More Than Just Teachers

[socialist]

Do you have any actual research to cite to support your position? I'd like to see the data. Children's confidence has to be authentic to have any value - false confidence just sets them up for a bigger disappointment later on.

I don't believe that giving someone a mark they have not earned does anything to increase their confidence. Instead, it contributes to their feeling like a fraud, and undermines the value of their educational experience. I failed a course in my first year of University, and had to take it again to fill the requirements for my degree. The second time around I got an A, and felt much more confident in my knowledge of the subject matter. I was also able to understand more advanced concepts in other courses. It is far better to give someone the opportunity to master the concepts, even if it means taking a course over again, than to have them go on to build new knowledge on a shaky base.

actually I support getting rid of grades all together. they are just numbers. standardized tests are WRONG. melanie, you seem like a nice person but you have very little understanding of what goes on and you have very little knowledge of worthwhile assessment practices. here's an article for you. it will enlighten you a little.

http://coopcatalyst.wordpress.com/2012/06/09/zero-no-zero-how-about-just-getting-rid-of-grades-altogether/

[gunrutz]

actually I support getting rid of grades all together. they are just numbers. standardized tests are WRONG. melanie, you seem like a nice person but you have very little understanding of what goes on and you have very little knowledge of worthwhile assessment practices. here's an article for you. it will enlighten you a little.

http://coopcatalyst.wordpress.com/2012/06/09/zero-no-zero-how-about-just-getting-rid-of-grades-altogether/

Yes it's enlightening that some left wing arts types believe that everything in our society is wrong and needs to be changed to suit their beliefs, it's terrbibly enlightening that you would also beleive this, your comments here would not have lead any of us to this conclusion. Terribly enlightening indeed. O yes, standardized tests are wrong, because they may show that someone isn't as smart as someone esle, and we can't have that, we can't allow any sort of seperation between people because we all need to be exactly the same. As soon as we are different we have inequalities, that isn't allowed, reality isn't allowed. It isn't social justicy enough.

[Guest American Woman]

Zeros crush the confidence of learners.

Anyone who puts zero effort into something should have their "confidence crushed" because zero effort in the real world gets people zero results. In other words, not giving them a zero for zero effort only gives them false confidence that they will survive in the real world.

research has proven that,

No it hasn't.

and educational experts agree,

Many teachers disagree, and have had students come back and tell them that university and jobs upon graduation from school was a shock that they were ill prepared for.

and that is why these beneficial no zero policies are in place. Talk to any educational expert and you will understand. until you do that you will continue to sound ignorant of the facts.

I've read the opinion of teachers, who have seen the results - and lack thereof - of such a program and who have received feed back from students who have gone school under the program.

If someone does zero work, they've earned a zero - and until they actually do the work, they deserve nothing more than the effort that they put into it - which is zero. If someone can do nothing and get something, why should anyone make the effort to do anything?

[socialist]

Yes it's enlightening that some left wing arts types believe that everything in our society is wrong and needs to be changed to suit their beliefs, it's terrbibly enlightening that you would also beleive this, your comments here would not have lead any of us to this conclusion. Terribly enlightening indeed. O yes, standardized tests are wrong, because they may show that someone isn't as smart as someone esle, and we can't have that, we can't allow any sort of seperation between people because we all need to be exactly the same. As soon as we are different we have inequalities, that isn't allowed, reality isn't allowed. It isn't social justicy enough.

Anyone in favour of standardized tests has no clue how learners learn. here, gunrutz, just for you, some facts on why standardized tests bring down the system and why they are , thankfully, on the way out for ever.

http://www.fairtest.org/facts/whatwron.htm

[Melanie_]

actually I support getting rid of grades all together. they are just numbers. standardized tests are WRONG. melanie, you seem like a nice person but you have very little understanding of what goes on and you have very little knowledge of worthwhile assessment practices. here's an article for you. it will enlighten you a little.

http://coopcatalyst.wordpress.com/2012/06/09/zero-no-zero-how-about-just-getting-rid-of-grades-altogether/

Your link is a blog, based on subjective opinion. Do you have any actual research that backs up your position? You have stated that research shows that giving zeroes crushes the confidence of students. I am waiting for empirical data. Blogs don't count.

Also, I am curious about the blog that you have posted here. The writer talks about giving students until the end of the term to hand everything in. What happens if they do not hand in assignments? Would he give them a zero?

[socialist]

Your link is a blog, based on subjective opinion. Do you have any actual research that backs up your position? You have stated that research shows that giving zeroes crushes the confidence of students. I am waiting for empirical data. Blogs don't count.

Also, I am curious about the blog that you have posted here. The writer talks about giving students until the end of the term to hand everything in. What happens if they do not hand in assignments? Would he give them a zero?

you only mark what is complete. failure is not an option.you cant penalize learners for incomplete work. you can only assess them on what they have done. it's called formative assessment. you want to learn about formative expert you read educational expert mr. ken o'connor. educate yourself before your next post. this site is GREAT.

http://www.oconnorgrading.com/

[socialist]

you only mark what is complete. failure is not an option.you cant penalize learners for incomplete work. you can only assess them on what they have done. it's called formative assessment. you want to learn about formative expert you read educational expert mr. ken o'connor. educate yourself before your next post. this site is GREAT.

http://www.oconnorgrading.com/

more expert analysis.

http://www.oconnorgrading.com/ask.php

[Smallc]

you only mark what is complete. failure is not an option.

You're right, it isn't an option. Sometimes, it's almost a certainty.

