Political Correctness Gone Amuck

[betsy]

I guess the schoolboard's associating these names that describe a people, such as Pakistani.....to the derogatory names people have come up with to insult another, such as "Frogs" for Frenchmen.

Edited September 15, 2012 by betsy

[wyly]

They're making up supposed offensiveness where there is none!

So now, a Pakistani will indeed think there is something insulting when he is described as a Pakistani!

"Pakistani" also doubles as a derogatory term for all brown skinned people from south asia...just as "chinamen" doesn't describe people from china but is meant as a slur applied to all orientals including Filipinos...

[wyly]

Wonder why you'd find it okay to be called a "white-man?"

What's the difference between the two colors?

Some white-man see their skin color as the color of superiority!

if I were to call myself a whiteman(which I don't)it could imply superiority which is an insult to all others...for a native canadian to use it the context in which is likely being used is most likely a disdainful one or a veiled insult...or they can be even more blunt and call me "whittie" and leave no doubt I'm being insulted...

If you find yourself just as equal to a North American Indian, either you'd find nothing derogatory when he is referred to as a red-man, or you'll find it's derogatory to be referred to as a white-man!

The Indian has now considered being described by the color of their skin (like the Blacks) to be derogatory since they've been "programmed" to think that way!

they weren't programmed, "red man" when used by white americans( I've never heard a canadian use the term)is an insult, it is used as belittling term for native americans, even if the person using it do so without meaning to offend...

context, what is implied and how it's perceived by the recipient are all factors...

Changing the names how to describe them is not the answer. Those names will change again....

What they need is to have their pride restored to them! Pride in who they are! Their color! Their heritage!

right, lets drag out the misconceptions and insults for another generation or two or three, why bother teaching children respect at a young age before discrimination imbeds itself...or maybe we should be proactive because after many centuries disrespect for others different from ourselves is still being passed on from parent to child... Edited September 15, 2012 by wyly

[cybercoma]

But it gets so ridiculous!

It's not ridiculous.

They can't leave well enough alone....

It's not well enough for the people that feel like they're being excluded from their school community.

it's hard to keep up with all these changes....

It's really not that hard.

which are so darn petty!

They're not petty.

And so "twilight zone-ques!"

A tad dramatic there betsy. Saying "police officer" instead of "police man"... is that really so out of this world?

Like Shakey said, there's so many much worse problems, and I agree!

Yeah, so? Do we ignore all the lesser problems until we solve the worse ones?

That's why I'm complaining! There's so many worse problems that they can waste taxpayers' money on!

Maybe they're getting too much funding that's why they can squander like drunken sailors.

Question: How much did this cost taxpayers?

If you can't understand the purpose of this and you don't know how much it costs, maybe you should stop complaining.

[cybercoma]

They're making up supposed offensiveness where there is none!

How would you know? You can't imagine someone feeling excluded by using this kind of language, so all just made up offence?

How many women are going to make it their goal to be police officers if they're constantly referred to as "police men"? It becomes a male job because it's referred to as a male position. This kind of language is exclusionary.

[cybercoma]

My point is that there's nothing wrong or derogatory with being decribed as a "Pakistani" or "Chinese."

There if you were born in Canada and you don't identify yourself with those countries. It might make you feel like a second-class citizen, never just Canadian.

[cybercoma]

I guess the schoolboard's associating these names that describe a people, such as Pakistani.....to the derogatory names people have come up with to insult another, such as "Frogs" for Frenchmen.

The report is about inclusiveness, not necessarily derogatory or insulting names.

[BubberMiley]

In my neighbourhood when I was a kid, filipinos were "pakis." When I tried to clarify that they were not at all like pakistanis, the reply was inevitably "same sh*t, different pile." Therefore, decked-out Trans Ams and Camaros were "paki'd up."

Those who made the distinction called filipinos "cutters" (because they often worked as such in sewing factories) and, of course, "flips."

