Immigrant's qualities

[-TSS-]

Canada is such a popular destination of immigration from all over the world that it can pick and choose which immigrants it wants and which ones it rejects. If Canada allowed everyone who would like to live in Canada to move to Canada its population would be 1bn so it is only understandable that very strict laws concerning immigration are in place. North-America attracts the best brains from all over the world, therefore xenophobia is rarer there than in Europe or at least it is based on different reasons. In Europe anti-immigration is often caused by a feeling that the immigrants in the European countries too often lack any skills that would contribute to the societies and immigrants are more of a liability or a drain on society rather than an asset.

[Guest Peeves]

Here are some statistics that don't come out of somebody's lazy opinions. Stats Canada released the latest statistics from 2011

http://www.cbc.ca/ne...e-manitoba.html

Yes, there's immigrant heavy Toronto at 2nd lowest on the list. Is it even remotely possible that immigrants are less likely to commit violent crime than natural born Canadians - especially those from Western Cities ?

I propose we start sending people from the top 3 cities (Winnipeg, Regina, Saskatoon) to Pakistan.

I think one might say that immigrants as a group are less likely to become criminals.

That does not change the fact that criminals do enter, and after serving a sentence and being deported, then all too often, return.

Or that convicted terrorists can play our liberal Canadian appeal policies and avoid deportation for over twenty....20, years.

http://www.foxnews.c...,406702,00.html

"In 1987, when a much grayer Mohammad arrived at Canada's doorstep, his entry visa made no mention of his terrorist act. Canadian authorities later determined Mohammad was a convicted terrorist, and they ordered him out of the country.

Yet Mohammad, having repeatedly appealed government orders for his expulsion, has extended his stay for 20 years. He still resides in the same house in Brantford."

Read more: http://www.foxnews.c...l#ixzz29LBx39tz

Edited October 14, 2012 by Peeves

[CPCFTW]

I think one might say that immigrants as a group are less likely to become criminals.

No they aren't, most of the criminals and especially violent criminals in toronto are immigrants. The reason western cities are so high is because of native americans who have been completely failed by socialist policies that fail to integrate them into society. Michael knows this but is being dishonest.

[dre]

Really? None of them? No problems at all?

Of course some immigrants cause issues just like some natural born Canadians cause issues.

But to prove that immigrants are a problem you would have to show that they commit crimes at substancially higher rates than everyone else. Iv looked for evidence of that and from what I can tell the crime rate for immigrants is roughly the same as it is for the general population. So is the unemployment rate (its within 2%).

[-TSS-]

Under the Canadian immigration-laws it is more than likely that your immigrants are generally better behaved and otherwise very welcomable(I wonder if there is such a word) than immigrants here in Europe. It would be a miracle if IT-engineers from India caused more trouble than the mainstream-population. Here in Europe we have illiterate peasants who want a sharia-law. They are probably the ones that Canada rejected.

[WWWTT]

North-America attracts the best brains from all over the world

And what is your definition of a "Best brain"?

WWWTT

[Guest Peeves]

Why on earth would would you want to strengthen patriotism? Its a mild form of retardation that impedes the ability to think objectively.

Patriotism from your perspective is apparently an undesirable trait or quality. In my estimation it would be desirable.

" love for or devotion to one's country ."

Those that don't share that view are certainly unable to think objectively about their country.

[Guest Peeves]

The problem is that all that stuff is bunk. Immigrants to Canada dont present any of the problems you think they do.

Neatly ambiguous. Just what are the problems he thinks they cause? Please enumerate them for our edification and response.

[Guest Peeves]

I live in a safe rural area and I wish this area to remain safe. It becomes unsafe every time Canada lets in an immigrant that doesn't meet strict criteria. We must make it harder to get into Canada not easier. The safety of our citizens depends on it. I don't understand how people here don't understand that. I might add that many here live in small towns and have limited contact with foreigners at all. I find it humorous that people with the least amount of experience with immigrants wish to tell Canada what they should do with immigrants lol. lets band together to keep Canada a safe country for everyone.

I think Kenny is on the right track. We need to vet immigrants and hold refugees until vetted.

[Mr.Canada]

I think Kenny is on the right track. We need to vet immigrants and hold refugees until vetted.

Of course he is. People have gotten the idea that coming to Canada and being allowed to live here is some sort of human right. It's a privilege and people seem to be forgetting that. So it's up to Mr. Kenney to remind people that we are watching and we will not accept the worlds undesirable people. He understands that not every applicant is good for Canada. Some people can not or will not understand that.

[login]

I wonder if anyone else has trouble with this family being accepted as immigrants in Canada?

A now murderer, Illiterate immigrant who is broke, can't speak English, with several (6) children, with a wife who had t.b and is an epileptic. (now murdered).

