Organic Food not better for you

GostHacked · September 10, 2012

And your missing the liberty link products from their competitors.

All I have to say is wow, a test plot like the umpteen test plots in western Canada.

Farmers can still choose to grow the old fashioned methods, but why haven't they?

Because they get paid to plant these types of crops. it's subsidized to a point as well.

You are screwing with things on the genetic level. That can and does screw with us on the genetic level, because our bodies know the difference between natural corn and GMO corn (as an example)

These plants are all Round Up Ready, meaning they are all genetically manipulated to not be affected by the pesticide, however the pesticide still makes it into the GMOs and then into us.

As pointed out before, bio-accumulation. You think this shit just goes away? You might want to really look into what it is you are really growing.

blueblood · September 10, 2012

Because they get paid to plant these types of crops. it's subsidized to a point as well.

You are screwing with things on the genetic level. That can and does screw with us on the genetic level, because our bodies know the difference between natural corn and GMO corn (as an example)

These plants are all Round Up Ready, meaning they are all genetically manipulated to not be affected by the pesticide, however the pesticide still makes it into the GMOs and then into us.

As pointed out before, bio-accumulation. You think this shit just goes away? You might want to really look into what it is you are really growing.

Noo, you may get incentive to grow tge cutting edge experimental stuff for a year, but other than that you get the same price as the oher stuff.

Nexera has a premium on it because it's one of the healthiest veg oils money can buy and demand is high.

Second line is nonsense, nobody is getting sick and there's no change except for yield improvement and herbicide tolerance. Corn is still digested and made up of starch and protein.

The pesticides are washed off during the rain. How many people are getting sick over the last 20+ years again. I've looked into it, these products make me the most money and provide exceptional health benefits, not to mention feed people and put fuel in gas tanks.

You really need to do more research in the ag industry other than the one side from greenpeace and anti-corporation types. They have big dollars spent putting out their message as well.

The_Squid · September 10, 2012

The pesticides are washed off during the rain.

Where do they go?

Wild Bill · September 10, 2012

Where do they go?

They probably break down over a few weeks or months!

This isn't 1947, you know!

GostHacked · September 10, 2012

They probably break down over a few weeks or months!

This isn't 1947, you know!

:blink: :huh:

The_Squid · September 11, 2012

"pesticides probably break down after a few weeks". That whole "bioaccumulation" thing is a hoax apparently!LOL

The_Squid · September 11, 2012

Runoff from areas treated with pesticides can pollute streams, ponds, lakes, and wells. Pesticide residues in surface water can harm plants and animals and contaminate groundwater. Water contamination can affect livestock and crops downstream

http://www.agf.gov.bc.ca/pesticides/c_2.htm

GostHacked · September 11, 2012

http://www.agf.gov.bc.ca/pesticides/c_2.htm

Here is something for you. I found the PDF for these products.

https://www.dekalb.ca/Eastern/en-CA/Documents/SeedResourceGuide.pdf

Page 6 is of interest. It lists the types of pesticides used for these new strains of GMO corn. One pesticide is called Clothianidin. These new strains are immune or resistant to these pesticides.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clothianidin

Clothianidin is an insecticide developed by Takeda Chemical Industries and Bayer AG. Similar to thiamethoxam and imidacloprid, it is a neonicotinoid. Neonicotinoids are a class of insecticides that are chemically similar to nicotine, which has been used as a pesticide since the late 1700s. Clothianidin and other neonicotinoids act on the central nervous system of insects as an agonist of acetylcholine, the neurotransmitter that stimulates nAChR, targeting the same receptor site (AChR) and activating post-synaptic acetylcholine receptors but not inhibiting AChE.
The advantage of clothianidin and other neonicotinoids over nicotine is that they are less likely to break down in the environment.

Clothianidin is an alternative to organophosphate, carbamate, and pyrethroid pesticides. It poses lower risks to mammals, including humans, when compared to organophosphates and carbamates. It has helped prevent insect pests build up resistance to organophosphate and pyrethroid pesticides.[1][2][3]

So pesticides might break down some, but what do they break down in and what are the effects of those items on humans.

carepov · September 11, 2012

I just picked up: "Confessions of a Greenpeace Dropout: The Making of a Sensible Environmentalist" by Patrick Moore. So far, it looks like an excellent book and I highly recommend it. Here's a pertinent quote.

"In the 1990's, the Cancer Research Institutes of the U.S. and Canada collaborated on a multi-year study of all scientific publications about the connection between cancer in humans and pesticide residues on food. They could not find a single piece of evidence connecting the two." p273

I have not found much about bioaccumulation but: "during this time [between application and harvest] the pesticide biodegrades so that there is an undetectably low or negligible level of pesticide on the food." p274

Then he writes about DDT and what a previous poster alluded to earlier, very interesting that "in 2004, under great pressure from humanitarians and scientists, both Greenpeace and the WWF made statements that they now agreed DDT should be used to control malaria." DDT does biaccumulate and should only be used sparingly when there are no better alternatives.

