Another murder over cultural issue.

[Guest Peeves]

Marriage payments a a cause for murder is incomprehensible but, it continues. Can you understand or explain how and why this goes on...and on....and on?

I simply cannot make any sense of it.

"Kalpana reports: ‘According to the National Crime Records Bureau (NCRB) data, there were 8,391 reported cases of dowry deaths in 2010. Just under double the number of cases registered in 1995 – 4,648 cases. For every dowry death reported, there are dozens that go unreported. Of the 8,391 reported cases in 2010, although 93.2 per cent were charge-sheeted, the conviction rate was a miserable 33.6 per cent. The murderers and their families get away with it. What’s worse, they go scot free and bring back another bride.

Women’s groups fought tooth and nail from the 1970s onwards to get anti-dowry legislation in place to protect brides. Unfortunately, though the campaign, which was at its peak in the 1980s, raised awareness and had women protesting all over the country, dowries, and dowry deaths, have not been eradicated – as the statistics show. Indeed, the figures are even more horrifying considering India claims to have moved out of the feudal ages and into the 21st century.

Why hasn’t it changed? Because even educated people continue to pay up with a smile (albeit forced). It’s the norm, it’s tradition, they say. If you don’t, your daughter will suffer. I’ve had conversations with young about-to-be-married women. ‘You’re not a commodity,’ I’ve said. ‘A chap who wants money to marry you is a scumbag, definitely not worth marrying.’ At the back of my mind I know I risk incurring the wrath of their families when they find out about this conversation. I’m talking radical nonsense, confusing their daughters. Creating trouble. "

How can it be accepted, as it is, by so many supposedly civilized people!!??

http://www.newint.or...eaths-in-india/

A bride burnt every hour: the horror of dowry deaths

http://www.inflexwet...while-sleeping/

In India, a mother and daughter where burned while they slept over a marriage payment dispute. Bride burning and dowry murders are common place when demands are not met by the wife’s family.

Funk Flex

An Indian woman has died and her 13-month-old daughter suffered horrendous burns after her husband and father-in-law set them on fire as they slept, in a dispute over a dowry payment.

The case has shocked India, a country where people have become use to reports of bride burnings and dowry murders – there are more than 8,000 women killed every year because their husbands’ and in-laws’ demands for lavish dowry payments are not met.

What is particularly alarming is the attempted murder of a daughter and grand-daughter whose first birthday they had celebrated just weeks earlier.

[jacee]

On average, more than three women and one man are murdered by their intimate partners in [the US] every day.

http://www.dvrc-or.org/domestic/violence/resources/C61/

What 'culture' is to blame for domestic violence murders in North America?

[Black Dog]

On average, more than three women and one man are murdered by their intimate partners in [the US] every day.

http://www.dvrc-or.o.../resources/C61/

What 'culture' is to blame for domestic violence murders in North America?

I think there's a difference in that the overwhelming majority of domestic crimes in North America aren't carried out with the knowledge, consent and involvement of other family members as is often the case with these types of crimes in India and elsewhere.

[Wild Bill]

On average, more than three women and one man are murdered by their intimate partners in [the US] every day.

http://www.dvrc-or.o.../resources/C61/

What 'culture' is to blame for domestic violence murders in North America?

Jacee, I just can't follow your reasoning here. The issue is murders of brides over dowries. You offer up simple murders. How many of those American murders had to do with dowries?

Apples and oranges! Or is it your point that murder by an abusive husband is identical to murder over a bridal dowry?

Or are you saying that "India has murders. So does America. Therefore, they must both have murders for the same reasons and culture has nothing to do with it."?

India. America. Both names have some of the same letters!

[Guest Peeves]

On average, more than three women and one man are murdered by their intimate partners in [the US] every day.

http://www.dvrc-or.o.../resources/C61/

What 'culture' is to blame for domestic violence murders in North America?

Apparently,

You can't tell an apple from a pear.

[Guest American Woman]

On average, more than three women and one man are murdered by their intimate partners in [the US] every day.

http://www.dvrc-or.o.../resources/C61/

What 'culture' is to blame for domestic violence murders in North America?

I'm really at a loss here. Who do you think you are helping/defending by not recognizing the nature of the murders in the opening post? Do you think a legitimate response to the racially charged KKK hangings in the U.S. would have been to say - "There are murders in Canada, too. What prejudice is to blame for those?"

