Fiscal Cliff

[sharkman]

Obama can't fix the US economy. He especially can't when Europe is on life support, and Asia is in a severe slowdown.

Yet Harper fixed our economy with the identical same Euro issues, etc.

[punked]

Yet Harper fixed our economy with the identical same Euro issues, etc.

Wait wait wait Canada has 7.4% unemployment and America has what 7.9? According to the pollsters it is closer to 7.0. I think we have different definitions of Fixed.

[Wayward Son]

Yet Harper fixed our economy with the identical same Euro issues, etc.

Comparing Canada and the US in the face of the financial crisis is kind of like comparing the wolf huffing and puffing at a house made of brick and a house made of straw. Bush left the US with a house made of straw.

[Merlin]

Interesting how the very first thing Obama announced he would do is raise taxes for everyone. And people behind him all cheered. Wierd and scary at the same time. I like Obama a lot but am worried about his constant need to spend and raise taxes.

[login]

I thought this was a funny quote so I'm sharing it

“Whatever happens, both sides are going to have to hold hands and jump,” Mr. Griffin said. “Other than the President, who is not up for re-election, everyone else has to come back and [a budget deal] is not going to be without risk for members of either party.”

Edited November 10, 2012 by login

[CPCFTW]

Wait wait wait Canada has 7.4% unemployment and America has what 7.9? According to the pollsters it is closer to 7.0. I think we have different definitions of Fixed.

Wait wait wait Canada has a 66.8% labour force participation rate vs Obama's 63.7%. Sorry you can't use you're lefty statistics with me around.

Real employment numbers:

61.8% employed in Canada (17.56M employed out of 28.41M working age population)

58.7% employed in US (143.384M employed out of 243.983M working age population)

3% more people employed in Canada.

And on top of that, 15 year olds are part of the working age population in Canada, whereas the US only counts those 16 and over. Why don't you take a guess what the 15 year old unemployment rate is like?

There's no question: Canada's current employment situation is far healthier than what Obama has created in the US. But I'm not surprised you tried to mislead people otherwise.

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/daily-quotidien/121102/t121102a001-eng.htm

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/empsit.pdf

Edited November 10, 2012 by CPCFTW

[CPCFTW]

Interesting how the very first thing Obama announced he would do is raise taxes for everyone. And people behind him all cheered. Wierd and scary at the same time. I like Obama a lot but am worried about his constant need to spend and raise taxes.

Yes it's a sad state of affairs. People in this world think democracy is about voting for a government to be robin hood for them.

[Pliny]

Yes it's a sad state of affairs. People in this world think democracy is about voting for a government to be robin hood for them.

Right, the exact problem with democracy today. It is about special interests and not the nation.

If you are an individual you should have the same rights as all other individuals, essentially the security of person and property and freedom from force being initiated against you. Government should not be granting rights or entitlements or privileges to any special interest group at the expense of others.

[Topaz]

The USA has many many millionaires and billionaires, and probably none of their kids ever go into the military to fight for this country. So the least thing these rich people could do is agree to pay more taxes to help out their country, so their kids will have a better life. The US is a breaking point and if the country doesn't come together as one and not as Republicans or Democrats, then the country could ended up have nothing. Isn't it time that Americans looked after themselves?

[cybercoma]

Yet Harper fixed our economy with the identical same Euro issues, etc.

Obama fixed the US economy enough to bring its unemployment rate in line with ours. Mind you our country had much stricter regulations on the financial industry that mitigated the economic disaster of 2008. I know you already know these things. That's why it's so difficult having any kind of intelligent discussion with people that believe they can live in an alternate reality where they just make up their own facts.

Edited November 10, 2012 by cybercoma

[punked]

Wait wait wait Canada has a 66.8% labour force participation rate vs Obama's 63.7%. Sorry you can't use you're lefty statistics with me around.

Real employment numbers:

61.8% employed in Canada (17.56M employed out of 28.41M working age population)

58.7% employed in US (143.384M employed out of 243.983M working age population)

3% more people employed in Canada.

And on top of that, 15 year olds are part of the working age population in Canada, whereas the US only counts those 16 and over. Why don't you take a guess what the 15 year old unemployment rate is like?

There's no question: Canada's current employment situation is far healthier than what Obama has created in the US. But I'm not surprised you tried to mislead people otherwise.

http://www.statcan.g...102a001-eng.htm

http://www.bls.gov/n.../pdf/empsit.pdf

Wait wait wait Canada has a 66.8% labour force participation rate vs Obama's 63.7%. Sorry you can't use you're lefty statistics with me around.

