jacee Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 (edited) http://www.canadianbusiness.com/article/103209--ethical-investors-say-oilsands-industry-must-cut-environmental-risks An international group of ethical funds with investments in Alberta's oilsands is concerned the industry's environmental performance could be creating financial risk. "We recognize the economic significance of the resource," the group says in a statement to be released Monday. "But (we) are concerned that the current approach to development, particularly the management of the environmental and social impacts, threatens the long-term viability of the oilsands as an investment." The statement is signed by 49 funds. Some are controlled by labour and church groups, such as the United Church of Canada and the Canadian Labour Congress. There are also public-sector pension funds from both sides of the border and private funds from Canada, the U.S. and Europe. Together, they control about $2 trillion, some of which is invested in companies active in the oilsands. Their statement was co-ordinated and released by the Boston-based group Ceres, which works to advance environmental causes through the financial sector. The funds say the oilsands industry is not reducing its greenhouse gas emissions or its water use fast enough. They're concerned about the lack of information on land reclamation liabilities and worry about lawsuits from aboriginal groups. "We're certainly not claiming that the industry is ignoring these issues," said Andrew Logan of Ceres. "What we're saying is that we need to dramatically speed up the pace of innovation." Ceres considers greenhouse gas emissions a risk because the industry's rosy forecasts of U.S. export growth don't account for the potential impact of low-carbon fuel standards, now under consideration or implemented in 14 U.S. states. Ceres estimated in 2010 that if such regulations eventually cover half of the U.S. market, the export potential for oilsands crude would be reduced by 25 per cent. If such regulations were implemented federally, markets for the oilsands fuel could shrink by a third. "Most companies don't really have targets around reducing their greenhouse gas emissions or their water use," Logan said. "What we're looking for is specifics." Dan Wicklum of Canada's Oil Sands Innovation Alliance said his recently formed group of 12 major oilsands producers is starting to do just that. "Companies certainly want to push themselves," he said. "We're just developing the process that we would use to engage and set our goals ... The companies have committed to set a goal." The funds also say industry hasn't released enough information about how much it will cost to clean up after itself. "Disclosure by oilsands companies of reclamation costs has been poor," says the statement. All in all, I'm calling this a positive sign. I'll bet there isn't one retired Canadian whose CPP or other pension doesn't include oil sands stock. We lefty 'investors' do have a say, and the money power to influence development of better processes and technology. I guess the oil barons can't just diss and dismiss us 'lefties' afterall! I love to see the collective power of ordinary people in action. Edited October 23, 2012 by jacee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fletch 27 Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 United Church of Canada and the Canadian Labour Congress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Bill Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 We lefty 'investors' do have a say, and the money power to influence development of better processes and technology. I guess the oil barons can't just diss and dismiss us 'lefties' afterall! I love to see the collective power of ordinary people in action. I can understand how someone who takes a passionate stand on environmental issues would let that influence their investment strategy. What I DON'T understand is how they blissfully ignore ignore anything to do with human rights! At least women can get a job as a driver on an oilsands prpject. Hell, in Alberta they also can go to school! I don't need to list all the terrible things done in many Islamic countries. They are well documented in the MSM. So far I have never heard of ANY investment group here in the West that gave a damn! Yet now we see a move against the oilsands. You don't need a tinfoil hat to be suspicious here. To me, it just doesn't make sense! I'm starting to wonder if such lefty investment groups are secretly funded by the Saudis or someone similar. I've been reading about atrocities in many Islamic governed countries for decades now and have never been comfortable with the idea of my oil coming from such sources. Am I the only one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 At least women can get a job as a driver on an oilsands prpject. Exactly. And make a 6 figure salary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 I can understand how someone who takes a passionate stand on environmental issues would let that influence their investment strategy. What I DON'T understand is how they blissfully ignore ignore anything to do with human rights! At least women can get a job as a driver on an oilsands prpject. Hell, in Alberta they also can go to school! I don't need to list all the terrible things done in many Islamic countries. They are well documented in the MSM. So far I have never heard of ANY investment group here in the West that gave a damn! Yet now we see a move against the oilsands. You don't need a tinfoil hat to be suspicious here. To me, it just doesn't make sense! I'm starting to wonder if such lefty investment groups are secretly funded by the Saudis or someone similar. I've been reading about atrocities in many Islamic governed countries for decades now and have never been comfortable with the idea of my oil coming from such sources. Am I the only one? Because clearly the only options are supporting the Saudis or raping the earth here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 Because clearly the only options are supporting the Saudis or raping the earth here. And clearly the oil sands project is "raping" the earth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 And clearly the oil sands project is "raping" the earth. Well, they are. But that's not the point I'm making. The funds say the oilsands industry is not reducing its greenhouse gas emissions or its water use fast enough. They're concerned about the lack of information on land reclamation liabilities and worry about lawsuits from aboriginal groups. There's specific concerns being outlined. The idea presented by Wild Bill that you can't ask the oil sands to mitigate the environmental impact because to do so is to support terrorism (basically) is a false choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 Well, they are. But that's not the point I'm making. So are those the only options? Not using the oil sands, or raping the earth? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 So are those the only options? Not using the oil sands, or raping the earth? Who said that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 Who said that? You did, in your false choice about raping the earth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kraychik Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 And clearly the oil sands project is "raping" the earth. You gotta love it, idiotic semantics. I got more for you. It's the way OWS drug addicts speak. "You assassinated my pride" "Justice was assaulted" "My self-esteem was urinated upon" "They defecated on my history" ...and of course, "Raping of the earth". What else do you expect from a forty-something manchild who still plays video games? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kraychik Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 You did, in your false choice about raping the earth. This is what we're up against, people who literally want to shut down the oil industry. Some can be shown the light, if they have the curiosity and honesty, but others are committed to their leftist narratives and faux environmentalism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 You did, in your false choice about raping the earth. You should really learn to read. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 What else do you expect from a forty-something manchild who still plays video games? It's like you want me to start posting links to your long internet slime trail showing your interest in bad Israeli pop idols and Magic: The Gathering. Maturity! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kraychik Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 I can understand how someone who takes a passionate stand on environmental issues would let that influence their investment strategy. What I DON'T understand is how they blissfully ignore ignore anything to do with human rights! At least women can get a job as a driver on an oilsands prpject. Hell, in Alberta they also can go to school! I don't need to list all the terrible things done in many Islamic countries. They are well documented in the MSM. So far I have never heard of ANY investment group here in the West that gave a damn! Yet now we see a move against the oilsands. You don't need a tinfoil hat to be suspicious here. To me, it just doesn't make sense! I'm starting to wonder if such lefty investment groups are secretly funded by the Saudis or someone similar. I've been reading about atrocities in many Islamic governed countries for decades now and have never been comfortable with the idea of my oil coming from such sources. Am I the only one? My advice: don't accept the false premise that exploitation of the oil sands wreaks environmental havoc. It isn't true, and it's just a false meme through which faux environmentalists like David Suzuki enrich themselves by producing dishonest CBC "documentaries", then parroted by communists like jacee and insufferable contrarians like BlackDog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 My advice: don't accept the false premise that exploitation of the oil sands wreaks environmental havoc. It isn't true, and it's just a false meme through which faux environmentalists like David Suzuki enrich themselves by producing dishonest CBC "documentaries", then parroted by communists like jacee and insufferable contrarians like BlackDog. You're really wielding your +10 Hammer of Bloviating today, Bob. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 I've been reading about atrocities in many Islamic governed countries for decades now and have never been comfortable with the idea of my oil coming from such sources. I call bullshit on you and your ilk. Your concern for human rights decades ago was no more apparent than your concern for the environment is today and by the time your concern for the environment catches up to growing concerns about labour standards and decent wages (AGAIN I might add) we'll all be working for developing world wages in a denuded poisoned wasteland for billionaires who orbit the Earth in palatial arcologies. Am I the only one? No, I thought I said your ilk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fletch 27 Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 I call bullshit on you and your ilk. Your concern for human rights decades ago was no more apparent than your concern for the environment is today and by the time your concern for the environment catches up to growing concerns about labour standards and decent wages (AGAIN I might add) we'll all be working for developing world wages in a denuded poisoned wasteland for billionaires who orbit the Earth in palatial arcologies. No, I thought I said your ilk. And there is the "left". Orbit the earth? OoooooK then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacee Posted October 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 Omigoodness that was a bunch of Point being ... THESE ARE MAJOR INVESTORS. Can't be dissed and dismissed. Supporters of terrorism ... So ... Alberta oilsands don't want our money? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 (edited) Hey, don't take it from me go ask Bonam. I'm pretty sure he'll nod and tell you that is in fact what the future will look like, he's working for the people who's descendents will one day ascend to...Stratos. Notwithstanding the discovery or creation of some truly miraculous technology, like Star Trek replicators, the Troglodytes below will have little left to live for but the hatred they have for those who've been propelled above. I think the ethical investors, some might say mythical investors mentioned in the OP are realizing this in their call to speed up innovation. Good luck with that. Maybe the decent thing for the Trogs to do is to put their noses to the same grindstone and realize a species only has one chance to convert it's resources and heritage in the effort to ensure our species doesn't face the same fate of most through extinction. Escaping our gravity well and spreading throughout space appears to be the only thing that might guarantee that. Good luck selling everyone on the idea that it's only right and proper that the rich and powerful be the blessed one's. Edited October 23, 2012 by eyeball Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Bill Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 Hey, don't take it from me go ask Bonam. I'm pretty sure he'll