"they arrived in Canada from India, where they had lived after leaving Afghanistan. The couple failed to learn English, despite taking English as a second language classes for a full year, the daughter said.

Her mother suffered from epilepsy, and had tuberculosis. Both she and her husband were on disability benefits and money was running short."

Well first off, they wouldn't have likely left Afghanistan if Canada hadn't been part of a coalition of countries that turned it into an even bigger war zone. Canada has a humanitarian duty to those less advantaged from the developing world, and it should have the smarts to resolve these sorts of issues.

1. You give them more time to learn and adapt different learning strategies, 1 year is a short period of time to gain a strong level in any language. They have 4 years before they need it for the immigration test.

2. You give them work that doesn't require english or has someone who knows langauges they do speak. For instance they may know Hindi or Urdu etc.. thus there may be a bridge, just because they don't speak English doesn't mean they can't work. There is medication for Epilepsi and TB is tragic but it is something that we can correct. If the pharmaceutical industry wasn't so capitalized on its essential medications like any TB medications or anti virals, or the government took a more active role in buying IPs for domestic production, or funding research for rights to discovery then the costs involved in medicine would be secondary. But no if the government actually cared about eliminating poverty and making real work by creating nationalized neiches that the poverty would help with such as resource development, essential public services, and just cut a huge hunk of the overpayed public service off and suplimented it with baseline payment for those without private stream work then both government costs and general productivity would increase.

You can't blame them you can only blame an ignorant fascist government.

Edited October 14, 2012 by login

[Michael Hardner]

No they aren't, most of the criminals and especially violent criminals in toronto are immigrants. The reason western cities are so high is because of native americans who have been completely failed by socialist policies that fail to integrate them into society. Michael knows this but is being dishonest.

I know no such thing. I can post statistics, and you can post your prejudiced opinions and we can just continue that way I suppose.

[Argus]

Of course some immigrants cause issues just like some natural born Canadians cause issues.

But to prove that immigrants are a problem you would have to show that they commit crimes at substancially higher rates than everyone else. Iv looked for evidence of that and from what I can tell the crime rate for immigrants is roughly the same as it is for the general population. So is the unemployment rate (its within 2%).

According to the study the Fraser Institute did immigration presently costs this country about $23 billion a year. Do you have any response to that?

[Argus]

I know no such thing. I can post statistics, and you can post your prejudiced opinions and we can just continue that way I suppose.

Your stats don't contradict his opinion. And we do know that western cities have major issues with native crime.

[dre]

According to the study the Fraser Institute did immigration presently costs this country about $23 billion a year. Do you have any response to that?

Well even if I just accept the methodology of that study that number does not mean anything unless you have something to compare it against. Does the fraser institution take into account all of the benefits of having a population that is not receding?

Do you have any meaningfull information that shows that immigrants cause the kind of problems you are alledging? You talked about crime a fair bit, but you dont seem to interested in trying to show the immigrant crime rate is higher than anyone elses. Employment doesnt seem to be an issue because the employment rate for immigrants is only a couple of percent higher which is expected.

Iv looked into this quite a bit and from what I can tell, by any objective measure we have the best behaved and most educated immigrants of any western nation.

What exactly is the problem? Why dont you pick one specific thing and we can start there....

[Rocky Road]

Just so you know, 83% of the inmates in jail in Saskatchewan are aboriginal.

[Mr.Canada]

Just so you know, 83% of the inmates in jail in Saskatchewan are aboriginal.

So what. Why are you saying this? What does this have to do with immigrant qualities?

[Argus]

Well even if I just accept the methodology of that study that number does not mean anything unless you have something to compare it against. Does the fraser institution take into account all of the benefits of having a population that is not receding?

According to the demographic data Canada's population would not recede to any significant degree for many decades, even with no immigration. Further, most of the demographers I've read say immigration is no solution in that area anyway, particularly as the average age of immigrants differs only slightly from that of Canadian born.

Do you have any meaningfull information that shows that immigrants cause the kind of problems you are alledging? You talked about crime a fair bit, but you dont seem to interested in trying to show the immigrant crime rate is higher than anyone elses. Employment doesnt seem to be an issue because the employment rate for immigrants is only a couple of percent higher which is expected.

Unemployment is only part of the issue. Immigrants with poor skills and backgrounds might find employment, but that employment is unlikely to reach a level of compensation where the immigrant is a net financial plus as opposed to a minus to government budgets. That means the more we bring in the more it costs us. Immigrant crime is an issue in certain parts of the country, notably Ontario, and our systems need to be changed to allow for quick deportations in those cases.

Iv looked into this quite a bit and from what I can tell, by any objective measure we have the best behaved and most educated immigrants of any western nation.

Really? Better than in the US? In what way? What criteria did you use in your assessment?

