So is this racism?

Boges · August 14, 2012

http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/08/13/soccer-league-bans-b-c-pre-teens-from-tournaments-because-team-is-too-diverse/

VANCOUVER — They are a diverse group of players, the lads from the B.C. Tigers summer soccer club. Some parents have dubbed the Surrey-based outfit “Team United Nations,” thanks to its ethnically mixed roster of pre-teen boys, who come from East Indian, Caucasian and African backgrounds.
No big surprise there. Surrey is one of the most multicultural cities in Canada, and the Tigers preach inclusion. Originally known as the Punjab Tigers, the club changed its name in 2009 to B.C. Tigers, “to allow for diversity and broadband [sic] its efforts to integrate [sic] into other communities,” according to a team website.

But the Tigers went too far, for some. The team of under-13-year-olds (U13) has been banned from official tournament play because its roster features too many kids who aren’t of East Indian descent.

Rules written by the Indo-Canadian Soccer Association — the organization that operates Surrey’s United Summer Soccer Association — say that U13 teams may have a maximum of four “imports” on their rosters. Anyone found violating this rule “shall be subject to appear before a disciplinary committee” and may be fined, according to the soccer association’s rulebook.

There certainly would be an uproar if an organization in a community of that's largely white set a limit on non-whites for any given organization.

I know Volleyball leagues I've played in set a minimum amount of women on a team but that's for equality of teams.

Perhaps this is just a coach that will do anything to win. But why would rules like this be written into the leage.

Michael Hardner · August 14, 2012

There is still some sort of allowable racism and gender discrimination in Canadian society. Some of it is stupid and shouldn't be paid attention to, and some of it is geared to the focus of the group's activity. Why would a non-Scot want to join a Scottish heritage club ? And why would you need to ban a non-Scot from entering anyway ?

Anyway, this is where we are with these things today.

wyly · August 14, 2012

There certainly would be an uproar if an organization in a community of that's largely white set a limit on non-whites for any given organization.

I know Volleyball leagues I've played in set a minimum amount of women on a team but that's for equality of teams.

Perhaps this is just a coach that will do anything to win. But why would rules like this be written into the league.

no doubt this is a independent league operating outside of the CSA, provincial or local soccer organizations control...

Canuckistani · August 14, 2012

If they don't take any money from the govt, it's their business if they want to exclude non-Indo-Canadians. If they get a cent of govt money, (including using govt facilities) that's a different matter, and should be stopped.

But good point - can you imagine the outcry if a white group did this? I wonder how this group feels about Hindus, since they are undoubtedly Indo-Canadian, but not Sikhs like these guys are. Or Muslims of Indian descent for that matter. Christians? Jains? Buddhists? Would they make them feel welcome?

guyser · August 14, 2012

There certainly would be an uproar if an organization in a community of that's largely white set a limit on non-whites for any given organization.

No their wouldnt, or at least there shouldnt. Been like this for eons , but people dont like to recall it.

East Indian can include white kids so....

By the way, did you protest the Catholic Hockey League when I couldnt play since I am not catholic?

How about the italian soccer league since I am not italian?

Damn, the same thing happened with the cricket league !

I tried to get into Curves, but they spotted the bulge in my ..........throat, its called an adams apple.

Should it be this way? Not so sure its anything to get upset about. But for sure, some will .

Michael Hardner · August 14, 2012

For the record, whether or not they get government money is immaterial as far as I can tell.

You can't create a business - public or private - that excludes people on the basis of race, at least not openly, and expect the HRC to look the other way.

Canuckistani · August 14, 2012

For the record, whether or not they get government money is immaterial as far as I can tell.

You can't create a business - public or private - that excludes people on the basis of race, at least not openly, and expect the HRC to look the other way.

This is a private club, and yes those can exclude on any basis they choose. But not if they get govt funding - in that case the govt should withdraw the funding.

