PIK Posted October 18, 2012 Report Posted October 18, 2012 When harper prologued the goverment , the media and alot of people went berserk, but when chretien and dalton do it, not a whimper, what gives??? Quote Toronto, like a roach motel in the middle of a pretty living room.
Fletch 27 Posted October 18, 2012 Report Posted October 18, 2012 Very Simple.... Its the far left leaning media such as the Toronto Star and the CBC... The "left" thrives on propaganda and shuns accountability. The CBC is dominated by the "Creen actors guild"... a union that wants to direct and control the direction of the press relayed to you and Canadians... Quote
Smallc Posted October 18, 2012 Report Posted October 18, 2012 Ummm, he prorogued the Provincial Parliament because he resigned.... Quote
Boges Posted October 18, 2012 Report Posted October 18, 2012 Isn't this more of a Provincial Forum issue? I still contend that Harper doing this in 2008/9 was a necessity. Not so much in 2009/10. The alternative to proroguing in 2008 was another election. Dalton did this to try and save the party because had he stepped down, they'd be leaderless going into a likely election. I would actually prefer the House not be prorogued and just have the opposition parties sign a promise not to bring the government down until a new leader is named. Quote
g_bambino Posted October 18, 2012 Report Posted October 18, 2012 Ummm, he prorogued the Provincial Parliament because he resigned.... He actually hasn't; he remains premier; he only announced that he would be resigning when a new Liberal Party leader was chosen. Further, resignation of the prime minister doesn't require a prorogation or even dissolution of parliament. Quote
Michael Hardner Posted October 18, 2012 Report Posted October 18, 2012 PIK, I'm starting to think that whining about media coverage is moving from a left- to right- wing trait. https://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&gl=ca&tbm=nws&q=prorogue&oq=prorogue&gs_l=news-cc.3..43j43i400.946.4477.0.4656.10.5.1.4.0.0.89.359.5.5.0...0.0...1ac.1.7icqCqIPq5c#hl=en&gl=ca&tbm=nws&sclient=psy-ab&q=mcguinty+prorogue+ontario+legislature&oq=mcguinty+prorogue+ontario+legislature&gs_l=serp.3...5356.6496.2.7194.9.9.0.0.0.1.137.861.5j4.9.0...0.0...1c.1.fibwTNEXzKg&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.r_qf.&fp=87d6c8301b72d96f&bpcl=35440803&biw=1092&bih=514 11,100 results - and a majority of the top 10 links are negative about this including the Liberal Toronto Star. Next ? Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
PIK Posted October 18, 2012 Author Report Posted October 18, 2012 Isn't this more of a Provincial Forum issue? I still contend that Harper doing this in 2008/9 was a necessity. Not so much in 2009/10. The alternative to proroguing in 2008 was another election. Dalton did this to try and save the party because had he stepped down, they'd be leaderless going into a likely election. I would actually prefer the House not be prorogued and just have the opposition parties sign a promise not to bring the government down until a new leader is named. Harper did it to save the country, dalton did it to save his ass. And why do the opp owe the libs anything. Bring them down now and end this, this could drag on for a very long time. The paper shredders will be working overtime. Quote Toronto, like a roach motel in the middle of a pretty living room.
g_bambino Posted October 18, 2012 Report Posted October 18, 2012 The alternative to proroguing in 2008 was another election. That wasn't the only alternative. Otherwise, McGuinty's call for prorogation and the absence of a set date for the return of parliament (other than the one constitutionally set) seems like it's more for the convenience of the Liberal Party than anything else. Quote
Michael Hardner Posted October 18, 2012 Report Posted October 18, 2012 Ontario Premier Dalton McGuinty has no good reason to prorogue legislature http://www.thestar.com/opinion/editorials/article/1272462--ontario-premier-dalton-mcguinty-has-no-good-reason-to-prorogue-legislature Yes, that's the Liberal star in large font so PIK and Fletch can see it without their glasses. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
PIK Posted October 18, 2012 Author Report Posted October 18, 2012 Ontario Premier Dalton McGuinty has no good reason to prorogue legislature http://www.thestar.c...gue-legislature Yes, that's the Liberal star in large font so PIK and Fletch can see it without their glasses. I will give the star some credit, but they had to, they were his biggest cheerleader and even they knew they had to jump ship also to save some credibilty. But to say the overall coverage is the same is a complete lie and you know it. Just look at this board michael, very quiet on it. Lets look back when harper did it. Quote Toronto, like a roach motel in the middle of a pretty living room.
