Mighty AC Posted November 14, 2012 Report Posted November 14, 2012 Look, what's so difficult in identifying one's self as an atheist if he/she is certain about his/her stance? It must've been explained before....can you please explain that to me again. It's not difficult. I am an Atheist, but I will not claim to know the unknowable. It's dishonest. I am 100% certain that there is not sufficient evidence for me to believe in the existence of gods, ghosts, unicorns or Big Foot. Quote "Our lives begin to end the day we stay silent about the things that matter." - Martin Luther King Jr"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities" - Voltaire
The_Squid Posted November 14, 2012 Report Posted November 14, 2012 Especially God. I mean, wtf was he thinking when he created things like rust and smallpox? Rust is the work of Satan.... that much is obvious!! Quote
Sleipnir Posted November 14, 2012 Report Posted November 14, 2012 (edited) There many different kinds of atheism which is equivalent to many shades of blue. But at the end of the day, no matter shade of blue you're arguing for, they're all blue. Edited November 14, 2012 by Sleipnir Quote "All you need in this life is ignorance and confidence; then success is sure." - Mark Twain
BubberMiley Posted November 14, 2012 Report Posted November 14, 2012 This post is hidden because you have chosen to ignore posts by BubberMiley. View it anyway? Quote "I think it's fun watching the waldick get all excited/knickers in a knot over something." -scribblet
Sleipnir Posted November 15, 2012 Report Posted November 15, 2012 (edited) This post is hidden because you have chosen to ignore posts by BubberMiley. View it anyway? Do I really have him on ignore or is he faking it? I don't remember putting anyone on ignore. Edited November 15, 2012 by Sleipnir Quote "All you need in this life is ignorance and confidence; then success is sure." - Mark Twain
wyly Posted November 15, 2012 Report Posted November 15, 2012 Do I really have him on ignore or is he faking it? I don't remember putting anyone on ignore. had me wondering too, I don't recall puuting bubber on ignore...and by the way, sleipnir why does your horsie have 6 legs? Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
Guest Posted November 15, 2012 Report Posted November 15, 2012 If he was really on ignore, wouldn't the "View it anyway' be an actual link? Quote
Sleipnir Posted November 15, 2012 Report Posted November 15, 2012 and by the way, sleipnir why does your horsie have 6 legs? Its actually an 8-legged horse named Sleipnir (also known as 'Slippy' or 'the Slipper'). He's Odin's steed, son of Loki and Svaðilfari. If he was really on ignore, wouldn't the "View it anyway' be an actual link? Yeah I was thinking about that after inquiring about it. Quote "All you need in this life is ignorance and confidence; then success is sure." - Mark Twain
cybercoma Posted November 15, 2012 Report Posted November 15, 2012 Well, what you definitely don't understand is that contrary to your response, the term does seem to be important to some of the people here who had to go at great lengths to explain their position! IN FACT, that's what I'm saying!The term is not as important as getting through to you to understand the concepts correctly. Quote
cybercoma Posted November 15, 2012 Report Posted November 15, 2012 Gnostics atheists are the true atheists Who are you to define what a true atheist is? Do I tell you who the true Christians are? Quote
Sleipnir Posted November 15, 2012 Report Posted November 15, 2012 Especially God. I mean, wtf was he thinking when he created things like rust and smallpox? Smallpox for population control which failed, idk about rust. Quote "All you need in this life is ignorance and confidence; then success is sure." - Mark Twain
betsy Posted November 15, 2012 Author Report Posted November 15, 2012 (edited) You can create your own meanings if you wish, but by doing so it just make discussion more difficult. That's why the labels themselves are no longer effective. Instead we all have to explain our position. In your definition you've merged belief and knowledge claims into one term. I assume you do this for both the term theist as well as atheist; which, means you've cut off 2 potential positions. The agnostic atheist already discussed and the agnostic theist; which, would be one who believes in deities, but will not claim to know for sure they exist. Well the agnostic-theist is still a well-rounded theist - since whether he knows for sure or not, he still believes there is a God! That's the whole point, isn't it? BELIEF! So if Dawkins concocted and popularized this new "definition" of an atheist, plus with his sudden proclamation that he isn't sure there is no God - then you bet he's trying to cover his own butt! He doesn't want to come out of the closet to declare he's become an agnostic! OR....he wants to have something to fall back on when he is debating with Creationists. Whatever it is - it seems so very self-serving. If you are an atheist, you are an atheist. Period. You don't say "I'm an atheist BUT.....," or "I'm an atheist....I think." Edited November 15, 2012 by betsy Quote
betsy Posted November 15, 2012 Author Report Posted November 15, 2012 (edited) It's not difficult. I am an Atheist, but I will not claim to know the unknowable. It's dishonest. I am 100% certain that there is not sufficient evidence for me to believe in the existence of gods, ghosts, unicorns or Big Foot. Why do you need to claim anything about knowing or unknowing? You say you're 100% certain....then be confident about it! You just believe that there is no God. Like I said, you know ! It's your belief! Like I KNOW there is a God even if there is no proof at all. If you are doubting (the knowing-unknowing condition you give)....there is no shame in admitting in changing position to agnostic. I guess Dawkins couldn't do that considering his prominent reputation, and everything else that's riding in his atheistic stance. Unless you've something to lose like dawkins, there is no reason why you couldn't change your position. Edited November 15, 2012 by betsy Quote
