Conservative Government's Assault on Reason

[cybercoma]

Allan Gregg has outlined at much length and in detail this government's "assault on reason."

Read here: http://allangregg.co...93pVM18.twitter

[Federal budget cuts were] no random act of downsizing, but a deliberate attempt to obliterate certain activities that were previously viewed as a legitimate part of government decision-making – namely, using research, science and evidence as the basis to make policy decisions. It also amounted to an attempt to eliminate anyone who might use science, facts and evidence to challenge government policies.

The particular areas being cut by the federal government are those areas that allow the government to make informed decisions about how they spend taxpayers' dollars. Without the guidance of the research bodies that the government eliminated, the only thing they have to go on are ideology and populist rabble-rousing.

Of particular concern is how these "cuts" will affect governance into the future beyond the current party in power. This is a fundamental "dumbing down" of our federal government. Going forward, it seems parliament will be required to make decisions in the dark. For how many times Kevin Page and opposition MPs have requested information in order to make informed decisions and been denied, perhaps that's exactly what the Conservative Party wants.

A vicious cultural wheel therefore is turned by a political one. A fearful, divided citizenry fights off uncertainty by protecting its own turf; politicians exploit this division by choosing sides and offering simplistic solutions to address these fears; and the population seeks solace in the simplistic solutions. So instead of trying to bridge these differences through consensus and finding compromise based on reason, what we see all too often today is the politics of polarization, over-torqued partisanship and dogma.

Edited October 11, 2012 by cybercoma

[cybercoma]

For those that aren't aware, Allan Gregg founded Decima Research and was the Tory strategist during the Mulroney years.

[eyeball]

Allen Gregg's article is brilliant.

[eyeball]

For those that aren't aware, Allan Gregg founded Decima Research and was the Tory strategist during the Mulroney years.

Gregg should run for PM. I'd knock on doors for him day and night if this manifesto was the basis of his platform.

[login]

Well the courts still exist right, the attorney general hasn't completely shut them down yet, so some point of researching information still exists from the government.

I think in part the Government may be more along the lines of PRIVATIZE EVERYTHING, even information. There are schools and stuff. I'm sure orgs like the NSA have all the facts our government pays to get anyway right. I think like CSIS or something has a partnership with them, or something like the mystified UKUSA, so perhaps Canada can just get their info from them.

In reality there is still a lot out there, but what needed information is missing?

Scientists have the world called science, Academia is in part public (and publically funded) and in part private in that it is international, local and everywhere in between. I'd rather have 0 tax and have trusted organizations manage information - since it is all opinion anyway.

I think perhaps orgs like Decima don't like the idea of not having the access to demographics. No worries companies like google and apple will tell everyone how the world is. They might even be able to tell you how you are even if it is grossly inaccurate.

I sort of like the idea of an "anonymous government", but it does represent both a safety and a danger.

I would much better like the idea of a government more-secure public national intranet, where users just send all their statistics to the Multivac.

Access to do the research is the real issue, because if we don't have access to power of state to gain access to private property for studies etc.. we won't know the for instance environmental dangers untiil they are in the public realm.

I disagree though, I think that there is a trend of downsizing (which although my heart goes out to the public service) is too large based on the current work model, and the net benefits. I think the public service needs massive reorganization, and more power needs to be transfered from exclusive government domains to the good citizenry.

What Gregg is omiting about the staffing cuts is that the Conservatives inflated the size of the Federal government in their first few years in. They are just normalizing the size of government back to what it was when they went in.

I do like the idea of "open assessment" that is parliamentary committee reports on any project that someone petitions to have parliament address before approval, and all requests are to be slated. I'm sure some groups would flag everything for review.. and we would put parliament to work. I like the idea of that type of process where the public has access to parliamentary committee to determine if requests requiring environmental and public interest are allowed for anyone in the public to voice their concerns and present their case for or against, and no only in ottawa but also via phone internet and remote feed.

I think the library and archives act is a bit too desierous, what they need to do is connect with local libraries - if they havn't already to out source some of their duties to the local level and to university and college libraries.