But B.C.’s Human Rights Code allows for this sort of behaviour. According to the Code, a non-profit social organization can give “preference to members of [an] identifiable group or class of persons” if that organization “has as a primary purpose the promotion of the interests and welfare of an identifiable group or class of persons characterized by a physical or mental disability or by a common race, religion, age, sex, marital status, political belief, colour, ancestry or place of origin.”

Edited August 14, 2012 by Canuckistani

Moonlight Graham · August 14, 2012

By definition, it's obviously racist. They are discriminating against certain players based on their race, or ethnicity, or whatever you want to call it.

Whites couldn't disallow Indo-Canadians from their teams because it would cause an uproar, so the opposite shouldn't be allowed. Racial/ethnic segregation is not appealing to me, and this kind of multiculturalism is divisive. If you want to celebrate East Indian culture while limiting other groups, then go do so in East India, or do it privately in your own home. This is Canada. It would be nice if all Canadians embrace Canadian culture. But what is Canadian culture? Well, multiculturalism has eroded whatever is left of it to the point that Canadian culture is a culture of all cultures (aka multiculturalism), having little unique culture of its own. This destroys Canadian nationalism, and weakens this country.

How about these Indo-Canadian parents put their kids in soccer leagues where their children can play & mingle with Canadians of all races & ethnic backgrounds? What's wrong with this?

Edited August 14, 2012 by Moonlight Graham

Michael Hardner · August 14, 2012

This is a private club, and yes those can exclude on any basis they choose. But not if they get govt funding - in that case the govt should withdraw the funding.

I'm not sure that that is true. A Knights of Columbus hall was forced to rent their premises to a same-sex wedding wasn't it ?

Michael Hardner · August 14, 2012

How about these Indo-Canadian parents put their kids in soccer leagues where their children can play & mingle with Canadians of all races & ethnic backgrounds? What's wrong with this?

Who knows ? Is it that big of a deal ? Can we still have teams from certain towns or is that racist too ? I'm just asking here...

Moonlight Graham · August 14, 2012

Who knows ? Is it that big of a deal ? Can we still have teams from certain towns or is that racist too ? I'm just asking here...

How are teams from certain towns racist? Wouldn't that be townism? lol

Is this situation that big of a deal? Not really. But multiply the occurrence x1000 in many different contexts and it becomes a big deal with a major social impact on Canadian society.

The_Squid · August 14, 2012

I'm not sure that that is true. A Knights of Columbus hall was forced to rent their premises to a same-sex wedding wasn't it ?

If you are going to offer services to the public (they will rent out the space to the public normally), then they cannot discriminate. But they wouldn't have to take them as members.

That's different from a private club (i.e. a mens only clubs?) that doesn't deal with the public per se. Although I am not absolutely certain about this... and it is evolving....

The_Squid · August 14, 2012

There certainly would be an uproar if an organization in a community of that's largely white set a limit on non-whites for any given organization.

If this was an "Italian" league, you think non-Italians would be upset? Would it be racism?

Would this be a concern if they didn't wear turbans, their skin wasn't quite as brown and went by the name "Italians"? Is this faux outrage from some "whites" because it has the look of "reverse discrimination" (until you actually scratch below the surface)...

Michael Hardner · August 14, 2012

Is this situation that big of a deal? Not really. But multiply the occurrence x1000 in many different contexts and it becomes a big deal with a major social impact on Canadian society.

Most things that are not a big deal become one when multiplied by 1000X.

Some examples:

I sneezed this morning. Once.

A fly (one fly) landed on my arm.

I walked a mile to work.

I had a coffee.

Moonlight Graham · August 14, 2012

Most things that are not a big deal become one when multiplied by 1000X.

Some examples:

I sneezed this morning. Once.

A fly (one fly) landed on my arm.

I walked a mile to work.

I had a coffee.

The difference is that segregated cultural organizations exist all over Canada, ie: similar things to this Indo-Canadian soccer league, therefore greatly multiplying the effect of allowing things like this. Therefore, allowing things like this in Canada has a major affect on Canadian society, whether you think it good or bad.