Edited October 16, 2012 by American Woman

[Michael Hardner]

Sorry to jump in, but can we attribute this to a religion somehow ? I would feel much better about myself ... quite superior.

Yes, I'm being sarcastic.

[Guest American Woman]

Sorry to jump in, but can we attribute this to a religion somehow ? I would feel much better about myself ... quite superior.

Yes, I'm being sarcastic.

Since the title of the thread refers to "culture," are you saying you don't think culture has anything to do with it? It's no different from domestic abuse/murders in the U.S.. - and the KKK hangings were just another murder?

[Michael Hardner]

No, I'll properly associate these things with 'culture' but I won't agree that cultural practices cause this kind of violence more than they channel it. It's not clear to me.

[Bonam]

Sorry to jump in, but can we attribute this to a religion somehow ? I would feel much better about myself ... quite superior.

Dude get off it. You're supposed to be a facilitator, not a troll.

[Michael Hardner]

Dude get off it. You're supposed to be a facilitator, not a troll.

I don't think this is trolling. We're talking about cultural factors again but curiously absent is the call to ban Indian nationals from being able to come to Canada. I realize there are abstractions involved, but surely it's not over your head.

Do you not agree that we're pretty much in the same boat with this topic ?

[cybercoma]

"In the same boat"

Ba Dum Tshhh!

[Bonam]

I don't think this is trolling. We're talking about cultural factors again but curiously absent is the call to ban Indian nationals from being able to come to Canada. I realize there are abstractions involved, but surely it's not over your head.

Do you not agree that we're pretty much in the same boat with this topic ?

You are the one who keeps bringing up religion, apparently just so people can play the "religious discrimination" card, even when the thread has little/nothing to do with it.

And I don't see calls for people that are nationals of any country to be "banned" from coming to Canada, except in the absurd caricatures that those "on the left" paint of much more reasonable suggestions made by other posters who are interested in making sure that our immigration system works for the benefit of Canadians, rather than being based on blind ideology.

Edited October 16, 2012 by Bonam

[Michael Hardner]

You are the one who keeps bringing up religion, apparently just so people can play the "religious discrimination" card, even when the thread has little/nothing to do with it.

The thread is about culture - and religious culture is very much related to this discussion.

And I don't see calls for people that are nationals of any country to be "banned" from coming to Canada, except in the absurd caricatures that those "on the left" paint of much more reasonable suggestions made by other posters who are interested in making sure that our immigration system works for the benefit of Canadians, rather than being based on blind ideology.

I see what you did there. Absurd caricatures of reasonable suggestions is pretty vague. Barring religions from Canada - is that the former or the latter ?

[Guest Peeves]

Sorry to jump in, but can we attribute this to a religion somehow ? I would feel much better about myself ... quite superior.

Yes, I'm being sarcastic.

Your very good at 'sarcastic', you should be sarcastic more often it suits you. Go out on Halloween as sarcastic, you will likely get lots of sour grapes.

[kraychik]

Sorry to jump in, but can we attribute this to a religion somehow ? I would feel much better about myself ... quite superior.

Yes, I'm being sarcastic.

You're doing exactly what you're trying to accuse others of doing. You've created a false premise of religious relativity. You then launch attacks against others of being bigoted when they reject this false premise, and accuse them of self-aggrandisement. What's really happening is that is that it is you who is practising verbal virtuosity by falsely accusing others of bigotry when rejecting your false premise.

The best part? You don't even realise it

[Guest Peeves]

I'm really at a loss here. Who do you think you are helping/defending by not recognizing the nature of the murders in the opening post? Do you think a legitimate response to the racially charged KKK hangings in the U.S. would have been to say - "There are murders in Canada, too. What prejudice is to blame for those?"

I'm really at a loss here. Who do you think you are helping/defending by not recognizing the nature of the murders in the opening post? Do you think a legitimate response to the racially charged KKK hangings in the U.S. would have been to say - "There are murders in Canada, too. What prejudice is to blame for those?"

jacee as others are quite willing to compromise morality judgments if they can minimize any content of some other's post. Actually I look forward to laugh at some posters brain farts when they apparently come across as lacking the ability to sensibly contribute to a discussion. They're the same ones as those I've noticed at gatherings where adults are imbibing whilst conversing and one is standing dully with mouth open a spot of drool on the lower lip and a glazed look. Every group needs to suffer one or two as our obligation to society.

