TheNewTeddy Posted September 3, 2012 Report Share Posted September 3, 2012 I used to live in Atlantic Canada. The reason it is poor is (written from an Atlantic prospective) A - They took all our wood to build the British Navy B - They took all our fish to feed Canada C - They colonized the first places they saw - Atlantic Canada is god awful for farming D - They cut the chunks too small (provinces) E - They steal our best and brightest F - They all want to come here to retire (and use our govt services) G - They expect all our stuff (Fish, Wood, etc) to be cheap H - They enact policies that are good for other areas before us I - They try to pay us off with govt dollars in ways that don't work J - They say "no" when we ask to switch to govt dollars that will work K - They. (Part of the problem is us and our attitude towards "Them") Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacee Posted September 4, 2012 Report Share Posted September 4, 2012 at the risk of repeating the obvious, Alberta is contributing more $$ by 7.4b$/yr than it is receiving back from the Feds. Altho the numbers have changed over the years , the concept remains the same. To those who say that Alberta received equalization payments in the 30's, while that may/may not be true, Alberta and the rest of the west were required to pay heavy tariffs to support Ontario manufacturing as well, so Alberta and the west were paying out while/if they were receiving equalization payments. Where do you think the $5b comes from to subsidize Quebec??- Alberta taxpayers and business and other provinces is where. I dont see Quebec sharing their Hydro Quebec receipts with the ROC. Ask yourself how our economy would be doing without Alberta in the last few years. You know west guy, if you represent the mainstream Alberta opinion, I hope Alberta leaves Canada. The people of Quebec, the Mari times and Ontario are much nicer and we stick together and don't dump on each other. It's called being Canadian. Try it sometime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westguy Posted September 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 4, 2012 You will have to point out where I said that. I do think many fisherman fish for half the year then go to Alberta and work your oil fields and go to your province to grow it. Adding to your GDP. That labour helps you and your province Stop pretending it doesn't. EI is there for those who path into it. I am sorry you don't like that but that HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH EQUALIZATION and because you think they are the samehing you are uninformed and a hazard to this country and Alberta I am surprised that you consider me a hazard becuz I feel that some of our population prefer to coast on the dole rather than be self-sufficient Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westguy Posted September 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 4, 2012 You know west guy, if you represent the mainstream Alberta opinion, I hope Alberta leaves Canada. The people of Quebec, the Mari times and Ontario are much nicer and we stick together and don't dump on each other. It's called being Canadian. Try it sometime. Alberta is sustaining our standard of living and Canada would be in a depresion if not for Alberta. Having said that - I have felt that Alberta would be better off if it left Canada. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westguy Posted September 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 4, 2012 As usual westguy, it's not that simple! Those fisherman don't refuse to take jobs. There ARE no jobs! I believe the maritime economy has been deliberately set up to keep workers on the dole for generations now! It's the old "company store" scam! Very little of the government money poured into the Maritimes has resulted in sustainable, long term business. Rather, what happens is that grant money will fund a startup that lasts for a couple of years, goes under when the grant money ends and another startup is funded. The market does not determine the nature of new businesses - the government does! We all know how great a record government has for picking winners. Often, a successful business will find that the government has suddenly decided to give grant money to create a competitor! You are forced out of business and then afterwards that competitor follows, when its grant money runs out. So the average Maritime worker is forced into a succession of part-time and short term jobs. If he plays the game he can get by but there's one caveat - he has to keep voting for parties that will continue the grant money! That sticks in the craw of many down East but they don't have a lot of choice. It's hard to act on pride when you have to feed your kids. It's easy to say just move out west but that's a hard thing for a Maritimer. Many do and have done so, of course. Still, they could be in Alberta for 30 years and yet will still refer to Nova Scotia or New Brunswick as "Down Home". Alberta is where they found they HAD to live, not where they WANTED to live! To them, it was like emigrating to another country. If you know any "downhomers" in Alberta you know I am right! If you stop and think about it, someone born and raised in sight of the