Catholic Schools seem superior to Public

[Moonlight Graham]

i've heard hundreds of stories similar to yours. public schools have saved thousands of learners.

Did you attend public school?

[dre]

Mr. Canada is winning this debate by a mile because he's the only person in this topic who has brought in some relevant statistic with a link. Socialist will go on about how the public system is better, but he has nothing but opinion to back that up, zero facts, zero hard evidence. Where's the stats?

How do you argue against this evidence from the OP link?:

Almost everything else in this thread has been " i think/he said/she said" anecdotal evidence. I'll add to this: I can confirm Shady's observation that I've also known people who have put their kids in the Catholic system because it has "a better environment", but that doesn't mean the Catholic educational curriculum is necessarily superior. I've heard that, at least in the city I grew up, Catholic schools can be a safer environment for kids, at least partly because there is often less of a mix of culture/religion/race amongst the students that can be divisive. ie: You won't get a Jew and a Palestinian fighting in the schoolyard at a Catholic school LOL. I'd like to see some stats on this.

The problem is that those performance stats are not worth much unless you break down the demographics. A lot of people enter alternative schooling because their parents have a special interest in their childrens education. These schools have completely different sets of students and parents than public school.

[Signals.Cpl]

I don't accept "I've also known" arguments". Post some facts based on actual educational research or don't bother posting,

The same applies to you... actually just stop posting since you seem to be divorced from reality.

[Topaz]

You know not ALL boards are the same and since I'm in Ontario, I can tell you that is a fact. I also know for a fact that back when my kids went to school in the'70-80's, they had friends in the Catholic system and their friends being in the same grade did do better and the students in the Catholic school system were ahead of the public schools. The only item I see different is the larger school boards, do offer more opportunities than smaller ones. So a person education in public school is depended on where one lives, not so much if its a Catholic or public school.

[GostHacked]

Maybe page 3 will offer some facts that page 2 is complaining about.

[jacee]

The problem is that those performance stats are not worth much unless you break down the demographics. A lot of people enter alternative schooling because their parents have a special interest in their childrens education. These schools have completely different sets of students and parents than public school.

Read the OP dre - scores were analyzed in the context of demographic data.

By the way, the rankings reported are adjusted for demographic factors, thus reflecting student achievement above what is predicted by family/community factors: Poorer kids can achieve beyond predictions, with good teaching.

Other considerations:

Catholic schools do exercise some selection in which students are admitted, and kept. They are Catholic, conformist, and free of serious learning/behavioural problems, by and large. The public system takes whoever lives in the neighbourhood, and then some.

It's true the funding is the same per student, but public schools have to stretch it further to address all students' needs, especially special needs.

Neighbourhoods near universities are unique, due largely to the presence of graduate students' families: Bright kids from bright parents of (temporarily) very restricted income - ie 'poor' kids achieving well.

A school near a music recording studio has a group of students who test well but behave ... erratically ('to the tune of a different drummer' )

Artist communities, immigrant communities, inner city poverty ... all may vary in achievement for reasons not captured in the analysis.

I wouldn't concede "superiority" ... It depends what you're looking for in a scbool for your child.

Is a school "superior" because they accept or retain fewer students with learning or behavioural issues?

Not in my world.

Edited September 25, 2012 by jacee

[MiddleClassCentrist]

It's obvious that the Catholic system is doing something right yet so many people who hate or want to disbanded the Catholic system refuse to admit that much.

Instead of bashing the Catholic system the Public system could learn a thing or two from the Catholic School boards. It's obvious they are superior.

Yeah, they expel or don't support the behavioural kids and send them to the public school.

They don't offer the same support as Public Schools for Special Education.

Get rid of the outliers and make yourself look better. Much like how private schools do it, just more subtly.

[MiddleClassCentrist]

I should also say that I believe that the Catholic School Boards get more funding per student than the public school boards. Is that true? Beats me, but according to this site for 2006/07 Public School boards in Ontario received $8264 per student. Doing the calculation from the numbers for school fundings for all boards I calculate $8637 per student at the Catholic boards. For a difference of $373 per student. I hope that I am wrong about that, so if anyone can provide better numbers, please do.

It's true. THe catholic boards keep over spending and building new schools where they aren't needed. The boards overrun their costs and it gets forgiven by the provincial government.

Meanwhile... there will be an old public school running half empty because parents like new, shiny buildings.

The Catholic System costs more than most people think...

[MiddleClassCentrist]

You know not ALL boards are the same and since I'm in Ontario, I can tell you that is a fact. I also know for a fact that back when my kids went to school in the'70-80's, they had friends in the Catholic system and their friends being in the same grade did do better and the students in the Catholic school system were ahead of the public schools. The only item I see different is the larger school boards, do offer more opportunities than smaller ones. So a person education in public school is depended on where one lives, not so much if its a Catholic or public school.

That's not entirely true.

Catholic schools screw High School students by not offering as many options, and actively hiring people who aren't qualified to teach speciality optional subjects(Construction, Computer Engineering, Business, Etc.) because high quality people aren't willing to take half a course load in the subject they love.

Catholics students get far fewer optional choices because of the required 4 religion credits. I'd wager that the Catholic board also graduates far fewer students in high demand technology (Engineering, Computer) fields simply because in the catholic system, to get the requirements for an engineering program you only have 2 optional credits over your entire 4 years. My local public high school teaches technology concepts in grade 9, that the Catholic School just starts to cover in Grade 11.

Edited September 26, 2012 by MiddleClassCentrist

[Guest Manny]

Cannot the Catholic school boards accept donations from the local community? Like in fundraising, etc.