'savage' NY subway ads get a make-over

[bleeding heart]

It's telling that you'll use the same term to describe Pamela Geller as you'll use to describe mass murdering terrorists.

I didn't. I was responding to another poster (and I guarantee you that's not what she meant, either, as I predict your coming fury), and offering a quick and throaway agreement with the idea that violent jihadists aren't too awesome.

O my controversial opinions!

But glad to see you can almost, if not quite, differentiate between separate posters. A terrific skill.

[Guest American Woman]

????

Well, sure they are.

According to bud, they [jihadists] are synonymous with "Muslims," and I haven't seen much objection to that. I can't imagine it being accepted if people here were to use "Jihadist" and "Muslim" interchangeably, as one and the same, yet I've been called "stupid" twice for disagreeing that the two are synonymous; and oddly enough, I don't see any objection from bud for you agreeing that "Jihadists" are "rather grotesque individuals" - even though according to him, you are saying "Muslims are rather grotesque individuals."

But here's the thing - Ms. Geller has referenced Jihadists in her posters - her posters, as I've pointed out, say "defeat Jihad." So what about that is objectionable to you? Is it that they, people you agree are "rather grotesque individuals," are referred to as "savages?" Again. There is no mention of Muslims, Islam, or Palestine. The posters are saying to support Israel over Jihadists. I support the U.S. over Jihadists. Does that make me a racist? Or would referring to Jihadists as savages make me racist? And if so, why isn't agreeing that they are "rather grotesque individuals" not racist? Last but not least, why point out only that Geller is a rather grotesque individual while not pointing out that Jihadists are too?

As I said originally, I don't understand the "racist" accusations, nor do I understand why people would associate Jihadists with all Muslims and/or Palestine. There are those who have declared Jihad against Israel. That is the reality. Is it really wrong to support Israel against them?

This isn't about Geller the person, it's about the posters, and I don't understand why a stand against Jihad would garner the reaction that it has.

[bud]

she's given 2 options.

either support israel or support jihadists.

what is her meaning of jihadists? is it by any chance any group that is in conflict with israel? are jihadists palestinians? if i support palestinians, am i supporting jihadists/savages?

if rabbis and ADL are coming out and calling her a bigot and racist, what do you think is her objective? you think that she's not aiming this ad campaign at muslims? even though she started an organization called: Stop Islamization of America?

here is the ADL chair on pam geller, the person behind these posters:

Geller's self-righteous campaign to show the world the "true face" of Islam is abhorrent and morally repugnant. Geller, in views she outlines in her blog, has linked Islam to bestiality and rape of minors, compared Muslims to Nazis and asserted that Islam inspired Hitler. The Anti-Defamation League has closely followed her anti-Muslim scapegoating and that of Stop Islamization of America, the organization she leads, and has posted additional examples of her comments on its website.

Robert G. Sugarman

National Chair

Edited September 27, 2012 by bud

[Mr.Canada]

Bud, some Muslims are jihadists but all jihadists are Muslims. That's a fact. Jihadists are at war with the west. She probably should've said terrorists. Even the word terrorist is becoming synonymous with being a Muslim in public lexicon. Much like a racist is synonymous with a white person.

She's probably a kook. I don't see why you're spending so much time talking about her. Is this some sort of obsession for you?

[jacee]

Leftist "journalist" channels the contempt of freedom of speech and expression from bud and jacee and gets arrested for vandalism (and hopefully assault).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Oh8qxtvayU

She left her message behind.

I prefer the sticker application myself, faster a

nd won't rile anybody til you're gone.

[August1991]

You are free to put up a poster.

I am free to put a comment on it.

No, you're wrong.

I am free to post a comment here, and you are free to respond. But you are not free to obliterate or deface my comment.

Jacee, there is a big, big difference between what I argue, and what you argue.

[bud]

Bud, some Muslims are jihadists but all jihadists are Muslims. That's a fact. Jihadists are at war with the west. She probably should've said terrorists. Even the word terrorist is becoming synonymous with being a Muslim in public lexicon. Much like a racist is synonymous with a white person.

we have to look at the meaning of jihad and jihadist so that we're not oversimplifying or spreading stereotyping.

jihadists are a mix of people, just like zionists are a mix of people. not all zionists advocate the death of gentile babies just like not all jihadists advocate blowing civilians up or cutting their heads off.

An accurate interpretation of the concept of Jihad is provided by the BBC about how Muslims describe three different types of struggles:

• A believer's internal struggle to live out the Muslim faith as well as possible
  
• The struggle to build a good Muslim society
  
• Holy war: the struggle to defend Islam, with force if necessary
  

In western societies the term jihad is often translated by non-Muslims as "holy war". Scholars of Islamic studies often stress that these words are not synonymous. Muslim authors, in particular, tend to reject such an approach, stressing non-militant connotations of the word.

She's probably a kook. I don't see why you're spending so much time talking about her. Is this some sort of obsession for you?

this is a public discussion board. i am responding to the people who are trying to justify her actions and i feel that it's my duty to speak out against b.s.