Rockies would have a hard time leaving to work in the Maritimes, if the shoe was on the other foot. It's easy for a westerner to say "Just move out here!" Doesn't bother you none! Alberta is YOUR home! To you it's the best place to be! Would it be so strange to find that people in other parts of Canada feel the same way about where they live? You may or may/not be correct. However, it seems to me that the maritimes AND Quebec have had 100yr+ to create their economy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyly Posted September 4, 2012 Report Share Posted September 4, 2012 It's easy to say just move out west but that's a hard thing for a Maritimer. Many do and have done so, of course. Still, they could be in Alberta for 30 years and yet will still refer to Nova Scotia or New Brunswick as "Down Home". Alberta is where they found they HAD to live, not where they WANTED to live! To them, it was like emigrating to another country. I moved to alberta a dozen years ago and I have no emotional attachment to it, it'll never be "home" home is always remains where you grew up but moving home is no longer an option because the home you left is no longer there, it changes...If you know any "downhomers" in Alberta you know I am right! If you stop and think about it, someone born and raised in sight of the Rockies would have a hard time leaving to work in the Maritimes, if the shoe was on the other foot.Would it be so strange to find that people in other parts of Canada feel the same way about where they live? agreed moving is scary thing, leaving your support groups family and friends, familiar surroundings it's not an easy thing to do...It's easy for a westerner to say "Just move out here!" Doesn't bother you none! Alberta is YOUR home! To you it's the best place to be! it was easier for me because my entire family moved with me, where my family lives becomes home...if I had to leave my family behind I don't know if I could have done it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyly Posted September 4, 2012 Report Share Posted September 4, 2012 Alberta is sustaining our standard of living and Canada would be in a depresion if not for Alberta. Having said that - I have felt that Alberta would be better off if it left Canada. you can't give alberta credit for winning the geological lottery, if not for oil it would be a have not province with a quarter of the population it has now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PIK Posted September 4, 2012 Report Share Posted September 4, 2012 Alberta is sustaining our standard of living and Canada would be in a depresion if not for Alberta. Having said that - I have felt that Alberta would be better off if it left Canada. And at one time alberta was poor and the rest of canada did not dump on her. And lets remember who built up alberta to what it is today, the scum from the east because the alberta could not do it on it's own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacee Posted September 4, 2012 Report Share Posted September 4, 2012 Alberta is sustaining our standard of living and Canada would be in a depresion if not for Alberta. Having said that - I have felt that Alberta would be better off if it left Canada. As I said, if you represent mainstream Alberta opinion, we'll manage without you. But good luck getting your oil to market without us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted September 4, 2012 Report Share Posted September 4, 2012 Alberta is sustaining our standard of living and Canada would be in a depresion if not for Alberta. Having said that - I have felt that Alberta would be better off if it left Canada. Almost every province in Canada increases its GDP every year. You're a moron if you believe the above. Alberta brings up the average, for sure, but every province in Canada is pretty healthy by world standards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tilter Posted September 4, 2012 Report Share Posted September 4, 2012 I used to live in Atlantic Canada. The reason it is poor is (written from an Atlantic prospective) A - They took all our wood to build the British Navy B - They took all our fish to feed Canada C - They colonized the first places they saw - Atlantic Canada is god awful for farming D - They cut the chunks too small (provinces) E - They steal our best and brightest F - They all want to come here to retire (and use our govt services) G - They expect all our stuff (Fish, Wood, etc) to be cheap H - They enact policies that are good for other areas before us I - They try to pay us off with govt dollars in ways that don't work J - They say "no" when we ask to switch to govt dollars that will work K - They. (Part of the problem is us and our attitude towards "Them") B - They took all our fish to feed Canada If you are referring to the rest of the world when you say "THEY" and "CANADA" you would be right. Atlantic Canada has traditionally supported the Liberal party, the same party that allowed the ROTW ( rest of the world) drain a fish population that the explorers describe as being "thick enuf to walk on" Blame them, not the Albertans, the people who would rather eat locally caught freshwater fish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Bill Posted September 