Real employment numbers:

61.8% employed in Canada (17.56M employed out of 28.41M working age population)

58.7% employed in US (143.384M employed out of 243.983M working age population)

3% more people employed in Canada.

And on top of that, 15 year olds are part of the working age population in Canada, whereas the US only counts those 16 and over. Why don't you take a guess what the 15 year old unemployment rate is like?

There's no question: Canada's current employment situation is far healthier than what Obama has created in the US. But I'm not surprised you tried to mislead people otherwise.

http://www.statcan.g...102a001-eng.htm

http://www.bls.gov/n.../pdf/empsit.pdf

Yah you are confusing stats here. Want to tell me how many undocumented workers are working in the US vs. Canada and how you factored those into the numbers? Many estimates put the number between 10-15 million. Factor those in and the numbers are the same. Which is why I compared the unemployment rates because then I am comparing apples to apples.

Edited November 10, 2012 by punked

[sharkman]

Obama fixed the US economy enough to bring its unemployment rate in line with ours. Mind you our country had much stricter regulations on the financial industry that mitigated the economic disaster of 2008. I know you already know these things. That's why it's so difficult having any kind of intelligent discussion with people that believe they can live in an alternate reality where they just make up their own facts.

An alternate reality that considers the US/Canadian economies and unemployment rates to be 'in line' with each other. I know what you mean.

[sharkman]

Obama can't fix the US economy. He especially can't when Europe is on life support, and Asia is in a severe slowdown.

Maybe you and cyber should get together and get your realities and stories straight.

[dre]

Let's not forget to thank the Senators and Congressmen who voted "yes" ....

Not to mention the voters who elected Obama when he ran on healthcare reform, and again after "obamacare" had been legislated, and consistantly name healthcare reform as one of the top 3 priorities for them when polled.

[CPCFTW]

Yah you are confusing stats here. Want to tell me how many undocumented workers are working in the US vs. Canada and how you factored those into the numbers? Many estimates put the number between 10-15 million. Factor those in and the numbers are the same. Which is why I compared the unemployment rates because then I am comparing apples to apples.

Yes only the US has undocumented workers...

"Apples to apples"... You always give me a good laugh.

[Shady]

Since Obamacare will now remain the law of the land, small and medium sized businesses will shed workers to get under the 50 employee limit, or convert them to contractors without benefits. Thanks Barack!

Yep, or limit their hours to less than 30, to avoid some of the heavier costs of the regulations.

[Shady]

Obama can't fix the US economy.

The he needs to step the f aside and let somebody that will fix the economy try to do so. At the very least, if he can't fix things, he should take the 'do no harm' approach. But he IS doing harm. Lots of it.

[bush_cheney2004]

....The USA has many many millionaires and billionaires, and probably none of their kids ever go into the military to fight for this country. So the least thing these rich people could do is agree to pay more taxes to help out their country, so their kids will have a better life.

Both of these notions are false, first because some of their "kids" have/do enter the military and there are not enough "rich people" to tax.

What are the tax rates in Canada ?

• 15% on the first $42,707 of taxable income, +
  
• 22% on the next $42,707 of taxable income (on the portion of taxable income over $42,707 up to $85,414), +
  
• 26% on the next $46,992 of taxable income (on the portion of taxable income over $85,414 up to $132,406), +
  
• 29% of taxable income over $132,406.
  

[dre]

The he needs to step the f aside and let somebody that will fix the economy try to do so. At the very least, if he can't fix things, he should take the 'do no harm' approach. But he IS doing harm. Lots of it.

You live in a fantasy world Shady.Presidents dont "fix" economies anywhere besides magical whimsical "Shady Land".

[Shady]

You live in a fantasy world Shady.Presidents dont "fix" economies anywhere besides magical whimsical "Shady Land".

Nope, they absolutely can fix economies with sound economic policies. Unlike Obama's which are counter to economic growth. Raising taxes on small businesses is bad policy. So is undermining energy production and development through EPA regulations that are not voted on by congress. So is hampering businesses in general with higher costs via Obamacare. That's not "Shady Land", that's reality. But it doesn't have to be, if Obama knew his econoimc a$$ from a hole in the ground. But he doesn't. He's a complete disaster. But I know, I know, Romney's rich.