Experimentation lakes should have been turned over to "all universities and colleges" in Canada, as well as solicit foreign institutions for membership in a group corporation, and interested private stake holders, in the scope of a not-for profit research corporation.

Having trusted information is important but I think the government needs more "input streams" for data from the public.. let the public say what they think is valued information on a subject. If scientist want to supply data great, but we should support scientists in projects of merit. Information should be in the public domain not the private domain. This is why reforms to copyright law on fair use for research are important. I think fair use for public policy and governance is also something that should be in the act.

I think the idea of privatizing air lines then legislating them is akin to nationalization but everything that is legislated is a little nationalized. I think if the government want continuous service it should be expanding its military fleets with Canadian made aircraft, and using them for a host of services. But the problem is government isn't willing to be more economical than the private sector in managing these things, and that is a shame.

Interesting article but double speak only exists if you listen to what they are saying.

The child pornographers link almost suggest Toews took picture of the underage girl he was reported as messing around with, whether true or not.

Wow, I'm suprised he goes into the US line of fire.

He does exonerate himself with

Having conceded this, I DO believe that this particular government is pursuing a not-so-hidden agenda. It starts with the premise that the Canadian political pendulum has over swung in the direction of liberalism – that the political agenda and discourse of this country, for too long, has been hijacked by urban elites who do not represent the voice of hard working men and women who live in the burbs, shop at Canadian Tire and take their kids to the hockey rink every week. And I DO believe that Stephen Harper and his colleagues have set out to systematically right what they see as this wrong.

He basically says, yes Harper Government is Hick Government, or rural government.

He further exonerates with

The problem is, notwithstanding a fairly widespread consensus around the orthodoxies of balance budgets, market economies and open trade, Canadians, by and large, still believe in tolerance, compromise, egalitarianism.

and that paragraph that follows

In terms of strategy..

On one hand, political parties no longer see the need to reach out and expand their base beyond their core constituency, because their core constituency is often at odds with the voters whom they otherwise might want to attract. To the contrary, it makes more sense to vilify these voters, as a way to motivate your core.

Core "zero-sum society"

I think you need to read the whole thing, he for the most part is just mimicing mainstream media position in the paper. That is more or less what they are potrayed as/is are. Where is the discussion?

Edited October 11, 2012 by login

[Fletch 27]

His article and opinion piece highlights all the reasons Steve Harper won his majority. Sounds like this political hack and poster may be playing on the wrong end of the spectrum. Great OPINION piece however. It's a shame it does not resound with the rest of Canada and canadians

[cybercoma]

It's a shame it doesn't resound with the Harper Government, especially consider this is a conservative commentator.

[Wild Bill]

It's a shame it doesn't resound with the Harper Government, especially consider this is a conservative commentator.

The OP sparked a memory in me that might be applicable here. There seemed to be an underlying assumption that all these groups were accurate and unbiased "sources of reason". I don't see how we can take that for granted. Perhaps Harper's government sees a problem in that area.

Even what we deem as scientific groups can be biased, particularly with what are not really sciences at all. By these I mean "social sciences" that have to do more with what certain elites already believe rather than what they accurately discover.

Anyhow, back in the mid-60's I was a barely a teenager. One of my neighbours was a lady very active in the NDP. She exposed me to much of their teachings and also policy decisions, as she was privy to much of them.

One thing I never forgot was a strategy that was born from the limited success the NDP had been having at the polls. They were not connecting with a sufficiently large enough number of citizens to win seats. So they came up with a new strategy.

They decided to concentrate their efforts and resources lower down on the political food chain. They became active at the city and town council level, the school trustees and any and all social science research groups they could find!

The idea was that by working from the bottom, often in areas that were not on the radar as political, they would gradually change public values, beliefs and attitudes to those more similar to the NDP catechism!

Even as such a young fellow the idea appalled me! It seemed so "1984-ish", where Orwell described how a ruling elite actually worked to change language in such a way that even contrary thoughts could not be formulated, for lack of the very words necessary to define them!

It wasn't just her. I sat in on meetings of NDP party brass many times, thanks to her. In those days such meetings were often held at supporters' houses, for lack of money. I began to see that often politics could be much more of a religion to some than a true philosophy.