Then he explains Genetic Engineering (including the fact that a common benefit is the reduction in pesticide use). The highlight is the debate over Golden Rice and his berating of groups opposing it. Does anyone here oppose Golden Rice?

GostHacked · September 11, 2012

I just picked up: "Confessions of a Greenpeace Dropout: The Making of a Sensible Environmentalist" by Patrick Moore. So far, it looks like an excellent book and I highly recommend it. Here's a pertinent quote.

"In the 1990's, the Cancer Research Institutes of the U.S. and Canada collaborated on a multi-year study of all scientific publications about the connection between cancer in humans and pesticide residues on food. They could not find a single piece of evidence connecting the two." p273

I have not found much about bioaccumulation but: "during this time [between application and harvest] the pesticide biodegrades so that there is an undetectably low or negligible level of pesticide on the food." p274

Then he writes about DDT and what a previous poster alluded to earlier, very interesting that "in 2004, under great pressure from humanitarians and scientists, both Greenpeace and the WWF made statements that they now agreed DDT should be used to control malaria." DDT does biaccumulate and should only be used sparingly when there are no better alternatives.

Then he explains Genetic Engineering (including the fact that a common benefit is the reduction in pesticide use). The highlight is the debate over Golden Rice and his berating of groups opposing it. Does anyone here oppose Golden Rice?

You might be interested to read and or watch 'The World According to Monsanto'

http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/the-world-according-to-monsanto/

carepov · September 11, 2012

You might be interested to read and or watch 'The World According to Monsanto'

http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/the-world-according-to-monsanto/

I will put it on my list, but I am sceptical, as I asked earlier:

Companies patent and sell GM seeds and farmers choose if they want to buy them or not. What’s the big deal?

GostHacked · September 11, 2012

I will put it on my list, but I am sceptical, as I asked earlier:

Companies patent and sell GM seeds and farmers choose if they want to buy them or not. What’s the big deal?

What choice?

Topaz · September 12, 2012

I saw a program on this topic the other day and it was said the difference between organic and other, is the pesticides that not on the organic food and they don't use hormones to fatten up their animals. Also, the expert said in the last 50 years the wheat has been changing and now people are getting fatter because there's more gluten in the wheat, which also increases the number of people being allergy to wheat. So in my view, that's why diabetes is on the increase, the processed foods are making people fat and sick. Give hormones to animals to fatten them up for market and then humans turn around eat the meat and the hormones and they too will fatten up and not even concerning the possibility of cancer in some people.

carepov · September 12, 2012

What choice?

GM seeds or non-GM seeds.

GostHacked · September 12, 2012

GM seeds or non-GM seeds.

What choice? Farmers are being forced into the GMO seeds. Farming is now corporate farming. Very few independent farmers are left. So with that, you have corporate seed producers going to corporate farms.

Choice may only be for the small independent farms that are quickly fading away.

carepov · September 12, 2012

I saw a program on this topic the other day and it was said the difference between organic and other, is the pesticides that not on the organic food and they don't use hormones to fatten up their animals. Also, the expert said in the last 50 years the wheat has been changing and now people are getting fatter because there's more gluten in the wheat, which also increases the number of people being allergy to wheat. So in my view, that's why diabetes is on the increase, the processed foods are making people fat and sick. Give hormones to animals to fatten them up for market and then humans turn around eat the meat and the hormones and they too will fatten up and not even concerning the possibility of cancer in some people.

Did you know that "organic" farming includes an Allowed Substances list including pesticides and pharmaceuticals?

Yes we should all be eating more fresh fruit and vegetables. If people want to spend (waste) their money on “organic” that’s fine, but we should not be scaring away people from buying perfectly safe and equally nutritious fruit and vegetables. Also, we should do all we can to ensure produce is as affordable as possible.

carepov · September 12, 2012

What choice? Farmers are being forced into the GMO seeds.

At gun point? I don't get it.

Farming is now corporate farming. Very few independent farmers are left. So with that, you have corporate seed producers going to corporate farms.

Choice may only be for the small independent farms that are quickly fading away.

So I will modify my question:

Companies patent and sell GM seeds, farmers and farm corporations choose if they want to buy them or not. What’s the big deal?

Also, what is your position on Golden Rice? Should it be banned?

blueblood · September 14, 2012

What choice? Farmers are being forced into the GMO seeds. Farming is now corporate farming. Very few independent farmers are left. So with that, you have corporate seed producers going to corporate farms.

Choice may only be for the small independent farms that are quickly fading away.

There are lots of independent farms left. Many farms went to the corporate model because it makes sense. They're family run mini corporations with dad as the CEO and mom as the vice pres.

How are producers being forced? With better performing plants?

You should really take a look at how the ag industry operates before making assumptions based on a biased film such as according to monsanto. Heck I'd wager most of mo Santos sales reps are farm kids.