[August1991]

The banking industry has undergone tremendous change in the past few decades. (As Obama said, tellers have lost their jobs to ATMs.)

The print media is now also changing. We no longer read news on a printed page.

Few of us use payphones. Typewriters no longer exist.

Meanwhile, we still have a postman who brings us mail. And teachers in classrooms. Why?

------

The post office, and education, were deemed "government services" in the past. And once a government service, always a government service. (Well, not quite. Remember the Soviet Union.)

IMV, teachers are about to confront the change that bank tellers (and Soviet bureaucrats) faced several decades ago.

Edited September 24, 2012 by August1991

[Melanie_]

Socialist, I am still waiting for empirical research. This, again, is opinion.

Edited September 24, 2012 by Melanie_

[socialist]

The banking industry has undergone tremendous change in the past few decades. As Obama said, tellers have lost their jobs to ATMs.

The print media is now also changing. We no longer read news on a printed page.

Few of us use payphones. Typewriters no longer exist.

Meanwhile, we still have a postman who brings us mail. Why?

------

The post office, and education, were deemed "government services" in the past. And once a government service, always a government service. (Well, not quite. Remember the Soviet Union.)

IMV, teachers are about to confront the change that bank tellers (and Soviet bureaucrats) faced several decades ago.

not gonna happen.

[socialist]

Socialist, I am still waiting for empirical research. This, again, is opinion.

ken o' connor is an expert. you are not. his work is highly regarded among educators. read up.

[Melanie_]

ken o' connor is an expert. you are not. his work is highly regarded among educators. read up.

Then provide some data. There is no data in his website, it is solely based on his opinion. Where is his research? Where are the links to empirical evidence? Anyone can come up with a position on a topic, and if they are clever they can market their position to gullible people willing to pay to hear them speak. But unless there is statistical evidence, he is an expert in bullshitting. Show me the data.

[August1991]

not gonna happen.

It will happen.

The "education industry" will face modern technology in the next decade or so.

[madmax]

The banking industry has undergone tremendous change in the past few decades. (As Obama said, tellers have lost their jobs to ATMs.)

The print media is now also changing. We no longer read news on a printed page.

Few of us use payphones. Typewriters no longer exist.

Meanwhile, we still have a postman who brings us mail. And teachers in classrooms. Why?

------

The post office, and education, were deemed "government services" in the past. And once a government service, always a government service. (Well, not quite. Remember the Soviet Union.)

IMV, teachers are about to confront the change that bank tellers (and Soviet bureaucrats) faced several decades ago.

LMAO... I got excited to see how you were going to tackle this thread when I saw your handle appear. I always expect something different and interesting (For the same reason I miss MDANCER).

So I was surprised by the content of this post.

I had a teacher in my home over the summer working on a project together, and I will be danged if he didn't say something very similar to what you have stated.

Especially when he went on to where he saw the direction education was taking and the vast advancements in technology.

The direction the Universities, Colleges are going (rapidly changing) and the idea of teachers in the classroom may be as common as a landline, video store, or even cable TV, as the curriculum changes to internet driven agenda.

Edited September 24, 2012 by madmax

[Michael Hardner]

It will happen.

The "education industry" will face modern technology in the next decade or so.

They predicted this in the 1960s, with television. Public television was even referred to as 'educational television'. They ended up being used as an aid, and never came close to supplanting the role of the human. Certain services can't be replaced by technology, until the friendly robot thing comes to pass.

[westguy]

ken o' connor is an expert. you are not. his work is highly regarded among educators. read up.

I wonder how the rest of us mortals regard his work

[westguy]

Failure is absolutely an option at the post secondary level. If you don't do the work, you don't get the mark, or the credit. And it costs you $$$ to take the course again. Teachers who blindly pass students in elementary and secondary school are not doing them any favours.

Many school boards distribute funds according to how many of their students pass. Therefore my conclusion is that teachers may pass students to get the funding and NOT becuz the student deserved it.

[westguy]

lots of jobs have stress true, I've spent a lifetime in construction and we have our share of insane client, boss stress, sub-contractor stress, deadline stress, employee stress, anything that can go wrong at the worst possible time will stress...but none that compared to the combination of parent/child stress when I coached, it's the worst kind of stress and coaching isn't any different than teaching only the subject matter differs...

so your position is that surgeons and other doctors are not stressed, dentists have no stress, engineers are not stressed, I guess they have no stress???

[socialist]

I wonder how the rest of us mortals regard his work

why don't you read and educate yourself. ken o'connor is having a major influence on educational ministries across canada. you probably won't understand his writings though.

[socialist]

I wonder how the rest of us mortals regard his work

why don't you read and educate yourself. ken o'connor is having a major influence on educational ministries across canada. you probably won't understand his writings though.

[Jiblethead]

It is true, teachers need to wear many hats to be successful. Teaching is a very stressful job, not only because of all the bratty students with their i phones etc. but because of the scrutiny they face from the public.

[socialist]

It is true, teachers need to wear many hats to be successful. Teaching is a very stressful job, not only because of all the bratty students with their i phones etc. but because of the scrutiny they face from the public.

Very true. But you are wrong about the Iphones. Innovative teachers now allow them to be used as tools in the classroom. It keeps the learners happy and Iphones help in the learning process

Edited September 29, 2012 by socialist

[Jiblethead]

Very true. But you are wrong about the Iphones. Innovative teachers now allow them to be used as tools in the classroom. It keeps the learners happy and Iphones help in the learning process

im sure that teachers have taken many steps to adapt to new technology. But do you really think every student with an i phone isnt going to go surfing the web rather than pay attention in class sometimes?