Maybe Harper's team is giving some "push back" in some quarters. Are all these groups he cut back truly independent?

[cybercoma]

Even what we deem as scientific groups can be biased, particularly with what are not really sciences at all.

This is why there are debates. However, when that debate and the policies that follow don't start from a place of reasoned discourse based on the rigorous and systematic data collection and analysis, we all lose.

[cybercoma]

This is also not unique to Canada.

From Leonard Pitts "War on Reality is Killing Our Future":

This is the legacy of the War on Reality. Some of us live under a new ethos, fueled and abetted by Fox, the Internet and talk radio, which holds that facts are optional and reality is multiple choice — and that anyone who questions this is part of the conspiracy against you.

http://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/latest-columns/20121010-leonard-pitts-war-on-reality-is-killing-our-future.ece?

[Argus]

Allan Gregg has outlined at much length and in detail this government's "assault on reason."

Read here: http://allangregg.co...93pVM18.twitter

[/size][/font][/color]

The particular areas being cut by the federal government are those areas that allow the government to make informed decisions about how they spend taxpayers' dollars.

Like other ideologues who want to make a point, Gregg simply only uses those facts which support that point. He thus gives out a list of organizations being cut, but restricts it to the ones which support his point. He lists Statistics Canada, but says Canada Revenue Agency got $8 million more. In fact, CRA's budget has been cut by hundreds of millions, and many thousands of positiois have been cut. He lists Parks Canada, but not the huge cuts at DND. He lists the CBC but not how Foreign Affairs was heavily slashed. And then he tells you this is evidence of how the cuts are focussed on areas which provide sound scientific information.

He also fawns on Al Gore, without even hinting at Gore's open admission that he simply lied about scientific evidence of global warming because that was more effective in rallying public opinon.

Phhht. Lies by deliberate ommision are still lies. And Gregg is a liar. He's got a fine future on FOX TV.

Like any other government, the Tories would rather cut the jobs of back room policy wonks than front line workers who deal with the public. That way the electorate doesn't notice as much. Nothing new here. Every government of every political stripe does the same.

Edited October 11, 2012 by Argus

[Argus]

It's a shame it doesn't resound with the Harper Government, especially consider this is a conservative commentator.

That Gregg worked for the PC party does not in any way indicate he has the slightest inkling of a conservative bone in his body. The PC party died because it basically got rid of all its conservatives and pursued a liberal agenda.

[carepov]

Allan Gregg has outlined at much length and in detail this government's "assault on reason."

Read here: http://allangregg.co...93pVM18.twitter

The particular areas being cut by the federal government are those areas that allow the government to make informed decisions about how they spend taxpayers' dollars. Without the guidance of the research bodies that the government eliminated, the only thing they have to go on are ideology and populist rabble-rousing.

Of particular concern is how these "cuts" will affect governance into the future beyond the current party in power. This is a fundamental "dumbing down" of our federal government. Going forward, it seems parliament will be required to make decisions in the dark. For how many times Kevin Page and opposition MPs have requested information in order to make informed decisions and been denied, perhaps that's exactly what the Conservative Party wants.

Thanks for the topic, I am a big fan of Alan Greg and I agree with most of what he says with some significant exceptions.

I fully agree that:

“our government’s use of evidence and facts as the bases of policy is declining, and in their place, dogma, whim and political expediency are on the rise. And even more troubling …. Canadians seem to be buying it.”

To me the “tough on crime” agenda is a perfect example of this.

Hower the situation is not as dire as Gregg claims, and I do not agree that Harper has:

“a deliberate attempt to obliterate certain activities that were previously viewed as a legitimate part of government decision-making – namely, using research, science and evidence as the basis to make policy decisions. It also amounted to an attempt to eliminate anyone who might use science, facts and evidence to challenge government policies.”

1. I don’t see the change in the census as a big deal at all. IMO, we have ample data and do not require a mandatory form.
   
2. Gregg claims that scrapping the long-gun registry was unreasonable because police chiefs were against it. I would argue that it is the police chiefs that are unreasonable.
   