[Smallc]

Nope, they absolutely can fix economies with sound economic policies.

Not in the face of the current world reality. You should really stick to issues that you know about....although I'm not sure which issues those are.

[WIP]

So Barack Obama emerges victorious from the ashes of this most costly, vicious, negative and destructive presidential campaign in US history. This monumental battle has left the power structure basically the same but teetering. Meanwhile, the cost to that nation is far beyond the estimated $3 billion price tag. This campaign has pitted young against old, white against non-white, male against female, rural against urban and rich against poor. America emerges from this fray as a troubled nation of two angry, polarized and entrenched camps.

It should be made clear that the divisiveness was all from one side - the Republicans. The U.S. MSM is so flacid and intellectually lazy, they mostly label a dispute...any dispute....as caused by both sides in the conflict, so they can pretend to be perched on that fence and remain "bipartisan."

The fallout from this election will be felt if, as I personally believe, the world is getting very close to the reasonable limits of resource extraction - especially oil! Oil and many other non-renewable resources are giving the appearance of being demand driven, as resource-rich nations either cannot or will not increase supplies enough to meet any increased demand. With that economic reality, the U.S. (an oil-dependent empire) has no more capacity to significantly increase economic growth...although it should be mentioned on this side that oil producing nations like Canada (if we count tar sands oil) are only one step ahead of the oil-dependent countries.

Obama has won this pyrrhic victory

The present drama about a "fiscal cliff" is something that has been looming and growing in size for years. Up till now, the assumption that undergirds all forms of capitalist economics (whether liberal or conservative) has been that economic growth is a natural state for an economy, and no regard is accorded for any hard obstacles to growth - like available arable land, non-renewable and renewable natural resources, or losses through environmental degradation. Everything is assumed to go up, because that's what people want and have come to expect over the last 150 years. The U.S. and eventually every other capitalist economy is going to plunge over that fiscal cliff because the costs and restructuring needs for any sort of steady state economy are not considered politically viable by either liberals or conservatives.

So, it is very likely that Obama will not be able to juice the money supply and expand debt levels for another four years, and will end up being the unlucky leader as the ship of state plunges over the fiscal cliff. If Obama makes an expected turn to the left....which just means replacing supply side economists with Keynsian liberals of the Paul Krugman variety, they will call for trillions in more FDR type job creation programs, but this time the fundamentals underlying the U.S. economy are radically different than the 1930's, and those debts will never be payed back. I should add, that the reason I see any more stimulus spending as an increase in overall debt load, is because there doesn't seem to be the will or the means to check the growing expansion of the U.S. military budgets.

If there is room to grow the economy...even modestly, over the next four years, Obama may have a chance to be the new FDR. But, if the Chinese and others will not or cannot buy more U.S. debt, then he will be the new Frederich von Schleicher -- the last German chancellor of the Weimar Republic before Hitler assumed control of the government. And yes, the Republicans do have a few people waiting in the wings who would turn into outright fascist leaders if provided such an opportunity!

Edited November 11, 2012 by WIP

[punked]

Not in the face of the current world reality. You should really stick to issues that you know about....although I'm not sure which issues those are.

Zing! So true no one can fix anything until the world starts spending again and demand kicks in. Now we can do it the way he did before the great depression and ride out what could be a 5-10 year cycle until Business has to retool or die thus they go out and buy big things putting people back to work and starting the economic engine again like Shady would like. Or governments can take up the slack over the next year spend money start that engine sooner so that we don't lose 10 years like I want. Either way we will get the same result, the only difference is we lose 10 years for production and people all over the world suffer for those years.

[punked]

Yes only the US has undocumented workers...

"Apples to apples"... You always give me a good laugh.

If you think Canada has 5% of its population as undocumented then you really don't understand the numbers or demographic differences between the two countries. Which is quite obvious whenever you post.

I'll wait for your citation on the Canadian numbers but I wont hold my breath.

[cybercoma]

Maybe you and cyber should get together and get your realities and stories straight.

It was a sarcastic quip aimed at the people who blame Obama for the economy, but then defend Harper by saying the economy is out of his control.

At least Smallc is consistent. He says the economy is out of Harper's control, but he also holds that same position for Obama. Some of the "conservatives" on this forum could learn a lot about ideological consistency here, rather than being flip-flopping cheerleaders, trotting out the talking points du jour.