I don't hear any of that kind of language anymore since people became all PC. But then again, I run in different circles now.

[Canuckistani]

My point is that there's nothing wrong or derogatory with being decribed as a "Pakistani" or "Chinese."

I don't think anybody has said that, have they? What gets ridiculous is a 4th generation Canadian being called Chinese because that's his heritage. He's Canadian, not Chinese Canadian, not Chinese. This sort of crap is perpetrated by both the bigots and the pc crowd - identity politics.

[wyly]

I don't think anybody has said that, have they? What gets ridiculous is a 4th generation Canadian being called Chinese because that's his heritage. He's Canadian, not Chinese Canadian, not Chinese. This sort of crap is perpetrated by both the bigots and the pc crowd - identity politics.

it's an individual perception and we need to respect that however they see their identity...mrs wyly is canadian born and sees herself as that but she also identifies as chinese, a person's ethnicty doesn't disappear regardless what your passport says...just don't call her a "chinaman"...others may only see themselves as only canadians, it's an individual choice.... Edited September 16, 2012 by wyly

[betsy]

I don't think anybody has said that, have they? What gets ridiculous is a 4th generation Canadian being called Chinese because that's his heritage. He's Canadian, not Chinese Canadian, not Chinese. This sort of crap is perpetrated by both the bigots and the pc crowd - identity politics.

That's the implication, otherwise why do they want a Pakistani to be called, "someone who came from Pakistan," instead of simply describing him as a Pakistani?

[betsy]

"Pakistani" also doubles as a derogatory term for all brown skinned people from south asia...just as "chinamen" doesn't describe people from china but is meant as a slur applied to all orientals including Filipinos...

I thought, "Paki" is the derogatory term. Pakistani is the name of a people from Pakistan......don't they - people from Pakistan - call themselves Pakistani?

Anyway, here's some info:

Paki·stani (-stn, -stän) adj. & n.

Word History: Many central and south Asian states and regions end with the element -stan, such as Afghanistan, Pakistan, Baluchistan, Kurdistan, and Turkistan. This -stan is formed from the Iranian root *st-, "to stand, stay," and means "place (where one stays), home, country." Iranian peoples have been the principal inhabitants of the geographical region occupied by these states for over a thousand years. The names are compounds of -stan and the name of the people living there. Pakistan is a bit of an exception; its name was coined in 1933 using the suffix -istan from Baluchistan preceded by the initial letters of Punjab, Afghanistan, and Kashmir. · Interestingly, a word almost identical in form, etymology, and meaning to the Iranian suffix -stan is found in Polish, which has a word stan meaning "state" (in the senses of both polity and condition). It can be found in the Polish name for the "United States of America," Stany Zjednoczone Ameryki (literally "States United of America").

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Pakistani

[betsy]

The guidelines suggest different ways of describing certain groups of people. Rather than describing someone as Asian, Korean, or from any other country, the guidelines suggest saying “a person from Asia,” or “a person from Korea.”

Anyway, if the schoolbord really wants to be anal about this, what about foreigners who moved and became residents and citizens of countries - how do they address them?

As an example, a Chinese who resides in the Philippines - you describe him as "someone from the Philippines" since being a resident of the Philippines, he comes from the Philippines! Then this Chinese comes visiting Canada....well, technically he comes from the Philippines. Then he got mugged....he's all over the news. So what's the correct way to describe him?

What if it's a white son of an American missionary who'd been born and raised, and living in the Philippines? So he comes visiting Durham. Technically, he comes from the Philippines!

Korean or Pakistani describes a "native" of that country!

Not only are they creating an alleged offense where there is none, they're also making things too convoluted! And instead of simply writing one word that gives an accurate description - now you've got to write 4 words....and that doesn't give an accurate description to boot!

I mean, this is madness!

Edited September 16, 2012 by betsy

[Guest Manny]

No doubt they will now have to form a committee, and have administrative meetings whenever someone from another country visits Durham. And that, "Men and Women" (and not to make anyone feel excluded, those who are gender-uncertain) is called "job security"...

