betsy Posted October 28, 2012 Report Share Posted October 28, 2012 Acting Chief Devon Clunis calls on people to pray for safer city CBC News Posted: Oct 23, 2012 6:24 AM CT Winnipeg's new police chief is advocating the use of prayer to help address the city's crime problem. Acting police Chief Devon Clunis says he would like Winnipeggers of all faiths to pray for a better and safer city, as he believes people often find inspiration in prayer to take action and help one another. "I think if we have a community that's consistently praying for one another, hopefully we'll now see the physical reduction of crime and violence in our city," Clunis, who is a Christian, told CBC News in an interview. "If you're praying for your neighbour, I don't think you'll be out there hating your neighbour or fighting with your neighbour," he added. "If you are praying for your neighbour, you'll say, 'OK, I'm praying, but how can I practically do something to impact my neighbour's well-being?'" Clunis, 48, was named as Winnipeg's 17th chief of police earlier this month, succeeding Keith McCaskill. He will officially take over the position later this year. A 25-year veteran of the Winnipeg Police Service, Clunis has also served as a chaplain with the force. "My faith is foundational to everything that I do," he said. http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/story/2012/10/22/mb-winnipeg-police-chief-prayer-clunis.html Do you find anything wrong with this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BubberMiley Posted October 28, 2012 Report Share Posted October 28, 2012 No, do you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msj Posted October 28, 2012 Report Share Posted October 28, 2012 (edited) Do you find anything wrong with this? I would prefer tax dollars to be spent on taking real action like doing real police work. Sure, a call out for prayer, in and of itself, isn't going to hurt. But of course it isn't going to hurt - because asking people to pray is essentially doing nothing. So, no, as long as this is just the lip service that it appears to be I can live with it. Look at the hilarious comments here for some great takes on this: New Police Chief Thinks Prayer Will Lower Crime Rates Edited October 28, 2012 by msj Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 28, 2012 Report Share Posted October 28, 2012 If any public servant thinks that prayer is going to help with his work he needs to retire and the public needs to find another servant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest American Woman Posted October 28, 2012 Report Share Posted October 28, 2012 If any public servant thinks that prayer is going to help with his work he needs to retire and the public needs to find another servant. So you think only atheists should serve the public? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 28, 2012 Report Share Posted October 28, 2012 No, I think that public servants should serve the public without recourse to their very private religious beliefs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 28, 2012 Report Share Posted October 28, 2012 Imagine my boss tomorrow if I tell her that I'm going to pray the work gets done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest American Woman Posted October 28, 2012 Report Share Posted October 28, 2012 Imagine my boss tomorrow if I tell her that I'm going to pray the work gets done. What would be the problem with that? And what would change if you kept it to yourself and prayed silently, without telling her that you're going to pray about it? Anyone who is religious and believes that prayer helps, is going to pray. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 28, 2012 Report Share Posted October 28, 2012 Yes, but it isn't actually going to help, so it is wrong of a Police Chief to imply that it will. My boss would be okay with me praying on my breaks as long as I did the work myself during my regular hours. I have no problem with anyone, up to and including the PM, praying on their own time as long as they do the job the taxpayers are paying them to do with their own efforts. Religion has no place in government, Federal, Provincial, Municipal, whatever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 28, 2012 Report Share Posted October 28, 2012 (edited) Maybe in gambling... Edited October 28, 2012 by bcsapper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest American Woman Posted October 28, 2012 Report Share Posted October 28, 2012 Yes, but it isn't actually going to help, so it is wrong of a Police Chief to imply that it will. That's your opinion that it won't help. Now you're going to say someone is "wrong" for having religious beliefs? My boss would be okay with me praying on my breaks as long as I did the work myself during my regular hours. I have no problem with anyone, up to and including the PM, praying on their own time as long as they do the job the taxpayers are paying them to do with their own efforts. Fine. And what makes you believe that this police chief is doing any differently? Religion has no place in government, Federal, Provincial, Municipal, whatever. A person in those positions should be just as free to speak of their beliefs as the next person. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 28, 2012 Report Share Posted October 28, 2012 (edited) That's your opinion that it won't help. Now you're going to say someone is "wrong" for having religious beliefs? How do you know what I'm going to say? Prayer? If he was a shoe salesman with his own store, he could rely on such nonsense if he wants. (for it is nonsense. That is my belief) He is paid by the public to look after them, and he has no right to advocate prayer as a means of doing so. Fine. And what makes you believe that this police chief is doing any differently? The Police Chief did. A person in those positions should be just as free to speak of their beliefs as the next person. He didn't speak of his beliefs. He asked those he has been charged with protecting to help him do his job by praying. Very publicly did he do this. As there is no God, it's not going to work. Many of those who pay his wages know this, and all of those who would be criminals know this. He can believe what he wants on his own time/dime. When he's at