DogOnPorch Posted October 15, 2012 Report Posted October 15, 2012 Thats a nice story, but not sure what it has to do with these demonstrations. These people are wrong to want what they want, and they arent going to get it, but it seems to me they are going about it the right way. The rest of your post is a work of fiction describing an event that hasnt happened yet. I have no idea how google would react to an attack on one of their facilities... In any case they dont normally host content, they cache it so they can index it. I dont find your prediction on what would happen all that plausible. People in the west would be outraged if google started blocking such content, and people would go to other indexes to find it. Google would lose a lot of money if they did that. ...and if Larry Page wakes-up with an ax wielding Jihadi at the foot of his bed, then what? Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
DogOnPorch Posted October 15, 2012 Report Posted October 15, 2012 I dont think its extremist, I just think they are wrong. Same goes for anti-abortion protesters... they are also rejecting how society as we know it works today, but as long as they do it peacefully and lawfully they arent extremists in my view. The ones that shoot at doctors or bomb abortion clinics would be. Same goes for these muslims. If you are going to lable peacefull demonstration as "extremist", then you are setting the bar pretty damn low. Not extremist? That asshat is calling our society immoral and wants to fix things the Sharia way by turning us into Pakistan. That's extreme to me and most other folks...just not you. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Moonlight Graham Posted October 15, 2012 Report Posted October 15, 2012 (edited) Congratulations, MG. As these occurences continue, I have no doubt that more and more of those "on the left" who once blindly supported "multiculturalism" will come to see the reality of the situation, as you have. At a certain point, issues become real enough to transcend partisan bickering and become obvious to the population. Well i was never a fan of multiculturalism, nor do I associate myself with generalizing lables like "the left" or "right". I believe that a large portion of our population has been educated/conditioned/brainwashed to feel that multiculturalism is is this great inclusive force with positive benefits. Slowly people are seeing cracks in the wall, and thankfully European countries will be the first to crumble so that Canada might be able to react before it gets as bad as it will in countries like France and UK. With globalization seemingly ever-increasing, i wonder how this conflict between Western and Muslim cultures will play out. If the Israeli-Palestine situation is any indication, we better get used to things like Google protests, terror bombings, and the Iraq/Aghanistan/soon-to-be-Iran conflicts. Basically, the next half century or more is going to be f'ed. Edited October 15, 2012 by Moonlight Graham Quote "All generalizations are false, including this one." - Mark Twain Partisanship is a disease of the intellect.
Michael Hardner Posted October 15, 2012 Report Posted October 15, 2012 Hardly new information. Also, not really relevant. Stats about the majority of Muslims say nothing about what a radical element among them is doing. But if they're less radical than the average person as the post asserts, then we don't have much to worry about at all. Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
bud Posted October 15, 2012 Report Posted October 15, 2012 Hardly new information. Also, not really relevant. Stats about the majority of Muslims say nothing about what a radical element among them is doing. nice try bonam. even when facts show that you're wrong, you try to weasel your way out of admitting that you're wrong. statistics and history have proven that non-muslims americans are more likely to commit a terrorist attack in america than an american muslim. Stats: While it might seem chilling to learn that 8% of American Muslims feel that violence against civilian targets is “often or sometimes justified” if the cause is right, you have to compare that to the response given by non-Muslim Americans, 24% of whom said that such attacks are “often or sometimes justified.” History: Oklahoma city bombing and numerous anti-abortion murders are just a few examples of non-muslim american terrorist attacks. to refresh your memory: 9. Muslims in the West cheer for terrorist violence While it might seem chilling to learn that 8% of American Muslims feel that violence against civilian targets is “often or sometimes justified” if the cause is right, you have to compare that to the response given by non-Muslim Americans, 24% of whom said that such attacks are “often or sometimes justified.” This is reflected in most major surveys. When a large-scale survey asked if “attacks on civilians are morally justified,” 1% of the French public, 1% of the German public and 3% of the British public answered yes; among Muslims, the responses were 2%, 0.5%, and 2%. Asked if it is “justifiable to use violence for a noble cause,” 7% of the French public agreed, along with 8% of French Muslims; 10% of the German public and fewer than 2% of German Muslims; 10% of the British public and 8% of British Muslims. This may well be because 85% of the victims of Islamic terrorism are Muslims. Quote http://whoprofits.org/