[cybercoma]

That's the implication, otherwise why do they want a Pakistani to be called, "someone who came from Pakistan," instead of simply describing him as a Pakistani?

When describing someone as Pakistani, how do you know they came from Pakistan? Is it not that person's business whether they share that information with others or not? And if the person looks like he has Pakistani heritage, how do you even know he comes from Pakistan? He could be second, third, or fourth generation Canadian.

[betsy]

When describing someone as Pakistani, how do you know they came from Pakistan?

Well it depends on the information you want to give. If you're describing the race of the person (his ethnicity) then you say, "Pakistani." If you're describing a person's prior whereabouts - no matter what race - then you say, "he came from Pakistan."

Is it not that person's business whether they share that information with others or not? And if the person looks like he has Pakistani heritage, how do you even know he comes from Pakistan? He could be second, third, or fourth generation Canadian.

Ask Durham schoolboard. They're the ones who came up with this nonsense. Stirring up the pot when they didn't need to. I guess too much time on their hands.....or too much funding. Better slash that funding.

Edited September 17, 2012 by betsy

[Mr.Canada]

This is all the doing of white people who feel guilty for being born white and somehow privileged. This is called "white guilt". These people think they are rescuing the poor non white who is somehow being marginalized. This just isn't the case it's a perceived slight but isn't really there. They are hurting the non white instead of helping them. I would hazard a guess that the non white wasn't even asked if these terms are actually offensive or not.

[Guest Manny]

It's because newer municipalities are built entirely on the corporate model, from the get-go. Places that go back further were at one time based on a more socialist model, as crown corporations. the commonwealth. However they too are migrating to corporatism, only more slowly.

[BubberMiley]

Language that is cumbersome, vague or goofy never catches on anyway. The common lexicon is never really dictated from above, whether they try to or not.

Edited September 19, 2012 by BubberMiley

[waldo]

Hi there people who live in and are allowed to vote in Canada (Canadians)- it's not proper to call ourselves, Canadians anymore - the schoolboard of Durham had issued this new language guidelines.

Don't you think enough is enough already? Time for psychological assessment on all those who sit on this schoolboard. In fact, on ALL schoolboards across Canada!

Our money shouldn't be squandered to pander to such lunacy!

I am an Asian. There is nothing shameful or derogatory or inferior about my color and heritage!

clearly, in your most over-the-top reaction... you don't understand distinctions between the biological concept of race, the cultural concept of ethnicity and a citizen's condition/status.

I expect in that you state you are "Asian", you identify your ethno-cultural status as Asian - yes? And if you are a citizen of Canada... you are a Canadian citizen. Now, of course, some people define their ethno-cultural status as "Canadian" (about 1/3 of all Canadians per StatsCan)... again, given you state you are "Asian", I trust you are not one of that same group StatsCan advises as identifying its ethnic origin as "Canadian" - yes?

perhaps you can clarify: what do you claim as your 'ethno-cultural' status... Asian or Canadian?

You asked about my ethnicity. I'm a Filipina. I do not call myself as "someone who was born and lived in the Philippines!" That's how we're known.....Filipinos. My ancestors have been called that! Passed from past to present. What's derogatory about that?

in your confusion, you repeatedly and mistakenly portray the language guideline policy as drawing "derogatory" reference/implication. You quite liberally mix the terms race, heritage and ethnicity... shifting context as easily, and conveniently, as you shift between declaring yourself as Asian... as Filipina.

you referring to your ethnicity as Filipina meets your personal criteria/definition. Given the Philippines significant mix of peoples from China, India, Indonesia, Malaysia, etc., do you similarly expect these peoples to so readily identify their ethnicity as Filipina? Their ethno-cultural status as Filipina? You know... ethno-cultural status... the specific identifier the Durham guideline was addressing - the guideline that's drawn your most over-the-top reaction.