There's no smoke and mirrors in the ag industry, always been big and little players.

rizy · September 20, 2012

Non-organic foods are "within allowable safety limits" - what a joke, an apple that is sprayed 15 times before you can buy it in the store, that's their allowable limit. Not surprisingly I was talking to a farmer north of Toronto and for the general market he's farming veggies the pesticide way, but for himself and he's family he's got a separate piece of land where he farms very differently.

carepov · September 20, 2012

Non-organic foods are "within allowable safety limits" - what a joke, an apple that is sprayed 15 times before you can buy it in the store, that's their allowable limit. Not surprisingly I was talking to a farmer north of Toronto and for the general market he's farming veggies the pesticide way, but for himself and he's family he's got a separate piece of land where he farms very differently.

Would you mind being a little more specific about what you perceive the problem to be or what exactly you are worried about?

GostHacked · September 20, 2012

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acR-DX8CBSw&feature=g-all-lik

Wild Bill · September 21, 2012

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acR-DX8CBSw&feature=g-all-lik

GhostHacked, that was the biggest waste of 7 minutes and 26 seconds of my life! Both the interviewer and the guest made a valley girl like Moon Unit Zappa sound like Albert Einstein.

She was spouting unscientific crap! Her group's study was about as scientific as astrology!

I'm no fan of Monsanto. I happen to consider them one of the worst examples of despot corporation practices. Still, this woman was using a study where they not only fed rats GMO grain but grain with pesticides AND gave them water laced with pesticides!

It reminded me of a study long ago purporting to prove aspertame, the sweetener substitute, was dangerous. They injected a lifetime's amount of aspertame in one shot under the rat's skin. Not surprisingly, there was a large lump!

Just an example of crafting an experiment to try to prove what you started off believing in the first place.

GH, I never trusted Monsanto but after seeing this clip, I don't trust those against GMO foods either. If they would pull a stunt like this then they are as bad as their adversary!

Boneheads!

carepov · September 21, 2012

GhostHacked, that was the biggest waste of 7 minutes and 26 seconds of my life! ...Boneheads!

Thank you Wild Bill for saving 7 minutes of my life!

GostHacked · September 21, 2012

Alright then ....

http://www.vancouversun.com/technology/corn+linked+early+death+study/7277237/story.html

Health Canada said Thursday it will take action if its review of a new study that found Canadian-grown genetically modified corn is linked to elevated risks of cancer, organ damage and premature death in rats "demonstrate a risk" to Canadians.
The first GM food safety study to test the entire lifespan of laboratory rats, newly published in the peer-reviewed scientific journal Food and Chemical Toxicology, also found health impacts for rats exposed to Monsanto's herbicide Roundup, the widest selling herbicide in the world.

The French study, while challenged by some experts, is being taken seriously by the French government. On Thursday, it ordered an urgent review of the study assessing the safety of GM corn and said it will work for a Europe-wide ban of imports of the crop if the findings were found to be conclusive.

This is a breakdown of the experiment. Looks like Monsanto was involved in the testing.

http://www.biolsci.org/v05p0706.htm

2.1. Experimental design
The three animal feeding studies were conducted in two different laboratories and at two different dates; at Monsanto (Missouri, USA) for NK 603 and MON 810 (June 7, 2000) and at Covance Laboratories Inc. (Virginia, USA) for MON 863 (March 14, 2001) on behalf of Monsanto.

http://digitaljournal.com/article/326208

Monsanto and the EPA swore that the genetically engineered corn would only harm insects. They stated that the Bt-toxin produced inside the plant would be completely destroyed in the human digestive system. They said it would not have any impact on the health of consumers.
Unfortunately they have been proven wrong, because not only is Bt corn producing resistant "superpests", researchers have also found that the Bt-toxin can badly affect human health.

In 2011, doctors at Sherbrooke University Hospital in Quebec found Bt-toxin in the blood of:

- 93 percent of pregnant women tested

- 80 percent of umbilical blood in their babies, and

- 67 percent of non-pregnant women

Wild Bill · September 21, 2012

Alright then ....

http://www.vancouversun.com/technology/corn+linked+early+death+study/7277237/story.html

This is a breakdown of the experiment. Looks like Monsanto was involved in the testing.

http://www.biolsci.org/v05p0706.htm

http://digitaljournal.com/article/326208

You might have posted this first. It's too late now. It looks like you are pulling just whatever you can find. Whether or not it is truly scientific is just the luck of the draw.

There are many different types of GM food plants. Yet the anti-GM movement seems to class them all the same. This in itself is ridiculous.

From what I have seen, the real worry seems to be not the plants but the pesticide. The gene-alteration allows a farmer to kill all weeds with Roundup while the crop grows up through it all with no effect. Where is a study on a particular GM food plant where Roundup was NOT used? Any true study has to be specific if it is the plant or the pesticide and most important which specific plant. An apple is not corn.

You're just wasting our time. Credibility is gone. Monsanto makes fraudulent claims out of greed and its opponents will rig opposing "scientific" studies, believing the end justifies the means because they have already decided they are right.

A lot of people are hungry in this world. A pox on both their houses!