work, he should do the job for which he is paid. Edited October 28, 2012 by bcsapper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest American Woman Posted October 28, 2012 Report Share Posted October 28, 2012 He didn't speak of his beliefs. He asked those he has been charged with protecting to help him do his job by praying. Very publicly did he do this. Where did he ask anyone to "help him do his job" by praying? As there is no God, it's not going to work. Many of those who pay his wages know this, and all of those who would be criminals know this. That's your opinion. He can believe what he wants on his own time/dime. When he's at work, he should do the job for which he is paid. Do you have any proof whatsoever that he isn't doing just that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 28, 2012 Report Share Posted October 28, 2012 (edited) Where did he ask anyone to "help him do his job" by praying? That's what I took from this: Acting police Chief Devon Clunis says he would like Winnipeggers of all faiths to pray for a better and safer city, as he believes people often find inspiration in prayer to take action and help one another. "I think if we have a community that's consistently praying for one another, hopefully we'll now see the physical reduction of crime and violence in our city," Clunis, who is a Christian, told CBC News in an interview. That's your opinion. It's all opinion when religion is discussed. Do you have any proof whatsoever that he isn't doing just that? No, none whatsoever. Edited October 28, 2012 by bcsapper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleipnir Posted October 28, 2012 Report Share Posted October 28, 2012 Is there a reason why you made a new thread when a thread like this already existed for some time? http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index.php?showtopic=21746 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimmy Posted October 29, 2012 Report Share Posted October 29, 2012 I'm not a fan of the idea of public officials advocating religion as a cure for social ills. To suggest that more religion is part of the solution seems to imply that not enough religion is part of the problem, and I don't care for the implication, obviously. Aside from being arguably offensive, it's also highly dubious. I'm not aware of any information correlating atheism with crime; I believe that statistics about US prison populations show the exact opposite to be true, in fact. As well, I believe that like other Canadian prairie cities, Winnipeg's largest major-crime problem is with native gangs... and there's an argument to be made that the legacy of church people is a factor in the issues facing native Canadians even today. That said, we unchurched heathens need to be careful choosing our battles, and this isn't one worth fighting about. Officer Clevis probably thought he was being inclusive by noting that he was calling upon people of all religions, but he was not inclusive enough. Regardless, I think this is a well-intentioned guy who just doesn't get it, as opposed to a Newt Gingrich type going out and openly attacking the non-religious. -k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted October 30, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2012 He is not saying that only prayers will work. He is not saying that only atheists commit crimes. Not all crimes are premeditated. Looking at it from a different angle, urging people to pray - I guess he's addressing those with religious beliefs - reminds these people of their faith, and by doing so....it may help by having those who believe in a God to take pause. It can help for cooler heads to prevail. So of course, it will help lower the crime rate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted October 30, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2012 He is not saying that only prayers will work. He is not saying that only atheists commit crimes. Not all crimes are premeditated. Looking at it from a different angle, urging people to pray - I guess he's addressing those with religious beliefs - reminds these people of their faith, and by doing so....it may help by having those who believe in a God to take pause. It can help for cooler heads to prevail. So of course, it will help lower the crime rate. Furthermore, it doesn't cost the taxpayers anything! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted October 30, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2012 Anyway, he was originally interviewed by a Christian newspaper - therefore he was talking to his fellow-Christians. His statement was picked up by some media - of course - thus, it became an issue! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 30, 2012 Report Share Posted October 30, 2012 Well, I forgive him! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guyser Posted October 30, 2012 Report Share Posted October 30, 2012 So of course, it will help lower the crime rate. Do come back and let us know how that went will ya? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted October 30, 2012 Report Share Posted October 30, 2012 Maybe Winnipeg cops should be stripped of their firearms and told to pray they don't get shot on duty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest American Woman Posted October 30, 2012 Report Share Posted October 30, 2012 Maybe Winnipeg cops should be stripped of their firearms and told to pray they don't get shot on duty. Maybe you should try making a response that's relevant to anything that's been said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted October 30, 2012 Report Share Posted October 30, 2012 Cops use guns to combat crime. The police chief says people should pray to combat crime. Take the cops' guns away and have them pray instead. That's relevant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest American Woman Posted October 30, 2012 Report Share Posted October 30, 2012 Cops use guns to combat crime. The police chief says people should pray to combat crime. Take the cops' guns away and have them pray instead. That's relevant. It's not relevant to anything that he's said. So are you saying that's what they should do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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