nod and tell you that is in fact what the future will look like, he's working for the people who's descendents will one day ascend to...Stratos. Notwithstanding the discovery or creation of some truly miraculous technology, like Star Trek replicators, the Troglodytes below will have little left to live for but the hatred they have for those who've been propelled above. I think the ethical investors, some might say mythical investors mentioned in the OP are realizing this in their call to speed up innovation. Good luck with that. Maybe the decent thing for the Trogs to do is to put their noses to the same grindstone and realize a species only has one chance to convert it's resources and heritage in the effort to ensure our species doesn't face the same fate of most through extinction. Escaping our gravity well and spreading throughout space appears to be the only thing that might guarantee that. Good luck selling everyone on the idea that it's only right and proper that the rich and powerful be the blessed one's. Ah eyeball, how little you understand the master plan! Once the arcologies are built, we can finally leave all those wingnuts who hold us back and live a life of luxury and fulfillment among the stars! The Trogs can remain behind. After all, surely after a few centuries without us they will have totally returned the Earth to a pristine state! They will no doubt achieve a state where no one has to work hard, everyone is comfortable and sciences like medicine will have been developed to the point where all disease has been wiped out. The Trogs should be deliriously happy! After all, they constantly complain that all the problems of the Earth are caused by people like Bonam! So the people like Bonam will be gone! Utopia achieved! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 (edited) Ah eyeball, how little you understand the master plan! Once the arcologies are built, we can finally leave all those wingnuts who hold us back and live a life of luxury and fulfillment among the stars! The Trogs can remain behind. After all, surely after a few centuries without us they will have totally returned the Earth to a pristine state! They will no doubt achieve a state where no one has to work hard, everyone is comfortable and sciences like medicine will have been developed to the point where all disease has been wiped out. The Trogs should be deliriously happy! After all, they constantly complain that all the problems of the Earth are caused by people like Bonam! So the people like Bonam will be gone! Utopia achieved! Dystopia you mean. You can run but never hide from human nature, the forces at work within human societies will simply move into space with us/them/whoever. Point being, for better or worse, THIS planet remains our best shot, and we only get one. To keep this thread rooted in that reality I'd like to emphasize the ethical fund manager's most important point. "But (we) are concerned that the current approach to development, particularly the management of the environmental and social impacts, threatens the long-term viability of the oilsands as an investment." Read between the lines. It clearly says our current approach to development is a threat...pretty much to everything. Edited October 23, 2012 by eyeball Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Bill Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 Dystopia you mean. You can run but never hide from human nature, the forces at work within human societies will simply move into space with us/them/whoever. Point being, for better or worse, THIS planet remains our best shot, and we only get one. To keep this thread rooted in that reality I'd like to emphasize the ethical fund manager's most important point. Read between the lines. It clearly says our current approach to development is a threat...pretty much to everything. Well, we must agree to disagree. I don't believe that the Alberta oilsands are as detrimental to the planet as the critics say. I also consider many Islamist states to be barbaric murderers. So my choice is quite clear. My point however, was that the people who are criticizing the oilsands have NEVER, to my knowledge, taken a similar stand against "murderous barbarians". As I said, that is what I find questionable about their values. Obviously, they couldn't give a crap! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 I also consider many Islamist states to be barbaric murderers. So my choice is quite clear. No it's not because of the way you always vote for parties that have only shown a sudden conversion to the thought of ethical oil because it's a cute slogan. My point however, was that the people who are criticizing the oilsands have NEVER, to my knowledge, taken a similar stand against "murderous barbarians". As I said, that is what I find questionable about their values.Obviously, they couldn't give a crap! Bullshit they don't. This one forum alone is filled to the brim with years of condemnations against people like me for criticizing our past economic relationships with the murderous barbarians you're now suddenly concerned about. It's mind-boggling FUBAR how far us lefties and righties have talked so far past ourselves as to be seemingly exchanging roles. Recall I'm the cold-hearted bastard now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Bill Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 (edited) No it's not because of the way you always vote for parties that have only shown a sudden conversion to the thought of ethical oil because it's a cute slogan. Bullshit they don't. This one forum alone is filled to the brim with years of condemnations against people like me for criticizing our past economic relationships with the murderous barbarians you're now suddenly concerned about. It's mind-boggling FUBAR how far us lefties and righties have talked so far past ourselves as to be seemingly exchanging roles. Recall I'm the cold-hearted bastard now. Eyeball, if you keep talking to me like I am some sort of amalgam of every rightie who ever lived I am going to start doing the same to you! How do you know what parties I always vote for? How do you know if sometimes I accepted the package but disagreed with a few of the contents? Be fair! I'm an individual, not your collective scarecrow! As far as "lefties" caring about the human rights atrocities in oil-selling Islamist countries, I am not denying some folks like yourself have condemned such things. I'm just pointing out that the investors groups in question have never been reported boycotting those oil-sources as investments. Only Alberta. Edited October 23, 2012 by Wild Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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