So I agree that "most things that are not a big deal become one when multiplied by 1000X". But a thousand flies are likely not going to land on your arm any time soon. Thousands of private segregated cultural/racial organizations will exist depending on whether you allow them to exist, and this is a big deal.

The_Squid · August 14, 2012

Thousands of private segregated cultural/racial organizations will exist depending on whether you allow them to exist, and this is a big deal.

So a Swedish club or German club Is some sort of racial segregation and shouldn't be allowed? I don't see the big deal.....

WWWTT · August 14, 2012

This is a private club, and yes those can exclude on any basis they choose. But not if they get govt funding - in that case the govt should withdraw the funding.

Salvation Army.

Ask them about their opinion on gays and gay marriage.

Are donations to Sally Ann tax deductible?

WWWTT

WWWTT · August 15, 2012

To call this reverse discrimination is kind of foolish.

First off,when discrimination happens the act of, usually is meant to burden or deny a basic right to someone.

If I wanted to play soccer there are many clubs around that would have me.I would just have to find one that plays at my level(I do not play so my level would be the crappiest out there).And then pay the fee.

This league feels it is necessary do discriminate for their own reasons.I think it would be something to do with national heritage or something like that.So what,it's not like I want to be an Indian or Pakistanian.

Are the people here calling this discrimination actually want to play on their teams?Ya thought so.

WWWTT

Boges · August 15, 2012

Are the people here calling this discrimination actually want to play on their teams?Ya thought so.

WWWTT

Well yeah, that's why this is news. There was a team that had more than four "imports". Another coach called them on it and they were disqualified. Seems really silly.

Edited August 15, 2012 by Boges

The_Squid · August 15, 2012

Seems really silly.

How so? Is it racist? What if they were Italians?

cybercoma · August 15, 2012

Whites couldn't disallow Indo-Canadians from their teams because it would cause an uproar, so the opposite shouldn't be allowed.

You ignore the obvious disparity is social capital and power between those two groups in Canadian society. If you can understand that, then you can see that you've created a false equivalence. Edited August 15, 2012 by cybercoma

cybercoma · August 15, 2012

I don't see any problem with clubs for people from racial and ethnic minorities to meet others of their own background.

Boges · August 15, 2012

You ignore the obvious disparity is social capital and power between those two groups in Canadian society. If you can understand that, then you can see that you've created a false equivalence.

In this part of the country I doubt that disparity exists. It sounds like very multicultural place. And it wasn't just white people that were on this team, apparently black people were on it too.

Oh and basing a group on nationality is one thing but race is something completely different.

You can have a team of all Italians, but what if you're Italian and black? There was a Soccer player in the World Cup on the Italian team that was black. He had an Italian name but what black, I doubt anyone would say he doesn't deserve to be on that team because he's "not Italian enough"

Edited August 15, 2012 by Boges

The_Squid · August 15, 2012

In this part of the country I doubt that disparity exists. It sounds like very multicultural place. And it wasn't just white people that were on this team, apparently black people were on it too.

Oh and basing a group on nationality is one thing but race is something completely different.

You can have a team of all Italians, but what if you're Italian and black? There was a Soccer player in the World Cup on the Italian team that was black. He had an Italian name but what black, I doubt anyone would say he doesn't deserve to be on that team because he's "not Italian enough"

You are saying that they kicked off Punjabis (or Sikhs or whatever the league is) off the team because they were white, but they were of the same nationality as the other people on the team? Is that your contention? Really???

Boges · August 15, 2012

You are saying that they kicked off Punjabis (or Sikhs or whatever the league is) off the team because they were white, but they were of the same nationality as the other people on the team? Is that your contention? Really???

No but what I am saying is that comparing a league that limits the members based on race is far different from having a league or group that are meant for people of a certain nationality or religion.

It'd be interesting, though, if someone was born in India but was white, would they be treated the same way as a Canadian born person that was clearly South Asian.

Edited August 15, 2012 by Boges