Syrian Civil War

[Argus]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2415081/Britain-sent-poison-chemicals-Assad-Proof-UK-delivered-Sarin-agent-Syrian-regime.html

Sodium Fluoride would be classified as a dual purpose chemical. This is how Iraq was able to acquire their chemical stockpiles.

Sodium Fluoride is used in a lot of applications, not the least of which include fluoridating water, and in toothpaste. The problem I have with this assumption of guilt on the part of western companies and nations is the belief they should be acting as some sort of parental overseers of third world countries and what they can and cannot import 'because they might misuse it'. Are third world countries nation states, accorded the same rights as other nation states, or are they some sort of junior category child states which need their affairs overseen by more responsible (white) nations lest they get into trouble? If the latter, why do we let them vote at the UN and treat them like real countries?

[DogOnPorch]

Syria could also ask those UK companies for more of the chemicals. Any blowback for the UK corps that sold the stuff to Syria knowing the UK government approved the sales?

I already stated I was interested as to WHICH unnamed company apparently applied for an export permit to Syria. Fluoride isn't restricted...but, it could be used in the manufacture of certain precursors. I doubt any sales actually occurred...but the intent is noted. If you recall, Saddam bought his various precursor chemicals through various UAE holding companies...the largest being located in Singapore where the laws of the time allowed such sketchy business transactions.

[DogOnPorch]

Sodium Fluoride is used in a lot of applications, not the least of which include fluoridating water, and in toothpaste. The problem I have with this assumption of guilt on the part of western companies and nations is the belief they should be acting as some sort of parental overseers of third world countries and what they can and cannot import 'because they might misuse it'. Are third world countries nation states, accorded the same rights as other nation states, or are they some sort of junior category child states which need their affairs overseen by more responsible (white) nations lest they get into trouble? If the latter, why do we let them vote at the UN and treat them like real countries?

It's that soft bigotry of low expectations at work.

[GostHacked]

It's that soft bigotry of low expectations at work.

What exactly is 'soft bigotry' ?

[DogOnPorch]

What exactly is 'soft bigotry' ?

Really?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Gerson

[GostHacked]

Really?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Gerson

Ahh the same guy who coined , smoking gun/mushroom cloud and Axis of Evil. That's kind of funny.

[DogOnPorch]

Ahh the same guy who coined , smoking gun/mushroom cloud and Axis of Evil. That's kind of funny.

It means that we hold different cultures to a lesser standard than we expect of ourselves. It is indeed a form of bigotry. A continuation of the old "White Man's Burden" except applied to culture rather than race.

[Shady]

Ahh the same guy who coined , smoking gun/mushroom cloud and Axis of Evil. That's kind of funny.

And yet another strawman.

[DogOnPorch]

And yet another strawman.

Especially when it was Frum who coined 'Axis of Evil'. But, accuracy is optional in GH posts.

[GostHacked]

Especially when it was Frum who coined 'Axis of Evil'. But, accuracy is optional in GH posts.

Sure, and what is the point? You brought up the term and the dude who coined it, now explain what you mean by it?

And yet another strawman.

I was not trying to make an argument out of it.

[DogOnPorch]

Sure, and what is the point? You brought up the term and the dude who coined it, now explain what you mean by it?

It means that we hold different cultures to a lesser standard than we expect of ourselves. It is indeed a form of bigotry. A continuation of the old "White Man's Burden" except applied to culture rather than race.

Duh...or are you unfamiliar with that term, as well?

[Moonlight Graham]

Actually, Russia is presently brokering some kind of peace plan where Syria is apparently willing to put their chemical weapons under international control. I don't know if this plan is for real or just political maneuvering, but either way the possibility alone has probably sunk any remaining chance of congress approving missile strikes.

Fascinating and unexpected turn of events. Could save Obama and Assad a lot of headache. Hope it happens. People are right to be skeptical though, given the players involved.

[GostHacked]

Duh...or are you unfamiliar with that term, as well?

You seem a little more belligerent than usual today. Feeling ok?

[DogOnPorch]

Fascinating and unexpected turn of events. Could save Obama and Assad a lot of headache. Hope it happens. People are right to be skeptical though, given the players involved.

It's a little like being told to hand over your university education.