Argus Posted October 15, 2012 Report Posted October 15, 2012 nice try bonam. even when facts show that you're wrong, you try to weasel your way out of admitting that you're wrong. statistics and history have proven that non-muslims americans are more likely to commit a terrorist attack in america than an american muslim. All "non muslim" Americans do make up about, what 99% of the population, don't they? So that's a ridiculous argument to make. And aside from Oklahoma I'm unable to think of any non-Muslims who perpetrated or were trying to perpetrate mass murder. There have been any number of Muslim Americans, however, arrested for plotting such things, or for doing them. Stats: While it might seem chilling to learn that 8% of American Muslims feel that violence against civilian targets is “often or sometimes justified” if the cause is right, you have to compare that to the response given by non-Muslim Americans, 24% of whom said that such attacks are “often or sometimes justified.” Most westerners are thinking of things like War Two and the bombing of Dresdan and Hiroshima, not going down to the local Wal-Mart with a machinegun because someone dissed Mohammed on his Facebook page. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
jacee Posted October 15, 2012 Report Posted October 15, 2012 If you don't see a problem with some radicals demanding a curtailment of a democracies/companies/newspapers/ or citizen's rights, YOU are the problem. This is the same action that leads to violent attacks on our freedoms. It's sick behavior to expect 'us' to become 'them'. No I don't see a problem with anybody "demanding" anything ... THAT'S FREEDOM OF SPEECH! "leads to violent attacks" Give it a rest. Quote
jacee Posted October 15, 2012 Report Posted October 15, 2012 (edited) Are you suggesting that Dalton is really a conservative? All "non muslim" Americans do make up about, what 99% of the population, don't they? So that's a ridiculous argument to make. And aside from Oklahoma I'm unable to think of any non-Muslims who perpetrated or were trying to perpetrate mass murder. There have been any number of Muslim Americans, however, arrested for plotting such things, or for doing them. Most westerners are thinking of things like War Two and the bombing of Dresdan and Hiroshima, not going down to the local Wal-Mart with a machinegun because someone dissed Mohammed on his Facebook page. Or bombing Bagdad ... drones in Pakistan ... Does it matter how the civilians die? Does it matter whose civilians they are? Edited October 16, 2012 by jacee Quote
The_Squid Posted October 15, 2012 Report Posted October 15, 2012 They have a right to protest peacefully about ANYTHING, no matter how wrong they are. Quote
bud Posted October 16, 2012 Report Posted October 16, 2012 (edited) All "non muslim" Americans do make up about, what 99% of the population, don't they? So that's a ridiculous argument to make. we're using percentages and not total numbers. And aside from Oklahoma I'm unable to think of any non-Muslims who perpetrated or were trying to perpetrate mass murder. tell me, how many muslim american have perpetrated mass murder? There have been any number of Muslim Americans, however, arrested for plotting such things, or for doing them. sure. we won't count all the abortion related murders or the unibomber or the pipe bomber and numerous other attacks by non-muslims. Most westerners are thinking of things like War Two and the bombing of Dresdan and Hiroshima, not going down to the local Wal-Mart with a machinegun because someone dissed Mohammed on his Facebook page. ? whatever point you're trying to make, didn't really make much sense. when was the last time a muslim american went to the local wal-mart with a machine gun because someone was dissing muhammed? are crazy gun attacks limited to dissatisfaction with how the person's religion is being treated? because there have been numerous crazy gun attacks by non-muslims in america. Edited October 16, 2012 by bud Quote http://whoprofits.org/
kraychik Posted October 16, 2012 Author Report Posted October 16, 2012 Pretty big crowd, you have to admit. As far as I know, shooting the messenger, while time-honored, doesn't change the creepy fact that the "tiny fringe of extremism " was able to mobilize a small army right in the heart of London. It's raw intimidation just as much as a protest. The thing is that this is a broad pattern of behaviour that we're seeing all across the Western world, and the story is buried by most of the media because it doesn't fit in with their leftist narrative. We've seen these shows of intimidation in Toronto, New York, Ottawa, London, Moscow, Madrid, Paris, Rome, Oslo, Sydney, Stockholm, and so forth. Moreover, several of these demonstrations involved serious violence. That's to say nothing of the terrorism we've also seen around the Western world from the usual suspects. Of course, certain folks refuse to acknowledge the nature of this problem and prefer to hurl slanderous accusations of racism and "Islamophobia" towards those that bring forward facts that disrupt the narrative of cultural relativity an "multiculturalism". Quote