[betsy]

This is all the doing of white people who feel guilty for being born white and somehow privileged. This is called "white guilt". These people think they are rescuing the poor non white who is somehow being marginalized. This just isn't the case it's a perceived slight but isn't really there. They are hurting the non white instead of helping them. I would hazard a guess that the non white wasn't even asked if these terms are actually offensive or not.

Yes, you got that right. And the irony of it....this schoolboard is fostering division instead of unification!

Not to mention creating a very confused future generation with all these crazy things they come up with!

[betsy]

in your confusion, you repeatedly and mistakenly portray the language guideline policy as drawing "derogatory" reference/implication. You quite liberally mix the terms race, heritage and ethnicity... shifting context as easily, and conveniently, as you shift between declaring yourself as Asian... as Filipina.

Boy, I explained that I was responding to the particular statement issued in the article! Focus!

I know you've got your pre-supposed rebutt all set - but you've got to re-think that since obviously it's out of whack!

you referring to your ethnicity as Filipina meets your personal criteria/definition. Given the Philippines significant mix of peoples from China, India, Indonesia, Malaysia, etc., do you similarly expect these peoples to so readily identify their ethnicity as Filipina? Their ethno-cultural status as Filipina? You know... ethno-cultural status... the specific identifier the Durham guideline was addressing - the guideline that's drawn your most over-the-top reaction.

Isn't that the reason I'm getting at??? Didn't I just explain exactly that? Complete with example????

Didn't I illustrate - depending on usage - the difference between being called a "Pakistani" and someone "who came from Pakistan?"

Go back and read again!

Edited September 19, 2012 by betsy

[waldo]

Boy, I explained that I was responding to the particular statement issued in the article! Focus! I know you've got your pre-supposed rebutt all set - but you've got to re-think that since obviously it's out of whack!

Isn't that the reason I'm getting at??? Didn't I just explain exactly that? Complete with example????

Didn't I illustrate - depending on usage - the difference between being called a "Pakistani" and someone "who came from Pakistan?"

Go back and read again!

your understanding is severely flawed; as I stated you continue to confuse race and ethnicity... as you did in your latest post (as follows). You now presume to rationalize your confusion while at the same time continuing to demean the Durham guideline (calling it nonsense). You were right about one thing: the Durham guideline, in particular the one you've tripped over, is usage dependent. Unfortunately for you, you don't understand race versus ethnicity (or the 'ethno-cultural' reference in the Durham guideline), your usage is incorrect and the dependency you presume on is one you apply in a self-serving and improper manner.

Well it depends on the information you want to give. If you're describing the race of the person (his ethnicity) then you say, "Pakistani." If you're describing a person's prior whereabouts - no matter what race - then you say, "he came from Pakistan."

Ask Durham schoolboard. They're the ones who came up with this nonsense. Stirring up the pot when they didn't need to. I guess too much time on their hands.....or too much funding. Better slash that funding.

[Shady]

"Pakistani" also doubles as a derogatory term for all brown skinned people from south asia...just as "chinamen" doesn't describe people from china but is meant as a slur applied to all orientals including Filipinos...

Huh? I guess you have to be a bigot to know that stuff.

[Wilber]

Got a problem with a few of these. I don't see anything wrong with chairman or chairwoman. police man or police woman if it is an accurate description of what they are. Nothing against chairperson or police officer either.

Workforce and Man Hours. There's a brain twister, they don't even refer to the same thing.

I always thought using the term ladies or gentlemen was a mark of respect. Excuse me men and women, it's time to go. Yuk. Or should it be women and men?

Person from Asia, Person from Korea. Give me a break. A person from Asia is an Asian. A person from Korea is a Korean, a person from Canada is Canadian and a person from Germany is German. There may be some dispute over the definition but spare me the "person from" idiocy.

Interestingly, the current PC term for someone who's ethnic origin was the sub continent is South Asian. Go figure.