Fletch 27 Posted October 18, 2012 Report Posted October 18, 2012 Michael, You simply do not seem to "understand" what proroguing Government does and allows.......................... Its actually quite simple.... This has now Allowed the Unions (The Teachers and Autoworkers) to now go directly to negotiations as oppoed to Legislation as threatened by Dalton (Vailed threat). They can now avoid what Dalton stated he would do (a Lie) and they will negoiate a far better deal. The proroging was to ENSURE the Union Vote in the next election... Its that simple.... Where is the uproar from Sid Ryan? His comment are VERY favorable to this Proroguing! As is the head of the TEachers union! Almost "gushing"! Sounds like THEY atleast have a very rudimentary understanding of what "proroguing" allows.. Yes, the Star is handling this with Baby gloves... Ontario Premier Dalton McGuinty has no good reason to prorogue legislature http://www.thestar.c...gue-legislature Yes, that's the Liberal star in large font so PIK and Fletch can see it without their glasses. Quote
Smallc Posted October 18, 2012 Report Posted October 18, 2012 He actually hasn't; he remains premier; he only announced that he would be resigning when a new Liberal Party leader was chosen. Well, yes, but it's safe to assume that he wants that to be done before the next sitting. Further, resignation of the prime minister doesn't require a prorogation or even dissolution of parliament. While I realize that, there's little reason to proceed if he has little to do, and is leaving anyway. Quote
g_bambino Posted October 18, 2012 Report Posted October 18, 2012 Michael, You simply do not seem to "understand" what proroguing Government does and allows. The government hasn't been prorogued. The government can't be prorogued. Its actually quite simple.... This has now Allowed the Unions (The Teachers and Autoworkers) to now go directly to negotiations as oppoed to Legislation as threatened by Dalton (Vailed threat). They can now avoid what Dalton stated he would do (a Lie) and they will negoiate a far better deal. The proroging was to ENSURE the Union Vote in the next election... Its that simple.... If talks with continue during the prorogation, whatever is negotiated cannot be enforced until the legislature returns. At that time, the government will still be accountable for its actions, both before and during the prorogation. Quote
g_bambino Posted October 18, 2012 Report Posted October 18, 2012 Well, yes, but it's safe to assume that he wants that to be done before the next sitting...[T]here's little reason to proceed if he has little to do, and is leaving anyway. I don't know of a sitting legislature being prorogued or dissolved so a party leadership race can be run. As I said, a prorogation or dissolution isn't necessary when a premier resigns; the legislature can keep functioning and, in this case, there was still a fair amount of business on the table. Given that a significant part of that business was the power plant issue and the refusal of certain ministers to provide information to parliament about that matter (again, sound familiar?), it seems the prorogation was more about delaying accountability for the convenience of both McGuinty himself and the Liberal Party than anything else. The opposition can still hold the government to account when the legislature reconvenes, but the leadership election will be over and McGuinty will be gone. Quote
Smallc Posted October 18, 2012 Report Posted October 18, 2012 I guess I don't know enough about Ontario politics. I just assumed it was to coincide with the change in leadership. Quote
Fletch 27 Posted October 18, 2012 Report Posted October 18, 2012 (edited) Seems alot of folks here need an education on the workings and impact of proroguing government.... "Canadian Auto Workers president Ken Lewenza, who represents 15,000 public-sector workers in schools and hospitals, sees the advantage of prorogation over legislation. “I think we have got to take advantage of it,” he said. “We have to find a way to get a bargained agreement rather than a legislative one.” Use facts, not conjecture... Speak of the devil, here is a link to Unions comments on the extreme benefits of this. This will ensure a Strong Union Vote for the Liberals... http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/politics/article/1273081--cohn-ontario-unions-might-find-prorogation-works The government hasn't been prorogued. The government can't be prorogued. If talks with continue during the prorogation, whatever is negotiated cannot be enforced until the legislature returns. At that time, the government will still be accountable for its actions, both before and during the prorogation. Edited October 18, 2012 by Fletch 27 Quote