kraychik Posted October 16, 2012 Author Report Posted October 16, 2012 ...all men, you might notice. Seig Heil... Geezzz...just missing the torch-light parade. Perhaps that's next... Women often demonstrate as well, they just do it separately. That's another rejection of what ordinary people would consider a basic value of modern civilisation: regular interactions between the sexes and not a rigid separation in all walks of life. Again, we're importing people by the millions who fundamentally reject core values upon which our societies are built. The left is opening the gates for the barbarians, and stupefied of the problems resulting from that decision. Quote
kraychik Posted October 16, 2012 Author Report Posted October 16, 2012 these Muslims are protesting peacefully. That's allowed in democracies, and you don't have to like what they are protesting about. Are you suggesting that someone in this thread opposes the right to freedom of speech, expression, and association? You asserting this point implies that certain people in here have taken an opposing position. The problem would come if there are sufficient Muslims in the country to push something like this thru. As we've seen, the radical element is pretty good at keeping the more moderate Muslims cowed - they don't often speak up when the radicals go on a tear. This is another reason, aside from the economics of it, that I'm against such large immigration numbers in Canada. You let in too many people of any given ethnicity/religion what have you, and they want to change the country they moved to to be more like their home country. Reducing immigration numbers would prevent this and insure better assimilation. All you need is a sufficient number of people to accept the perspective that freedom of speech and expression can justifiably be further restricted than it already is. For example, we have communists like jacee that have openly stated that they support destruction of private property and assault in the name of "free speech". Intimidation from Islamists provides further justification to the left and their weak lemming followers for their never-ending desire to destroy fundamental rights. Quote
DogOnPorch Posted October 16, 2012 Report Posted October 16, 2012 Women often demonstrate as well, they just do it separately. That's another rejection of what ordinary people would consider a basic value of modern civilisation: regular interactions between the sexes and not a rigid separation in all walks of life. Again, we're importing people by the millions who fundamentally reject core values upon which our societies are built. The left is opening the gates for the barbarians, and stupefied of the problems resulting from that decision. That f****** in that video sounds like Hitler. The crowd responds like it was Hitler except it's Alluah Akbar instead of Seig Heil. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
kraychik Posted October 16, 2012 Author Report Posted October 16, 2012 (edited) I completely agree with all your points. Except the last point that this story will be ignored in the media since you linked to an article that covered plus many other news sources, yes even left-leaning ones, have covered it. Agreeing with reality is a starting point, but if we begin to discuss policies to address these problems, I am confident that you would oppose the most basic solutions. As far as the media is concerned, these stories are often buried, and there is no serious dialogue whatsoever going on in leftist Canadian media (CBC, National Post, Toronto Star, etc) regarding a review of "multiculturalism" policies. It is a sacred cow that is not to be questioned. The article I linked is from a right-leaning British newspaper. The BBC barely covered it (it was not a primary headline on the main page on the 14th when the event occurred), and the Guardian didn't cover it at all. There is a widespread consensus among leftist media outlets to play down these stories. We must limit the number of muslim immigrants (and others who have profoundly different social/political beliefs) allowed into Canada in order to prevent a critical mass of these types of people with these viewpoints from gaining enough numbers of support that can fundamentally alter our liberal democratic societies. It will also avoid clashes, possibly violent, between large groups of different ideologies (as this and other protests are an example). Why limit Muslims? Why not just keep out Islamists and other undesirables by asking simple screening questions for those wish to come to Canada? It's much simpler, and much more effective. As far as limits go - we don't need limits on Muslims, we need limits on Islamists. One Khadr family is one too many. Canada will continue its slow suicide through leftist immigration policies unless it changes course, it's inevitable. Thankfully, some baby steps have been taken by Jason Kenney. p.s. my agreement with you proves "leftists", as you claim I am, all don't fit into your illogical box of stereotypes you love to spout. I have stated many times that labels have limitations and cannot encompass the complexity of all individuals, but that doesn't mean that there isn't a lot of utility in using them where appropriate. Edited October 16, 2012 by kraychik Quote