[CPCFTW]

I know no such thing. I can post statistics, and you can post your prejudiced opinions and we can just continue that way I suppose.

It's not an opinion, it's a fact. Look it up.

Violent crime in Canada is largely isolated to immigrants and natives.

[Smallc]

No they aren't, most of the criminals and especially violent criminals in toronto are immigrants.

Citation needed.

[Smallc]

I think Kenny is on the right track. We need to vet immigrants

You're for some reason assuming that we don't now?

Of course he is. People have gotten the idea that coming to Canada and being allowed to live here is some sort of human right.

Oh really? Who thinks that?

It's a privilege and people seem to be forgetting that.

Who has forgotten that? Certainly not people who have to go through immigration hoops.

So it's up to Mr. Kenney to remind people that we are watching and we will not accept the worlds undesirable people. He understands that not every applicant is good for Canada. Some people can not or will not understand that.

I want you to find me one of the people that thinks the things you claim.

According to the study the Fraser Institute

nuff said.

So what. Why are you saying this? What does this have to do with immigrant qualities?

Well, aboriginal people are certainly not recent immigrants.

[login]

Immigrants with poor skills and backgrounds might find employment, but that employment is unlikely to reach a level of compensation where the immigrant is a net financial plus as opposed to a minus to government budgets. That means the more we bring in the more it costs us.

Are you refering to "us" as a bunch of idiots?

Labour is labour. Most jobs people have take half a brain to perform and can be trained for in a very short period of time.

It is just a bunch of BS. It is because the people that accumulate capital only use it for their objectives rather than employing people. That is why the government needs to be a bottleneck and safegaurd to insure employment, real work for those to develope skills because we as the public cannot depend on private individuals to employ us, because they don't need to. There is no safegaurd other than a strong federal government work program through essential public services, key goods production and resource extraction.

[CPCFTW]

http://www.torontopolice.on.ca/homicide/mostwanted.php

watch out for rosaleen wallace!

[dre]

According to the demographic data Canada's population would not recede to any significant degree for many decades, even with no immigration. Further, most of the demographers I've read say immigration is no solution in that area anyway, particularly as the average age of immigrants differs only slightly from that of Canadian born.

Unemployment is only part of the issue. Immigrants with poor skills and backgrounds might find employment, but that employment is unlikely to reach a level of compensation where the immigrant is a net financial plus as opposed to a minus to government budgets. That means the more we bring in the more it costs us. Immigrant crime is an issue in certain parts of the country, notably Ontario, and our systems need to be changed to allow for quick deportations in those cases.

Really? Better than in the US? In what way? What criteria did you use in your assessment?

Further, most of the demographers I've read say immigration is no solution in that area anyway

Id love to see a link to demographers saying that adding to the population is not a solution to the population decreasing.

Immigrants with poor skills and backgrounds might find employment, but that employment is unlikely to reach a level of compensation where the immigrant is a net financial plus as opposed to a minus to government budgets.

That all depends on how you calculate that. If youd provide a cite then we could look at some numbers.

And IF thats true, thats not a problem with immigration its a structural problem with our economy. If these jobs are a drain on our economy then that would be the case whether its immigrants working in them, or Canadians.

We have a labor shortage in Canada, and are you really suggesting the economy would be better off we didnt have people to do these "unskilled jobs"? If companies cannot fill these positions they will go somewhere where they can.

Really? Better than in the US? In what way? What criteria did you use in your assessment?

I looked at things like crime, education, and employment.

Edited October 15, 2012 by dre

[Guest Peeves]

There are sensible and reasonable postings in this thread and others like suggesting )as I Read it( that Canada has a fascist government, natives )aka first nations(are in our jails, Immigrants cause most of our crimes, and picayune questions in lieu of any sensible response. etc.

It's no wonder some never get replies. They don't warrant nor do they deserve serious consideration.

I ask. Should the family I referenced ever have been accepted as immigrants?

I suggest a resounding NO!

If you think otherwise please give sensible responses. If you agree, please elaborate.

For example, our health care is certainly lacking. We as a country don't make the top 25, so why would we ever consider a n immigrant that would put more strain on our health care system that isn't serving Canadians well?

For example, a family with 6 kids and apparently no marketable skills, an illiterate, and unable to speak our official language(s).?

For example financially unable to maintain a living and likely to go on social assistance adding more to our taxes?

For example, not vetting their cultural proclivities as they pertain to our own and if they will cause conflict which we do not need.

For example let's deal with those 'examples' before going off on speculative issues about natives in jail and unsubstantiated claims..i.e. our fascist government and the speculative cause of their leaving Afghanistan of course being our fault.

For example, we need rational adult opinions not whining jejune dis illusionary nit wit responses. You know who you are.