g_bambino Posted October 18, 2012 Report Posted October 18, 2012 I guess I don't know enough about Ontario politics. I just assumed it was to coincide with the change in leadership. Well, it was. It just wasn't necessary. Martin replaced Chretien as prime minister while the federal parliament was prorogued. Whether that was coincidental (i.e. parliamentary business for that session was indeed complete) or deliberate, I don't know. However, Trudeau replaced Pearson while parliament was still in session. I'm not saying a prorogation can't be ordered while a change in cabinet takes place. It just isn't necessary. Nor is a change in cabinet the same as a change in party leadership; one follows the other and doesn't take as long. Which means there could well be other reasons why McGuinty advised the Ontario parliament be prorogued at this time. And, looking at all the surrounding factors, that seems more and more likely. Quote
kraychik Posted October 18, 2012 Report Posted October 18, 2012 Ummm, he prorogued the Provincial Parliament because he resigned.... He could have and should have called an election. Of course, that wouldn't work out well for Liberal Party control of Ontario. Quote
Smallc Posted October 18, 2012 Report Posted October 18, 2012 Seems alot of folks here need an education on the workings and impact of proroguing government.... As Bambino says, you can't prorogue a government. The business of running the government - the executive, continues. Quote
Smallc Posted October 18, 2012 Report Posted October 18, 2012 He could have and should have called an election. Why? Quote
g_bambino Posted October 18, 2012 Report Posted October 18, 2012 I stand corrected on the required approval of the legislature. However, the government will be accountable to the legislature once its recalled. I also wonder how a government can, during a time when the legislature is not sitting and when the premier has made his intentions to resign known, make major policy decisions. Typically, the government defaults to a purely administrative role between parliamentary sessions. proroguing government.... Did you read what I wrote? Quote
g_bambino Posted October 18, 2012 Report Posted October 18, 2012 He could have and should have called an election. He could have. But, there's nothing to say he should have. Quote
Michael Hardner Posted October 18, 2012 Report Posted October 18, 2012 I will give the star some credit, but they had to, they were his biggest cheerleader and even they knew they had to jump ship also to save some credibilty. But to say the overall coverage is the same is a complete lie and you know it. Just look at this board michael, very quiet on it. Lets look back when harper did it. How is this board 'coverage' ? It might be a good idea - and maybe a surprise to you - if you did a poll on this topic. I certainly don't support proroguing parliament in this way. It seems like it will be longer than for Harper's stint too. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
Michael Hardner Posted October 18, 2012 Report Posted October 18, 2012 Michael, You simply do not seem to "understand" what proroguing Government does and allows.......................... What are you talking about ? We haven't even talked about the issue at hand yet. Your post assumes that I'm in favour of proroguing but I'm not - please read what I post and don't make up opinions for me, thanks. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
scribblet Posted October 18, 2012 Report Posted October 18, 2012 (edited) Ummm, he prorogued the Provincial Parliament because he resigned.... His resignation is 'imminent', he did not have to prorogue, he could've appointed a deputy leader. It's a complete escape from responsibility and accountability, when he finally leaves he can say And yes, the media treating this very differently . Not too many screaming about it this time, no facebook pages protesting, no screams of outrage etc. etc. even the media is holding back. Why didn't the LG say no to this one, has GG or LG said NO, ever ? Muted outrage and sure not too upset on twitter http://www2.macleans...ys-resignation/ If Harper's strategic prorogations were not okay, than neither is McGuinty’s, or if Harper’s were an affront to democracy, so is McGuinty’s. Can't have it both ways. Edited October 18, 2012 by scribblet Quote Hey Ho - Ontario Liberals Have to Go - Fight Wynne - save our province
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