kraychik Posted October 16, 2012 Author Report Posted October 16, 2012 That f****** in that video sounds like Hitler. The crowd responds like it was Hitler except it's Alluah Akbar instead of Seig Heil. Islamism IS the new Nazism. The number of parallels shared between the Nazis and Islamists is frightening. More frightening, however, is how the left is doing everything it can to obstruct efforts to protect our societies from this clear and present danger. We can all see it in this thread. From strawman arguments like "everyone has the right to peacefully protest", as if ANYONE has asserted otherwise, and attempts to pretend that this is a "tiny minority" that isn't worth paying attention to. If we do not defeat this leftist narrative, we will destroy ourselves. Quote
kraychik Posted October 16, 2012 Author Report Posted October 16, 2012 Congratulations, MG. As these occurences continue, I have no doubt that more and more of those "on the left" who once blindly supported "multiculturalism" will come to see the reality of the situation, as you have. At a certain point, issues become real enough to transcend partisan bickering and become obvious to the population. The real test for socialists like Moonlight Graham will be whether or not he supports reforms to address this problem. Being a socialist and having little respect for individual freedom, I imagine he would be comfortable with oppressive measures marketed as solutions. Quote
jacee Posted October 16, 2012 Report Posted October 16, 2012 (edited) The left is opening the gates for the barbarians, and stupefied of the problems resulting from that decision. OMIGOD! You mean the Celts are trying to get in again!?! Edited October 16, 2012 by jacee Quote
jacee Posted October 16, 2012 Report Posted October 16, 2012 For example, we have communists like jacee that have openly stated that they support destruction of private property and assault in the name of "free speech". Reported. Quote
Michael Hardner Posted October 16, 2012 Report Posted October 16, 2012 Why limit Muslims? Why not just keep out Islamists and other undesirables by asking simple screening questions for those wish to come to Canada? It's much simpler, and much more effective. As far as limits go - we don't need limits on Muslims, we need limits on Islamists. Your biggest strength is that you have put forward a suggestion that is achievable and realistic. I don't think many reasonable people would oppose simple questions asking if you support Canadian values as described in our constitution - freedom of expression - gender and so on. Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
kraychik Posted October 16, 2012 Author Report Posted October 16, 2012 Reported. What are you reporting, exactly? I am accurately describing you as a communist who has contempt for freedom of speech and expression. Quote
kraychik Posted October 16, 2012 Author Report Posted October 16, 2012 Your biggest strength is that you have put forward a suggestion that is achievable and realistic. I don't think many reasonable people would oppose simple questions asking if you support Canadian values as described in our constitution - freedom of expression - gender and so on. You're right, reasonable people will not disagree with me. Leftists, however, will vigorously oppose any such efforts. This was demonstrated in the the older thread where leftists like you, wyly, guyser, and BlackDog were attacking the very existence of a problem long before potential solutions were ever brought forward. In other words, how do you even begin to address a problem if you don't even know about it? It comes back down to the question: if a tree falls in the woods and Michael Hardner isn't around to hear it, does it make a sound? Quote
DogOnPorch Posted October 16, 2012 Report Posted October 16, 2012 What are you reporting, exactly? I am accurately describing you as a communist who has contempt for freedom of speech and expression. This is a problem on this website. Rather than fight back, they'll run for the apron strings. Folks get banned here for some really weak reasons. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
kraychik Posted October 16, 2012 Author Report Posted October 16, 2012 (edited) This is a problem on this website. Rather than fight back, they'll run for the apron strings. Folks get banned here for some really weak reasons. More specifically, it's a problem with communists and other leftists on this website who have contempt for freedom of speech and expression. I did a brief search of banned users on this board and was completely unsurprised to discover that the overwhelming majority of them held opinions that came from the right side of the political divide. Edited October 16, 2012 by kraychik Quote
DogOnPorch Posted October 16, 2012 Report Posted October 16, 2012 More specifically, it's a problem with communists and other leftists on this website who have contempt for freedom of speech and expression. I did a brief search of banned users on this board and was completely unsurprised to discover they that overwhelming majority of them held opinions that came from the right side of the political divide. Two of my best friends on this website have been banned for holding an opinion different from the complainer. It's the way of the World these days. Don't like something or something offends you? Complain until you get the results you desire. Childish. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
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