[Guest Peeves]

You're doing exactly what you're trying to accuse others of doing. You've created a false premise of religious relativity. You then launch attacks against others of being bigoted when they reject this false premise, and accuse them of self-aggrandisement. What's really happening is that is that it is you who is practising verbal virtuosity by falsely accusing others of bigotry when rejecting your false premise.

The best part? You don't even realise it

Actually a bit of sarcasm and wit is welcome. We need a bit more hail fellow well met and bonhomie.

attitudes. Regardless the source. I thought it quite worth a brief cachinnation...

[Michael Hardner]

You're doing exactly what you're trying to accuse others of doing. You've created a false premise of religious relativity. You then launch attacks against others of being bigoted when they reject this false premise, and accuse them of self-aggrandisement. What's really happening is that is that it is you who is practising verbal virtuosity by falsely accusing others of bigotry when rejecting your false premise.

There's no attacking happening - we're talking about how to prioritize groups based on various cultural abstractions. This violent to-and-fro... well, that's just in your mind, I guess.

The best part? You don't even realise it

No, the best part is that it's not happening.

[Michael Hardner]

I'm really getting lost in this... isn't this thread about cultural inferiority... on some level...

People bring up religion quite often as being a root cause of deficient cultures, so why am I stepping on toes somehow when I bring that up here ?

[Bonam]

I'm really getting lost in this... isn't this thread about cultural inferiority... on some level...

People bring up religion quite often as being a root cause of deficient cultures, so why am I stepping on toes somehow when I bring that up here ?

Well if religion is so relevant to this topic, care to explain the relationship? How does religion relate to these dowry payments and associated murders? Which religion or religious tradition requires the payment of dowry in this way and encourages murder as a reprisal for failure to pay? Or are you just throwing the word "religion" out there because you don't like the content of certain other threads, which have little relationship to this one?

Edited October 16, 2012 by Bonam

[Michael Hardner]

Well if religion is so relevant to this topic, care to explain the relationship?

Yes, cultural behaviour of immigrants - culture of violence is often brought up as tied to Islam. They don't tie it to the holy book, but the culture.

Which religion or religious tradition requires the payment of dowry in this way and encourages murder as a reprisal for failure to pay? Or are you just throwing the word "religion" out there because you don't like the content of certain other threads, which have little relationship to this one?

No - it's the same idea: we need to keep immigrants out of Canada due to their culture, is the theme here.

The process happens like this: start with a cultural practice that most people would find abhorrent, highlight the fact that it is tied to a foreign culture, and make that culture therefore not compatible with Canadian culture whatever that is.

This whole process begins with a bias and moves forward along the same axis.

[Peter F]

Yes, cultural behaviour of immigrants - culture of violence is often brought up as tied to Islam. They don't tie it to the holy book, but the culture.

No - it's the same idea: we need to keep immigrants out of Canada due to their culture, is the theme here.

The process happens like this: start with a cultural practice that most people would find abhorrent, highlight the fact that it is tied to a foreign culture, and make that culture therefore not compatible with Canadian culture whatever that is.

This whole process begins with a bias and moves forward along the same axis.

I think you're onto something here. The strange thing is that those that don't want anyone of the culture with these abhorent practices would not let those most subject to these abhorent practices immigrate here because they come from a culture that has these abhorent practices.

[Guest]

Yes, cultural behaviour of immigrants - culture of violence is often brought up as tied to Islam. They don't tie it to the holy book, but the culture.

No - it's the same idea: we need to keep immigrants out of Canada due to their culture, is the theme here.

The process happens like this: start with a cultural practice that most people would find abhorrent, highlight the fact that it is tied to a foreign culture, and make that culture therefore not compatible with Canadian culture whatever that is.

This whole process begins with a bias and moves forward along the same axis.

Unless of course, the idea is just to keep the cultural practices out of Canada and no-one gives a toss who gets in from where, just so long as those cultural practices don't come with them.

Which is pretty much how I feel.

[Moonlight Graham]

http://www.inflexwet...while-sleeping/

In India, a mother and daughter where burned while they slept over a marriage payment dispute. Bride burning and dowry murders are common place when demands are not met by the wife’s family.

Funk Flex

Funkmaster Flex used as a legit source = another great milestone here at MLW! lol just yankin' yer chain Peeves.

These facts are gross, people are mind-boggling sometimes. More evidence that humans evolved from savage primates.