betsy Posted November 15, 2012 Author Report Posted November 15, 2012 agnostic athiest? more like chicken athiest...I'm absolutely fine defining myself as a 100% athiest i don't feel the need to be pc agnostic athiest... Yes. The very fact that now I even have to specify "True Atheist" - to refer to atheists like you - from these new brand of atheists, which seems to suggest un-certainty on their stance, if they have to include the term, agnostic in their identity, shows that there is indeed a difference between you and them. Quote
betsy Posted November 15, 2012 Author Report Posted November 15, 2012 The term is not as important as getting through to you to understand the concepts correctly. Oh for crying out loud....if it's not so important to you guys, we wouldn't be splitting hairs about your atheistic identity. You'd be happy and confident to be called, atheist. There'll be no ifs, or, and BUT....and I think....about it. Quote
cybercoma Posted November 15, 2012 Report Posted November 15, 2012 Oh for crying out loud....if it's not so important to you guys, we wouldn't be splitting hairs about your atheistic identity. You'd be happy and confident to be called, atheist. There'll be no ifs, or, and BUT....and I think....about it. I am perfectly fine with being called an atheist. What I'm not perfectly fine with is you calling me an atheist, then using some definition for atheist that doesn't accurately describe my position. Quote
Mighty AC Posted November 15, 2012 Report Posted November 15, 2012 Oh for crying out loud....if it's not so important to you guys, we wouldn't be splitting hairs about your atheistic identity. Betsy, it seems that trying to force people into making faith claims is more important to you. You have to be arrogant or ignorant to claim to know something you do not or cannot. I am an atheist but I will not claim to know for sure that gods do not exist. Even if the possibility of existence is extremely remote. Do you claim to know for sure that unicorns do not exist? Quote "Our lives begin to end the day we stay silent about the things that matter." - Martin Luther King Jr"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities" - Voltaire
Sleipnir Posted November 15, 2012 Report Posted November 15, 2012 I think people here are mixing up the term 'belief' with different meanings... Quote "All you need in this life is ignorance and confidence; then success is sure." - Mark Twain
betsy Posted November 16, 2012 Author Report Posted November 16, 2012 I am perfectly fine with being called an atheist. What I'm not perfectly fine with is you calling me an atheist, then using some definition for atheist that doesn't accurately describe my position. Do you believe Gods exist? Quote
betsy Posted November 16, 2012 Author Report Posted November 16, 2012 Betsy, it seems that trying to force people into making faith claims is more important to you. You have to be arrogant or ignorant to claim to know something you do not or cannot. I am an atheist but I will not claim to know for sure that gods do not exist. Even if the possibility of existence is extremely remote. Do you claim to know for sure that unicorns do not exist? But why do you have the need to explain yourselves that you don't know for sure that gods do not exist? Wyly and Squid have no problems stating flatly they're atheists! No explanations needed! Wyly and Squid are stating they are sure and confident - you, on the other hand suggests you are not. Quote
betsy Posted November 16, 2012 Author Report Posted November 16, 2012 (edited) Betsy, it seems that trying to force people into making faith claims is more important to you. You have to be arrogant or ignorant to claim to know something you do not or cannot. I am an atheist but I will not claim to know for sure that gods do not exist. Even if the possibility of existence is extremely remote. Do you claim to know for sure that unicorns do not exist? Are unicorns supernatural things? IF you're referring to unicorns in a supernatural way....I'd say no, they don't exist. Could it not be possible a horse with one horn had existed, and became extinct? How do you know the Rhino didn't evolve from a unicorn....since you believe in evolution? Perhaps the unicorn decided to make itself look uglier and meaner, and heavier - voila! A Rhino! Edited November 16, 2012 by betsy Quote
cybercoma Posted November 16, 2012 Report Posted November 16, 2012 Do you believe Gods exist? No. Quote
Mighty AC Posted November 16, 2012 Report Posted November 16, 2012 But why do you have the need to explain yourselves that you don't know for sure that gods do not exist? You incorrectly associate the term atheist with the making of faith claims. That is why there is need for explanation. Am I an atheist? Yes. Am I a gnostic? No. I can't make it any clearer for you Betsy. Quote "Our lives begin to end the day we stay silent about the things that matter." - Martin Luther King Jr"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities" - Voltaire
GostHacked Posted November 16, 2012 Report Posted November 16, 2012 This post is hidden because you have chosen to ignore posts by BubberMiley. View it anyway? Bravo! Quote
GostHacked Posted November 16, 2012 Report Posted November 16, 2012 Are unicorns supernatural things? IF you're referring to unicorns in a supernatural way....I'd say no, they don't exist. Could it not be possible a horse with one horn had existed, and became extinct? How do you know the Rhino didn't evolve from a unicorn....since you believe in evolution? Perhaps the unicorn decided to make itself look uglier and meaner, and heavier - voila! A Rhino! Well, since you have made your distaste for evolution quite known, I find it odd you would use the evolution argument here. Quote
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