Edited September 27, 2012 by bud

[Guest American Woman]

In western societies the term jihad is often translated by non-Muslims as "holy war". Scholars of Islamic studies often stress that these words are not synonymous.

Oh, this is interesting. "Jihad" and "holy war" are not synonymous, but I'm "stupid" for not thinking that "jihad" and "Muslim" are synonymous. Priceless.

Muslim authors, in particular, tend to reject such an approach, stressing non-militant connotations of the word.

Westerners in this day and time tend to translate "jihad" in the terms that those calling for Jihad use it. That makes more of an impression than what "Muslim authors, in particular" have to say about it. When you have a group of people calling for "Jihad," and they are very vocal about it, and very vocal about their goals, and many are acting on it in a less than civilized way, that's what people are going to see and react to.

this is a public discussion board. i am responding to the people who are trying to justify her actions and i feel that it's my duty to speak out against b.s.

You're the one who brought it up - as "racist." Then jacee chimed in with her insistence that people have a right to tear down the posters and deface them, which is not true. It is illegal to do so.

So. Again. People have not been defending or justifying the posters. They have been pointing out that "Jihadists" is not synonymous with "Muslim;" pointing out that "Jihadists" are just as bad as Geller, who has been described as "a rather grotesque individual," and that "defeat Jihad" is not racist. It is freedom of speech. Tearing the posters down, defacing them, is not freedom of speech. So. Again. People have been pointing out the inaccuracies. It doesn't mean they are defending or justifying the posters. In reality, but for the inaccuracies presented in this thread, this discussion would not have taken place.

But again. If I were a Muslim, I'd be upset that you are arguing that "Jihad" is synonymous with "Muslim." If I were a Palestinian, I'd be upset that people are seeing "Jihad" and thinking "Palestinian." I think your insistence that "Jihadist" is synonymous with "Muslim" is no better than what Geller has had to say - and if she were the one to have said it, I'm sure you'd be all over her for it. And rightly so. But instead you call me stupid for not agreeing with it.

In other words, your "speaking out" is b.s.

[jacee]

Jacee, there is a big, big difference between what I argue, and what you argue.

Posters in public places get defaced/pulled down all the time. No big deal.

You're posting in this thread because you are outraged that that particular message got defaced, not because you're a crusader for the sanctity of all messages posted publicly.

Freedom of expression does NOT mean people have to pay attention to your message.

Edited September 27, 2012 by jacee

[kraychik]

She left her message behind.

I prefer the sticker application myself, faster a

nd won't rile anybody til you're gone.

This isn't news to anyone. We all know you're a communist and naturally despise freedom of speech and expression. Of course you support vandalism and suppression of basic freedoms. Eltahawy actually echoed the very same lack of comprehension over freedom of speech and expression you revealed earlier in this thread. You think freedom of speech and expression empowers you to vandalise and destroy private property, as well as harass people.

[kraychik]

Freedom of expression does NOT mean people have to pay attention to your message.

Nobody is forcing anyone to pay attention to anything. What's been done here, and what you support as a communist, is vandalism/destruction of property and harassment.

[Guest American Woman]

Posters in public places get defaced/pulled down all the time. No big deal.

Yeah, actually, it is a "big deal," which is why there's been at least one arrest so far. Her poster is paid advertising, in a space where one must pay for the advertising. If you think you have the right to go pull down a billboard, or a business's sign, guess again. Your freedom of speech does not include such vandalism.

Freedom of expression does NOT mean people have to pay attention to your message.

There's a newsflash. Of course it doesn't. In fact, people who don't like it should choose not to pay attention to the message, because it doesn't mean they can vandalize whatever they don't like, which is the point being made.

[bud]

Oh, this is interesting. "Jihad" and "holy war" are not synonymous, but I'm "stupid" for not thinking that "jihad" and "Muslim" are synonymous. Priceless.

who cares about what YOU think. we all know what you think and what you support.

this is about the poster and the message it wants to convey. this is about a person who leads an organization called Stop Islamization of America. this is about a poster that gives you the option of supporting israel or else you're supporting jihadists/savages. as many (including rabbis and the ADL) have correctly said, this woman and her posters are racist.

[Guest American Woman]

who cares about what YOU think. we all know what you think and what you support.

As I've already said, lots of people - you, among them.

this is about the poster and the message it wants to convey. this is about a person who leads an organization called Stop Islamization of America. this is about a poster that gives you the option of supporting israel or else you're supporting jihadists/savages. as many (including rabbis and the ADL) have correctly said, this woman and her posters are racist.

This thread is about an idiot who tells people who don't think "Jihadist" and "Muslim" are synonymous that they are "stupid."

Way to get your message out there!

[bud]

As I've already said, lots of people - you, among them.

This thread is about an idiot who tells people who don't think "Jihadist" and "Muslim" are synonymous that they are "stupid."

Way to get your message out there!

weak. not surprising that you avoid discussing pam geller and her quest and instead, you flake. your dishonesty has become a routine.

[Guest American Woman]

weak. not surprising that you avoid discussing pam geller and her quest and instead, you flake. your dishonesty has become a routine.

