Another murder over cultural issue.

[jacee]

Are some here taking the position that Canada or Australia, or America...etc. Should have no criteria for denying entry of foreigners ? Anyone with the ability or means to reach our borders should be automatically accepted?

OR

Is there reasonable expectations that as the host country 'we' set the criteria, conditions, and standards we will accept or deny entry and fix the period necessary before granting citizenship.

http://www.justlanded.com/english/Canada/Canada-Guide/Visas-Permits/Canadian-Citizenship

Yes we do have immigration criteria.

You should read that and learn what they are before starting another xenophobic thread about 'immigrants'.

[Guest]

Like I said ... racist. Your word.

But you can call it what you want ... bigoted, prejudiced, xenophobic, discrimination ... it's all of those too: Discriminating against a whole group/'culture', because of the actions of a (deranged ) few.

No, racist was your word. I said it wasn't racist. You said it was.

To which deranged few are you referring?

There are thousands of honour killings to do with caste, religion, dowries, etc in the middle east and south asia. It's not a deranged few. Liberals desperately want it to be because to admit it's more widespread would be admitting that some cultures are actually worse than others.

For some people. Not all. Usually poor people and women. And gays. Which is kind of a paradox really, because in our culture, they're usually the ones the liberals root for. Go figure. Must be some kind of hierarchy.

Now, if you turn your back on those people because of the race of their oppressors, wouldn't you be the xenophobic, bigoted, prejudiced racist?

Edited October 18, 2012 by bcsapper

[dre]

Point is they shouldn't be allowed in Canada to begin with. If a culture is counter to our own they should automatically be dq'd. Not welcome.

It doesnt matter if their culuture is different than ours, it only matters if they obey the law and contribute.

[jacee]

F

No, racist was your word. I said it wasn't racist. You said it was.

To which deranged few are you referring?

There are thousands of honour killings to do with caste, religion, dowries, etc in the middle east and south asia. It's not a deranged few. Liberals desperately want it to be because to admit it's more widespread would be admitting that some cultures are actually worse than others.

For some people. Not all. Usually poor people and women. And gays. Which is kind of a paradox really, because in our culture, they're usually the ones the liberals root for. Go figure. Must be some kind of hierarchy.

Now, if you turn your back on those people because of the race of their oppressors, wouldn't you be the xenophobic, bigoted, prejudiced racist?

No, racist was your word. I said it wasn't racist. You said it was.

To which deranged few are you referring?

There are thousands of honour killings to do with caste, religion, dowries, etc in the middle east and south asia. It's not a deranged few. Liberals desperately want it to be because to admit it's more widespread would be admitting that some cultures are actually worse than others.

For some people. Not all. Usually poor people and women. And gays. Which is kind of a paradox really, because in our culture, they're usually the ones the liberals root for. Go figure. Must be some kind of hierarchy.

Now, if you turn your back on those people because of the race of their oppressors, wouldn't you be the xenophobic, bigoted, prejudiced racist?

I'm comfortable that our justice system has effectively dealt with any criminal acts.

It isn't exactly rampant here, and certainly doesn't warrant the proliferation of anti-immigrant spam threads.

[Mr.Canada]

It doesnt matter if their culuture is different than ours, it only matters if they obey the law and contribute.

I'd say it matters when they're culture is obsessed with controlling women to the point of demanding they wear a burka or risk getting killed or maimed. That's a pretty serious thing to me I guess not to some.

I want rich, well mannered, healthy immigrants that speak English.

[eyeball]

I also have to wonder what the women who live with fear such deaths would have to say about the comments made here on the board......

No doubt you do.

[Guest American Woman]

Like I said ... racist. Your word.

But you can call it what you want ... bigoted, prejudiced, xenophobic, discrimination ... it's all of those too: Discriminating against a whole group/'culture', because of the actions of a (deranged ) few.

Recognizing the problem for what it is and discriminating against the whole culture because of it are two very different things; denial of the problem, pretending it doesn't exist and working hard to get that erroneous viewpoint out there, is not any better - it is just the opposite side of the coin.

[dre]

I'd say it matters when they're culture is obsessed with controlling women to the point of demanding they wear a burka or risk getting killed or maimed. That's a pretty serious thing to me I guess not to some.

I want rich, well mannered, healthy immigrants that speak English.

Then its YOU that is at odds with Canadian culture and values, and its YOU that would get denied entry if you tried to immigrate here.

