they see it) unfairly. They have a monopolistic employer, and they monopolize the labour pool so what else are we going to do about this ?

We've had lots of simple-minded suggestions (fire them!) that aren't practical. I have shown on this board that I'm willing to accept reasonable suggestoins

And, enough with the name calling....

Sorry - we're speaking in metaphors, so it's not you ... I don't meant to offend.

[DFCaper]

The problem is the teachers union is not a professional organization, but more of a Labour Union. I am totally against the actions of the teachers union, but I am relieved to know that in my area, the teachers decided to ignore the union, as they themselves didn't agree with the union.

I am relieved to know that the teachers are professional enough to ignore their labour union.

My concern is that if a union of professionals is this backwards, what hope do we have that the CAW/CEP to become a modern union like those in Germany and Japan. Not good.

Also, Michael, you must have more interest in the unions position than having kids caught up in this to have your attitude.