OK...here's my diploma...and my old text books. Anything else??

[Moonlight Graham]

It's a little like being told to hand over your university education.

Why?

[DogOnPorch]

Why?

Do you think Syrian chemists will suddenly forget how to make sarin?

[DogOnPorch]

Not likely...

[GostHacked]

I think I get it now. Once the inspections are done, Syria will dig out the stuff they buried that Iraq had sent them just before Iraq was invaded.

Swampland in Florida for sale.

[Moonlight Graham]

Do you think Syrian chemists will suddenly forget how to make sarin?

This isn't a permanent solution obviously, but there's a good chance this could help prevent any attacks by the Assad gov in the short or medium term, and hopefully by the time this civil war ends ( hopefully, as in this civil war doesn't last another 5 years). The goal of the Obama admin has never been to fully dismantle the chemical weapons capabilities of Syria. This option is much better for Obama and international security than Obama sending in a few missiles.

[DogOnPorch]

This isn't a permanent solution obviously, but there's a good chance this could help prevent any attacks by the Assad gov in the short or medium term, and hopefully by the time this civil war ends ( hopefully, as in this civil war doesn't last another 5 years). The goal of the Obama admin has never been to fully dismantle the chemical weapons capabilities of Syria. This option is much better for Obama and international security than Obama sending in a few missiles.

Frankly, I find the Obama administration to be very naive. It's almost like it wasn't fully briefed on the Middle East situation. If they were briefed...well...OMG...lol.

I think I get it now. Once the inspections are done, Syria will dig out the stuff they buried that Iraq had sent them just before Iraq was invaded.

Swampland in Florida for sale.

I recall you're denials that Syria had chemical weapons. You found out you were wrong. And you'll be wrong again about this situation come the next chemical weapon attack.

[dre]

It's a little like being told to hand over your university education.

Maybe, nobody is claiming its a perfect solution. The reality is that Obamas "limited strikes" would still have left Syria with the technology and knowledge to make Sarin, and it would also have left them with their stockpiles of deployable weapons, or at the very least most of them.

[DogOnPorch]

Maybe, nobody is claiming its a perfect solution. The reality is that Obamas "limited strikes" would still have left Syria with the technology and knowledge to make Sarin, and it would also have left them with their stockpiles of deployable weapons, or at the very least most of them.

Everyone will go 'whew' when Assad hands over a few precursors and then do nothing. A nerve gas attack still occurred and somebody will have gotten away with it.

Edited September 10, 2013 by DogOnPorch

[GostHacked]

I recall you're denials that Syria had chemical weapons. You found out you were wrong. And you'll be wrong again about this situation come the next chemical weapon attack.

You recall wrong then. We've gone through this. I have denied that the Syrian army under Assad used the chemical weapons. Never did I deny that they do not possess chemical weapons.

Everyone will go 'whew' when Assad hands over a few precursors and then do nothing. A nerve gas attack still occurred and somebody will have gotten away with it.

Someone did launch chemical weapons. Note : this is the 3rd time chemical weapons have been used. What makes this time important compared to the other two incidents? Both other times the findings were inconclusive.

Was it the Syrian army under Assad who used the chemical weapons?

Was it the FRA (sorry FSA) rebel al-queda and other mash of terror groups responsible for the chemical attack?

Edited September 10, 2013 by GostHacked

[dre]

Everyone will go 'whew' when Assad hands over a few precursors and then do nothing. A nerve gas attack still occurred and somebody will have gotten away with it.

They would have gotten away with it anyways. Nobody was going to support anything beyond a slap in the wrist because they are worried that Obamas Freedom Fighters...

http://www.cnn.com/video/?/video/world/2012/11/02/rebels-execute-syrian-soldiers.cnn&iref=allsearch

... might actually WIN!

[DogOnPorch]

They would have gotten away with it anyways. Nobody was going to support anything beyond a slap in the wrist because they are worried that Obamas Freedom Fighters...

http://www.cnn.com/video/?/video/world/2012/11/02/rebels-execute-syrian-soldiers.cnn&iref=allsearch

... might actually WIN!

And the next dictator will also get away with nerve gas...and perhaps an EMP weapon...or even a full blown thermonuclear weapon. Where's that 'red line' now?