3. Cutting federal employees ~6% seems reasonable given the increases in the last few years
   
4. Most of the other budget cuts seem reasonable to me
   

Don’t forget that in today’s world it is much easier to gather and transmit information and research than 10-20 years ago. It seems reasonable that we can cut budgets and still gather ample data.

A key point for me is:

“if Canadians are essentially enlightened liberals, and are not prepared to offer wholesale buy-in to this vision of politics and the nation, why do we not hear a hue and cry in protest over the direction we are being led? “

Maybe I am being cynical, but I strongly disagree that Canadians are either enlightened or liberal. Just look around us at MLW!

There is at least one area where the Harper government has out-reasoned all opponents – Politics. Harper has a great read (based on scientific data) on the values and opinions of the typical Canadian. His electoral success and popularity is proof and tells me that the government of Canada is a “reasonable” reflection of Canadian society.

Yes as Gregg says, its time to gather the facts and fight back. IMO, the enemy is the apathetic and ignorant public. Maybe I am being idealistic, but if the public would start caring about and took reasonable positions on issues that matter, the data-driven political research machines of the political parties would pick-up on this and reasonable policies would be developed in response.

[Shady]

His article and opinion piece highlights all the reasons Steve Harper won his majority. Sounds like this political hack and poster may be playing on the wrong end of the spectrum. Great OPINION piece however. It's a shame it does not resound with the rest of Canada and canadians

The far left loves to trot out former conservatives when they say something they agree with. You just know they were big Mulroney supporters too.

[Fletch 27]

And Bob Rae was an NDP!!!!!!

Lise St-Denis crossed the floor to joing the Libs!!!!

Please, your point is mute.. There are words, and then there are ACTIONS! As from the 2 i kindly mentioned above to refute your point....

TA-Da

It's a shame it doesn't resound with the Harper Government, especially consider this is a conservative commentator.

[eyeball]

Like other ideologues who want to make a point, Gregg simply only uses those facts which support that point. He thus gives out a list of organizations being cut, but restricts it to the ones which support his point. He lists Statistics Canada, but says Canada Revenue Agency got $8 million more.

So says the guy who works at CRA.

[eyeball]

Thanks for the topic, I am a big fan of Alan Greg and I agree with most of what he says with some significant exceptions.

I used to think he was a bit of a weenie but I've changed my outlook.

[Fletch 27]

Your entitled to that... Bob Rae changed his outlook on the Liberals too..

I used to think he was a bit of a weenie but I've changed my outlook.

[Rocky Road]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/economy/global-outlook-turns-darker/article4599991/

Global Outlook Turns Darker.

[Fletch 27]

http://www.theglobea...article4599991/

Global Outlook Turns Darker.

Canadian outlook turns BRIGHTER!

http://www.moneyville.ca/article/1268994--more-canadians-living-debt-free-in-2012-rbc

[Smallc]

Quick! Who can put their head in the sand faster?

[cybercoma]

Quick! Who can put their head in the sand faster?

You're not looking at the serious problem that's developing. According to the article, more Canadians are living debt free, while the average amount of non-mortgage debt increased. Combine that with the rest of the data collected that says more people are uncomfortable with the debt they're carrying and more people find their debt to be a source of anxiety.

What could that mean?

Perhaps most importantly, this was an online poll, which is not at all a random sample. The people with the most serious financial problems aren't exactly taking online surveys in their spare time.

Edited October 11, 2012 by cybercoma

[Smallc]

You're not looking at the serious problem that's developing. According to the article, more Canadians are living debt free, while the average amount of non-mortgage debt increased.

What could that mean?

I was agreeing with you....I was laughing at all the responses to you, trying to push the problem to the side.

[cybercoma]

I was agreeing with you....I was laughing at all the responses to you, trying to push the problem to the side.

I edited to elaborate, but I thought you were suggesting things are just fine.

[Rocky Road]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/commentary/editorials/preparing-for-when-the-oil-runs-out/article4602867/

Think I will post this article twice, it is sooo important. What are we going to do when cheap oil is no longer viable?