kraychik Posted September 27, 2012 Report Share Posted September 27, 2012 If I understand you correctly, you are saying that there are no absolute definitions of left and right, conservative or liberal, but rather some sort of Bell curve, where you just plot what you see today and accept an arbitrary centre. I don't agree with that. I use a dictionary. To me, there are absolutes. If I used your method I could have labeled a left and a right to Chairman Mao's Party Congress. I'm not saying your definition is wrong, just that I could never accept it. For bleeding heart, the left and the right are relative. Of course he is absolutely wrong, but let's examine his view briefly. What's true is that society can move in either direction, what isn't true is that popular opinion or consensus gets to redefine the terms. Like you said, using bleeding heart's "logic", if a majority of Cubans are in favour of the communist tyranny, then Cuba is somehow a centrist country, rather than only a centrist country in its own delusional collective mind. Canadian society has, for decades, been shifting to the left. The reasons for this shift are complex, but it has a lot to do with how we've been transferring more control to and vesting more authority in the government over time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kraychik Posted September 27, 2012 Report Share Posted September 27, 2012 If Justin cannot turn around the Liberal party then it's all over for them imo. The Liberals need to win seats back in Ontario, that is their only hope because they are dead in Quebec and always will be. Don't be so optimistic, leftism is like herpes... once you get it, it always comes back. So just because the leftism is a little more controlled now than in decades past doesn't mean Canada doesn't have more cold sores to come in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topaz Posted September 27, 2012 Report Share Posted September 27, 2012 Speaking of Liberal leadership, rumour has it that the Liberals are trying for Mark Carney??? I thought he's be a Conservative. Thoughts on this guy for leadership and PM? http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2012/09/26/f-vp-weston.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newfoundlander Posted September 27, 2012 Report Share Posted September 27, 2012 According to this poll the Liberals would form a majority government under Trudeau. http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/09/27/with-justin-trudeau-as-their-leader-liberals-could-easily-win-federal-election-exclusive-poll/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PIK Posted September 27, 2012 Report Share Posted September 27, 2012 According to this poll the Liberals would form a majority government under Trudeau. http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/09/27/with-justin-trudeau-as-their-leader-liberals-could-easily-win-federal-election-exclusive-poll/ All most choked on my coffee. This will be the 1st trudeau to go down hard. Really If I was justin I would be embarresed by the fact that people say he can win because of his name and he is supposilty cute, but nothing about what he would do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punked Posted September 27, 2012 Report Share Posted September 27, 2012 According to this poll the Liberals would form a majority government under Trudeau. http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/09/27/with-justin-trudeau-as-their-leader-liberals-could-easily-win-federal-election-exclusive-poll/ Saw some polls like this for Dion, saw some polls like this for Iggy. All this poll means is we having heard Justin open his mouth to add to parties problems like all the past leaders of the Liberal party in recent memory. The Liberals still have the problem of not standing for something, and having no policies unless you count what they stole from the NDP as policy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted September 27, 2012 Report Share Posted September 27, 2012 The Liberals still have the problem of not standing for something, That's not their problem. That's what the Canadian public really wants. Canadians don't like ideology. That's why centrist pragmatic governments do so well in this country, no matter which party banner they happen to operate under (Alberta PCs, Saskatchewan Party, Manitoba NDP, Newfoundland PCs, etc). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWTT Posted September 27, 2012 Report Share Posted September 27, 2012 Well, if you are going to deal in "what if", why not "What if the NDP wins a majority government?" Or "what if the NDP wins over 300 seats?". You can "what if" anything but it is a better use of time to stick to what is probable. Sorry Wild Bill. My what if reference was to what if the NDP won one third of the seats in Alberta. My mistake has given a different impression than what I was going for. WWWTT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWTT Posted September 27, 2012 Report Share Posted September 27, 2012 Don't be so optimistic, leftism is like herpes... once you get it, it always comes back. So just because the leftism is a little more controlled now than in decades past doesn't mean Canada doesn't have more cold sores to come in the future. Ok then.If the left is like herpes,then the right is like HIV! If I had a choice between the two,I don't think HIV is the way to go. WWWTT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWTT Posted September 27, 2012 Report Share Posted September 27, 2012 Speaking of Liberal leadership, rumour has it that the Liberals are trying for Mark Carney??? I thought he's be a Conservative. Thoughts on this guy for leadership and PM? http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2012/09/26/f-vp-weston.html I saw this too. If Mark Carney ever decided to jump into the liberal leadership,kiss Justin goodbye! WWWTT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWTT Posted September 27, 2012 Report Share Posted September 27, 2012 According to this poll the Liberals would form a majority government under Trudeau. http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/09/27/with-justin-trudeau-as-their-leader-liberals-could-easily-win-federal-election-exclusive-poll/ Wow that's a real hard one to swallow! Perhaps if the polls continue in this trend then there would be some concern. WWWTT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scribblet Posted September 27, 2012 Report Share Posted September 27, 2012 Just read that. It kinda suggests that Canadians are ready to blindly follow a name with no thought to the consequences. Will be interesting to see if other polls support this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWTT Posted September 27, 2012 Report Share Posted September 27, 2012 That's not their problem. That's what the Canadian public really wants. Canadians don't like ideology. That's why centrist pragmatic governments do so well in this country, no matter which party banner they happen to operate under (Alberta PCs, Saskatchewan Party, Manitoba NDP, Newfoundland PCs, etc). Um ya actually I just saw a poll suggesting that central governments are becoming more unpopular in favour of polarized politics. WWWTT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newfoundlander Posted September 27, 2012 Report Share Posted September 27, 2012 Saw some polls like this for Dion, saw some polls like this for Iggy. All this poll means is we having heard Justin open his mouth to add to parties problems like all the past leaders of the Liberal party in recent memory. The Liberals still have the problem of not standing for something, and having no policies unless you count what they stole from the NDP as policy. What policies did they steal from the NDP? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted September 27, 2012 Report Share Posted September 27, 2012 Um ya actually I just saw a poll suggesting that central governments are becoming more unpopular in favour of polarized politics. You did, did you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted September 27, 2012 Report Share Posted September 27, 2012 What policies did they steal from the NDP? The ones that the NDP claimed later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWTT Posted September 27, 2012 Report Share Posted September 27, 2012 What policies did they steal from the NDP? health care,EI WWWTT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punked Posted September 27, 2012 Report Share Posted September 27, 2012 What policies did they steal from the NDP? Just their entire 2011 platform that is all. Which is fine but I prefer to have the party that comes up with the ideas (Medicare, SS, Childcare, Charter of rights and freedoms etc) then the party that just steals them 20 years later because they have nothing to stand on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Posted September 28, 2012 Report Share Posted September 28, 2012 Justin (just like his father) has probably done some living.....and he also has the Quebec perspective......which (most Canadians are aware) may be different to the rest of Canada I would hope that he would come up with something that ALL Canadians might find interesting Maybe alot of people are not aware that MOST OF QUEBECORS speak English just fine....I lived in Quebec 3 years and found it very difficult to find people who would have patience with my broken (wrecked) french....and wanted to speak ENGLISH...in fact I would tell them please let me practice....and off they would go in English So I don't think that LANGUAGE is the CANADIAN ISSUE TODAY... JOBS......Whether you live in ONTARIO/QUEBEC....we ALL HAVE JOB ISSUES I also don't know if people realize 20 years ago Canada had an opportunity to buy a Carribean island called Turks and Caicos...which would of brought LOTS OF WORK TO CANADIANS....resorts ...golf courses.......hotels ......service industry....and what did our government say at the time Oh no Canada doesn't need that.....well well my fellow Canadians......Britian swooped in and our reaping the benefits of that little venture......AND WHAT ARE WE DOING I SAY CANADA .....IF WE WOULD ALL GET TOGETHER LIKE A FAMILY....SAVE OUR MONEY....THE NEXT TROPICAL ISLAND THAT COMES AVAILABLE....WE CAN TAKE ADVANTAGE. OF........EVEN IN THE PROVINCE OF QUEBEC....ANYONE WITH ANY MONEY..VACATIONS IN FLORIDA.....MEXICO......and how does that help our economy...? MAYBE IT WOULD GIVE CANADIANS SOMETHING TO BE TOGETHER ON.......AS WE WOULD ALL BE WORKING TOGETHER.......AND NOT TAKING OUR GOOD EARNED MONEY....ELSEWHERE THINK ABOUT IT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC_chick Posted September 28, 2012 Report Share Posted September 28, 2012 Ok then.If the left is like herpes,then the right is like HIV! WWWTT I was thinking syphilis. As in lunacy manifests after a period of latency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC_chick Posted September 28, 2012 Report Share Posted September 28, 2012 Saw some polls like this for Dion, saw some polls like this for Iggy. All this poll means is we having heard Justin open his mouth to add to parties problems like all the past leaders of the Liberal party in recent memory. The Liberals still have the problem of not standing for something, and having no policies unless you count what they stole from the NDP as policy. Though I don't completely disagree, I've noticed that people have always underestimated trudeau ever since he ran for politics. There is something appealing about him even if many people can't understand it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWTT Posted September 28, 2012 Report Share Posted September 28, 2012 I was thinking syphilis. As in lunacy manifests after a period of latency. LOL But really these diseases are not laughing matters and we shouldn't be indulging in this dark/black humour. WWWTT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWTT Posted September 28, 2012 Report Share Posted September 28, 2012 Though I don't completely disagree, I've noticed that people have always underestimated trudeau ever since he ran for politics. There is something appealing about him even if many people can't understand it. True. However politics is not the same in Canada today as it was 40 yrs ago. There will be many interviews and attack adds. Many more issues to be fluent in and to fend off. Justin was against the student strikes in Quebec,so he has already alienated the youth vote there! He has shown to use poor judgement and its going to haunt him. WWWTT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newfoundlander Posted September 28, 2012 Report Share Posted September 28, 2012 True. However politics is not the same in Canada today as it was 40 yrs ago. There will be many interviews and attack adds. Many more issues to be fluent in and to fend off. Justin was against the student strikes in Quebec,so he has already alienated the youth vote there! He has shown to use poor judgement and its going to haunt him. WWWTT Do you have a link showing us he was against the students? As well not all students in Quebec were violently protesting in the streets, there were lots against them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmax Posted September 28, 2012 Report Share Posted September 28, 2012 Do you have a link showing us he was against the students? As well not all students in Quebec were violently protesting in the streets, there were lots against them. I doubt there is any position on Trudeau and the students. Just as there wasn't a position from the Federal Conservative Gov or the Opposition. Not All Students were Protesting VIOLENTLY, correct. The majority were simply protesting. Yes, a minority of students were against the protest. All STudents will benefit from the protest as many more students who would have been to young to follow the events will receive lower tuitions when there time comes for post 2ndary. The Students won a hard fought battle. I have students in Ontario who were complaining about the Quebec Protest (not that it affected them) and then complaining about their own outrageous post 2ndary debt. The fight is over, and it has nothing to do with Trudeau. He will stick to fluff, maybe knock out another Conservative Senator and ask for donations for his campaign. With regards to poor judgement, Trudeaus Kitchernr Waterloo Robo call is a lesson in absurd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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