[Guest Peeves]

Mr.Canada, on 18 October 2012 - 12:47 AM, said:

I'd say it matters when they're culture is obsessed with controlling women to the point of demanding they wear a burka or risk getting killed or maimed. That's a pretty serious thing to me I guess not to some.

I want rich, well mannered, healthy immigrants that speak English.

Then its YOU that is at odds with Canadian culture and values, and its YOU that would get denied entry if you tried to immigrate here.

Just how would that be at odds with Canadian culture? Certainly those that care that an immigrant might kill or maim over 'their' culture is compatible with Canada's values. I would accept someone that stood against that.

Those that bring their misogynist baggage here should not expect Canada to accept them. That does not apply to the entire group, but ti those that will not abandon extremist and violent behavior against a wife or child.

I know I feel that way.

[jacee]

Mr.Canada, on 18 October 2012 - 12:47 AM, said:

I'd say it matters when they're culture is obsessed with controlling women to the point of demanding they wear a burka or risk getting killed or maimed. That's a pretty serious thing to me I guess not to some.

I want rich, well mannered, healthy immigrants that speak English.

Just how would that be at odds with Canadian culture? Certainly those that care that an immigrant might kill or maim over 'their' culture is compatible with Canada's values. I would accept someone that stood against that.

Those that bring their misogynist baggage here should not expect Canada to accept them. That does not apply to the entire group, but ti those that will not abandon extremist and violent behavior against a wife or child.

I know I feel that way.

Your intent isn't clear ...

You would discriminate against certain 'cultures' in selecting immigrants/refugees ??

Which identifiable groups?

Or would you screen individuals, as I expect is the case now?

What improvements are you suggesting?

Eta ... Or are you agreeing with MrC's selection criteria?

Edited October 18, 2012 by jacee

[Guest Peeves]

Your intent isn't clear ...

You would discriminate against certain 'cultures' in selecting immigrants/refugees ??

Which identifiable groups?

Or would you screen individuals, as I expect is the case now?

What improvements are you suggesting?

Eta ... Or are you agreeing with MrC's selection criteria?

I thought it very clear, I don't want cheaters, frauds, criminals, liars, terrorists, draft dodgers, refugee claimants from other democracies (Israel is a good example), or those that culturally participate in illegal, enterprises like criminal groups within Romani, Somali, Russian, Jamaican or ANY other Tong, Tamil or Mafiosa...get it?

[DogOnPorch]

I thought it very clear, I don't want cheaters, frauds, criminals, liars, terrorists, draft dodgers, refugee claimants from other democracies (Israel is a good example), or those that culturally participate in illegal, enterprises like criminal groups within Romani, Somali, Russian, Jamaican or ANY other Tong, Tamil or Mafiosa...get it?

Sounds good to moi.

[jacee]

I thought it very clear, I don't want cheaters, frauds, criminals, liars, terrorists, draft dodgers, refugee claimants from other democracies (Israel is a good example), or those that culturally participate in illegal, enterprises like criminal groups within Romani, Somali, Russian, Jamaican or ANY other Tong, Tamil or Mafiosa...get it?

Oh that makes perfect sense ... though I'd probably go easier on the war objectors myself.

And how do you propose to screen people for that any better than current processes?

We could do without the criminals that are born here too.

Got a solution for them?

Edited October 21, 2012 by jacee

[Guest Peeves]

Oh that makes perfect sense ... though I'd probably go easier on the war objectors myself.

And how do you propose to screen people for that any better than current processes?

We could do without the criminals that are born here too.

Got a solution for them?

Well, Kenny the Ministry and it's agents are already screening applicants more thoroughly, visiting their 'home' countries and vetting them that got in by fraud and pursuing actions to deport them and criminals.

As for those born here, that is not on point, but, our current government has also passed stronger laws for criminals.

[Guest Peeves]

Reading continuing court case now it sounds like the murderer is a mental case and I suspect he will get off.

http://news.national...ack-trial-told/

A truly sad tale.

The PTSD appeared to stem from a rocket attack on Mr. Khairi’s former home in Afghanistan that killed his mother and brother and injured his first wife so badly she had to have her leg amputated, Dr. Bradford said. The depression first arose in India, he was told, and Mr. Khairi recalled undergoing shock therapy treatment in hospital there.

Stress can aggravate symptoms of both these mental disorders, Dr. Bradford said, and the stress Mr. Khairi endured after coming to Canada in 2003 was mounting — he didn’t like that his children rejected Muslim dress codes, or that his wife encouraged this and had herself become more aware of her rights in the Western world. He couldn’t speak English, couldn’t work and was socially isolated.