Your insults are what's a routine. Seriously. I have no idea why you aren't suspended.

But since you brought up dishonesty - let's discuss your idiotic claim that "jihadist" and "Muslim" are synonymous - as you criticize Geller because that viewpoint pretty much sums up her beliefs.

[bud]

Your insults are what's a routine. Seriously. I have no idea why you aren't suspended.

i didn't know you felt insulted. regardless, i show respect to those who show and deserve respect.

But since you brought up dishonesty - let's discuss your idiotic claim that "jihadist" and "Muslim" are synonymous - as you criticize Geller because that viewpoint pretty much sums up her beliefs.

i don't think jihadist is synonymous with muslim. what i think is that pam geller tries to equate the two in her poster. which is what she's been doing with all her work since she crawled from the under the rug.

not only that, but jihad should not be stereotyped and misinterpreted. as mentioned before:

we have to look at the meaning of jihad and jihadist so that we're not oversimplifying or spreading stereotyping.

jihadists are a mix of people, just like zionists are a mix of people. not all zionists advocate the death of gentile babies just like not all jihadists advocate blowing civilians up or cutting their heads off.

An accurate interpretation of the concept of Jihad is provided by the BBC about how Muslims describe three different types of struggles:

• A believer's internal struggle to live out the Muslim faith as well as possible
  
• The struggle to build a good Muslim society
  
• Holy war: the struggle to defend Islam, with force if necessary
  

In western societies the term jihad is often translated by non-Muslims as "holy war". Scholars of Islamic studies often stress that these words are not synonymous. Muslim authors, in particular, tend to reject such an approach, stressing non-militant connotations of the word.

Edited September 27, 2012 by bud

[Guest American Woman]

i didn't know you felt insulted.

Did I say I felt insulted? No, I did not. I simply stated the reality. Fact is, I don't feel insulted; I feel like I should be applying to MENSA after reading your posts.

i don't think jihadist is synonymous with muslim.

Then perhaps you shouldn't have said it fifty thousand times, calling me stupid for refuting it.

what i think is that pam geller tries to equate the two in her poster. which is what she's been doing with all her work since she crawled from the under the rug.

So you now realize how wrong you were, and this is how you crawl out of the hole you dug yourself into? Priceless.

(Pssst. You still have some dirt behind your ears..... )

Edited September 27, 2012 by American Woman

[bud]

Did I say I felt insulted? No, I did not. I simply stated the reality. Fact is, I don't feel insulted; I feel like I should be applying to MENSA after reading your posts.

stick to being a hasbara bot. leave the comedy to others.

Then perhaps you shouldn't have said it fifty thousand times, calling me stupid for refuting it.

i will spell it out for you so you're not confused: the message in the poster wants to equate a dishonest meaning of jihadists to savages and then equate both of those to muslims. not only that, but it also wants to push the idea that if you're not supporting israel, then you're supporting savages and the uncivilized.

this poster and its message manages to be wrong on so many levels and yet, you defend it.

So you now realize how wrong you were, and this is how you crawl out of the hole you dug yourself into. (Pssst. You still have some dirt behind your ears..... )

really? your attempts at flaming are just not working. stop embarrassing yourself.

looks like we have to revisit the comment that has you confused and insulted:

don't be stupid. most people are not stupid and they see right through the message and people like you. people know that jihadists is a synonym for muslims.

i was talking about the message in the poster which tries to make jihadists synonymous with muslims. it's not what i think or what the actual meaning is, it's about the meaning behind the message.

Edited September 27, 2012 by bud

[Guest American Woman]

stick to being a hasbara bot. leave the comedy to others.

I was dead serious; I do leave the comedy to others. I leave it to you.

[bud]

love this message that was left beside one of the ads:

I AM A JEWISH JIHADI

On Yom Kippur, I am fasting and reflecting. I am a Jewish Jihadi.

Jihad is an Islamic process of reflection and struggle to bring thoughts, words and actions in alignment with prayer and best ethical practices. So too as Jews we practice sleichot (asking for forgiveness), and teshuva (return to good), offering compensation, asking for forgiveness from the humans whom we have offended.

Indeed this Jewish Month, Elul, comes from a Semitic language of ancient times called Akkadian - and it is also the month of Eylul in Arabic. Our roots are interwoven as is our spirituality. I ask my Muslim brothers and sisters to forgive those Jews whose fear and ignorance only points outward, rather than inward as this day of Yom Kippur asks us to do. TO my fellow Jews - G'mar Hatima Tova.

B'shalom

Marcia Kannry

Founder - The Dialogue Project

http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/334678_477248908962060_1186568200_o.jpg

[GostHacked]

According to bud, they [jihadists] are synonymous with "Muslims," and I haven't seen much objection to that.

Bud has never made that claim.

[Guest American Woman]

Bud has never made that claim.

Yes, he did.

[bud]

the week is never complete until we have another american woman episode where, despite getting an explanation and a review of the explanation, she cannot accept that she's wrong and instead goes into denial mode decorated with emoticons.

[GostHacked]

Yes, he did.

I'd like to see a cite on it. I am willing to say I am wrong if you can show it to me.