4, 2012 Report Share Posted September 4, 2012 You may or may/not be correct. However, it seems to me that the maritimes AND Quebec have had 100yr+ to create their economy Actually westguy, they did! Several times, in fact! They just got caught every time by change. They were THE port of entry for people and goods into Canada for nearly a century. Then they build and opened the St. Laurence Seaway. That switched things to Quebec. Halifax has made a modest recovery by investing in the most modern container shipping facilities but things are nowhere near what they used to be. They also were very strong with coal mining but of course, the eco-movement killed that off. No need to talk about fishing! They were and still are great spots for naval bases but our governments scaled those back too. New Brunswick has had some success with telecommunications, setting up call centres. Not a lot left for them to try, westguy! Have YOU any suggestions? They have not been sitting on their collective asses. There are just so many things appropriate to their situation. If the oil ran out in Alberta tomorrow, I'm sure Albertans would work hard to develop new revenue strains too but is it guaranteed there would be lots of them? If there were not, would it be fair to blame Albertans? We have to be realistic here! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunrutz Posted September 5, 2012 Report Share Posted September 5, 2012 Alberta is sustaining our standard of living and Canada would be in a depresion if not for Alberta. Having said that - I have felt that Alberta would be better off if it left Canada. Canada would be in a recession except for the oil that happens to be on the Alberta side of an arbitrary line drawn on a map. Your fooling yourself if you think that Albertans have anything to do with it, in fact a lot of those hard working oil field people come from the east. I could say that Albertans are too busy jacking up their trucks, doing crack, and basically being stupid to provide enough workers for the job market, but that would be as stupid as calling easterners lazy, neither is true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted September 5, 2012 Report Share Posted September 5, 2012 Canada would be in a recession except for the oil that happens to be on the Alberta side of an arbitrary line drawn on a map. Your fooling yourself if you think that Albertans have anything to do with it, in fact a lot of those hard working oil field people come from the east. I could say that Albertans are too busy jacking up their trucks, doing crack, and basically being stupid to provide enough workers for the job market, but that would be as stupid as calling easterners lazy, neither is true. In case you haven't noticed, Alberta is Canada and so is every other province and territory. Canada doesn't need to thank Alberta. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueblood Posted September 5, 2012 Report Share Posted September 5, 2012 In case you haven't noticed, Alberta is Canada and so is every other province and territory. Canada doesn't need to thank Alberta. Actually they should for properly developing the resource that put the old saying "when the USA sneezes, Canada catches a cold" to bed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted September 5, 2012 Report Share Posted September 5, 2012 Actually they should for properly developing the resource that put the old saying "when the USA sneezes, Canada catches a cold" to bed. Alberta isn't the only province that did well following the recession. Canada did well because of a strong domestic market in all provinces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guyser Posted September 5, 2012 Report Share Posted September 5, 2012 The TTC earns 71% of it's revenue from the farebox (currently among the lowest fares in the GTA) and GO Transit, over 82%. Govt should put more dollars in transit, agreed. And on Taxes: Toronto ranked first with the highest taxes paid at $3,912, followed by Brampton at $3,826. Ottawa was third at $3,532; Hamilton and London were fifth and sixth at $3,305 and $3,078 respectively. St. John’s Newfoundland deserves credit for taking last place with the lowest average tax at $1,540, and Surrey, BC was second last at $1,814" Taxes are too low in TO. Indisputable. We pay the highest because of the value of the properties, the mill rate is stupidly low. A good part of why TO's transit is in such disarray is due to low taxation. DO I want to pay more? Not really, but I realize we all should, but the caveat is we also elect mental midgets , fat mental midgets at that who have no idea what they are doing and giving them the keys to the Brinks truck is a recipe for disaster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guyser Posted September 5, 2012 Report Share Posted September 5, 2012 Almost every province in Canada increases its GDP every year. You're a moron if you believe the above. Alberta brings up the average, for sure, but every province in Canada is pretty healthy by world standards. Shhh...dont forget we need to bow down to Albertans, they are making money and have short term memmories! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueblood Posted September 5, 2012 Report Share Posted September 5, 2012 Alberta isn't the only province that did well following the recession. Canada did well because of a strong domestic market in all provinces. No it's because of our friends out west named Asia inflating the price of our commodities we export. Our consumers going on a debt driven shopping spree isn't a good thing and it's a good thing the Tories put a lid on that. Shouldn't have lowered the rates in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted September 5, 2012 Report Share Posted September 5, 2012 (edited) No it's because of our friends out west named Asia inflating the price of our commodities we export. Our consumers going on a debt driven shopping spree isn't a good thing and it's a good thing the Tories put a lid on that. Shouldn't have lowered the rates in the first place. Are you kidding? Our economy is 2/3 domestic. We're an exporting nation, but that's only part of the story. Canada has a strong domestic economy that would have hit the bottom without low interest rates. Edited September 5, 2012 by Smallc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueblood Posted September 5, 2012 Report Share Posted September 5, 2012 Are you kidding? Our economy is 2/3 domestic. We're an exporting nation, but that's only part of the story. Canada has a strong domestic economy that would have hit the bottom without low interest rates. No it would not. Having debt levels similar to the Americans prior to 2008 is not a good place to be in. Spending money one doesn't have is not a good idea. The low interest rates are the markets way of kicking the can down the road. At least if the interest rates are screwed with by govt, the govt put regulations to prevent a hard landing. Had the rates not been touched, we wouldn't have to do all that. How is having 2 million dollar houses in Vancouver that cost 200,000 in eastern Canada a good thing. If you think Canadians swimming in debt is good for the economy, I suggest you take a look at our friends down south. It eventually comes back to haunt you. Had it not been for oil, ag, and energy exports, we would have been in the same house of cards as the USA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted September 5, 2012 Report Share Posted September 5, 2012 No it would not. Having debt levels similar to the Americans prior to 2008 is not a good place to be in. It's a different kind of debt - mostly mortgage related. Debt growth is now slowing. That doesn't change the fact that our economy is mostly domestic. I don't like debt at all, but, without the lower interest rates during the hard times, things would have been bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueblood Posted September 5, 2012 Report Share Posted September 5, 2012 It's a different kind of debt - mostly mortgage related. Debt growth is now slowing. That doesn't change the fact that our economy is mostly domestic. I don't like debt at all, but, without the lower interest rates during the hard times, things would have been bad. Not necessarily. Our debt would be squared away and we would come out in a stronger financial situation. Call it drinking buckleys. Tastes bad but it works. All we have right now is more debt. The lower interest rates promoted consumption at a time when people should be saving. The Americans right now are slashing their personal debt even though interest rates there are trying to get them to consume. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted September 5, 2012 Report Share Posted September 5, 2012 Not necessarily. Our debt would be squared away and we would come out in a stronger financial situation. Call it drinking buckleys. In theory, using one way of thinking. I don't agree, and neither did Carney, a smarter man than both of us. Tastes bad but it works. All we have right now is more debt. The lower interest rates promoted consumption at a time when people should be saving. And now, our exports should start to pick up (at some point) and the domestic economy can pull back some what. The Americans right now are slashing their personal debt even though interest rates there are trying to get them to consume. Because they don't have any money. Almost 50M people are on food stamps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueblood Posted September 5, 2012 Report Share Posted September 5, 2012 In theory, using one way of thinking. I don't agree, and neither did Carney, a smarter man than both of us. And now, our exports should start to pick up (at some point) and the domestic economy can pull back some what. Because they don't have any money. Almost 50M people are on food stamps. I look at the 1920-21 recession that started initially worse than the great depression. Guess what the USA govt did? Nothing. Does any talking head talk about that recession? No, why? It was over with quickly. That line of thinking won a Nobel prize in economics. The domestic economy is now loaded with debt, and it needs to be paid, which will result in a healthy slowdown. The average debt in the USA is being slashed which is a good thing because it is providing more sound capital for smarter economic activity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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