I still can't believe that they, the family, were accepted as immigrants. Weird.

[jacee]

Reading continuing court case now it sounds like the murderer is a mental case and I suspect he will get off.

http://news.national...ack-trial-told/

A truly sad tale.

I still can't believe that they, the family, were accepted as immigrants. Weird.

I still think they may have been refugees ... unless he did have quite a bit of cash at one point, cos that'll get anybody in these days.

[Guest Peeves]

It doesnt matter if their culuture is different than ours, it only matters if they obey the law and contribute.

Culture matters. It matters in many ways. The demeaning of women, the restricted rights of women. The dowry issues carried into the West. The caste system still a factor in some cultures that exists in the West. Conflict with dress in driver's licensing, carrying a knife on the person in some cultures. Wearing a turban -mask, if it conflicts with dress codes. Culture as it pertains to the teaching of sex in class at school levels, or about other religions, or working on certain days or giving out bibles, or growing beards in certain employment/services, or demanding no dogs or liquor in your cab. Or at customs where woman may object to any male questions. or an orthodox man may refuse to touch/shake hands with a woman, or where woman are separated from praying men. or where unclean women in their menses are excluded. or where ...shit Culture is a pain in the ass. That's called sodomy..in our culture.

As for illegality.

I'm sure some illegal cultural traditions as FGM continue in the underground practice of some cultures.

[Guest American Woman]

Culture matters. It matters in many ways. The demeaning of women, the restricted rights of women. ...

Just read about another horrific "honor killing;" a 15 year old Pakistani girl was killed by her parents - acid thrown on her - for looking at a boy.

The girl’s parents, Mohammad Zafar and his wife Zaheen, recounted the Oct. 29 incident from jail. The father said the girl had turned to look at a boy who drove by on a motorcycle, and he told her it was wrong.

‘‘She said ‘I didn’t do it on purpose. I won’t look again.’ By then I had already thrown the acid. It was her destiny to die this way,’’ the girl’s mother told the British broadcaster.

http://www.boston.co...sYgP/story.html

How can parents do this to their child?? I can't help but wonder what kind of sentence they will get.

[Guest]

Just read about another horrific "honor killing;" a 15 year old Pakistani girl was killed by her parents - acid thrown on her - for looking at a boy.

The girl’s parents, Mohammad Zafar and his wife Zaheen, recounted the Oct. 29 incident from jail. The father said the girl had turned to look at a boy who drove by on a motorcycle, and he told her it was wrong.

‘‘She said ‘I didn’t do it on purpose. I won’t look again.’ By then I had already thrown the acid. It was her destiny to die this way,’’ the girl’s mother told the British broadcaster.

http://www.boston.co...sYgP/story.html

How can parents do this to their child?? I can't help but wonder what kind of sentence they will get.

‘‘She said ‘I didn’t do it on purpose. I won’t look again.’ By then I had already thrown the acid.

He just happened to be carrying a bucket of acid? Really strong acid. What on earth for?

I echo your question, what is in their minds that they can do this to their own child? It is totally baffling to me.

[wyly]

The thread is about culture - and religious culture is very much related to this discussion.

I see what you did there. Absurd caricatures of reasonable suggestions is pretty vague. Barring religions from Canada - is that the former or the latter ?

nicely done michael, if these had been identified as muslims it would change the nature of the debate entirely...

[Bonam]

I echo your question, what is in their minds that they can do this to their own child? It is totally baffling to me.

Religion. It short-circuits the normal thought processes of the brain and enables totally inhuman behaviors.

[Guest]

Religion. It short-circuits the normal thought processes of the brain and enables totally inhuman behaviors.

Well, my sig would seem to indicate that I am of the same mind, but even religion seems to me to be an inadequate reason for this behaviour.

[guyser]

Religion. It short-circuits the normal thought processes of the brain and enables totally inhuman behaviors.

Except when it doesnt.

The Daughter (older Sister) turned the parents in and demanded charges be filed.

[wyly]

people murder for all sorts of stupid reasons in india, in the ME, and in canada...no act of murder is less heinous than another that the justification for the murder in the mind of the murderer is repeated in every culture...we can't claim any moral highground until we ourselves are a murder free society,..

[Guest American Woman]

‘‘She said ‘I didn’t do it on purpose. I won’t look again.’ By then I had already thrown the acid.

He just happened to be carrying a bucket of acid? Really strong acid. What on earth for?

I echo your question, what is in their minds that they can do this to their own child? It is totally baffling to me.

It boggles the mind. That people can, and do, chose to do this to their child ....