Colorado Shooting during the Dark Knight Rises

[Guest American Woman]

If you don't see them as the same why do you raise Germany of 1933 as an example?

How long does it take a democracy to mature in your book? It's been over 200 years in your case and that excludes the evolution of the British system which gave rise to it. How long does it take. 400 years, 500, 600, a thousand. My guess is never if the NRA has its way.

Your last comment tells me all I need to know, and thus ends my discussion with you re: this matter.

Have a great day. (And God save the Queen. )

[Wilber]

Your last comment tells me all I need to know, and thus ends my discussion with you re: this matter.

Have a great day. (And God save the Queen. )

The truth hurts I see.

[Guest American Woman]

The truth hurts I see.

Yeah, that's it.

:lol:

[BubberMiley]

Speaking of which, if you believe people should have the right to keep arms in order to challenge a despotic government, do you believe the government should be allowed to limit the accumulation of those arms in any way?

Naturally, the only reason I asked this question is because I knew no one would want to answer it. That's because the premise that people should be allowed to arm themselves to challenge a potential despotic government is only tenable if the government has no say on the accumulation of those arms. What would be the point if that accumulation were under government control?

But in the real world, nobody other than the particularly nihistic want unrestricted arms accumulation. They're far too afraid of The Terrorists for that.

So they make their arguments, but do whatever it takes not to think them through. And if challenged, they are "done with the conversation."

Edited August 3, 2012 by BubberMiley

[j44]

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/27/us/before-gunfire-in-colorado-theater-hints-of-bad-news-about-james-holmes.html?_r=1&emc=na

AURORA, Colo. — The text message, sent to another graduate student in early July, was cryptic and worrisome. Had she heard of “dysphoric mania,” James Eagan Holmes wanted to know?

The psychiatric condition, a form of bipolar disorder, combines the frenetic energy of mania with the agitation, dark thoughts and in some cases paranoid delusions of major depression.

She messaged back, asking him if dysphoric mania could be managed with treatment. Mr. Holmes replied: “It was,” but added that she should stay away from him “because I am bad news.”

It was the last she heard from him.

About two weeks later, minutes into a special midnight screening of “The Dark Knight Rises” on July 20, Mr. Holmes, encased in armor, his hair tinted orange, a gas mask obscuring his face, stepped through the emergency exit of a sold-out movie theater here and opened fire. By the time it was over, there were 12 dead and 58 wounded.

Mr. Holmes, who was arrested outside the theater and has been charged in the shootings, has remained an enigma, his life and his motives cloaked by two court orders that have imposed a virtual blackout on information in the case.

Yet as time has passed, a clearer picture has begun to surface. Interviews with more than a dozen people who knew or had contact with Mr. Holmes in the months before the attack paint a disturbing portrait of a young man struggling with a severe mental illness who more than once hinted to others that he was losing his footing

[eyeball]

Yet as time has passed, a clearer picture has begun to surface. Interviews with more than a dozen people who knew or had contact with Mr. Holmes in the months before the attack paint a disturbing portrait of a young man struggling with a severe mental illness who more than once hinted to others that he was losing his footing.

Hindsight truly is amongst one of the more painful aspects of mental illness.

1 in 5 people, in a land that glorifies gun violence and in which there as many guns as there are people, will suffer a mental illness in their lives. Even the wilfully blind should have the capacity to perceive the blindingly obvious...that there's something at least a little disturbing about this picture.

[GostHacked]

About two weeks later, minutes into a special midnight screening of “The Dark Knight Rises” on July 20, Mr. Holmes, encased in armor, his hair tinted orange, a gas mask obscuring his face, stepped through the emergency exit of a sold-out movie theater here and opened fire. By the time it was over, there were 12 dead and 58 wounded.

How does one open an emergency exit from the outside? Note : There are no handles on the outside of those doors.

A - he was inside, left and propped the door open.

b - he was not alone, and someone else opened the door for him.

I've listened to a good deal of the released police tapes, and there was indications of another shooter.

[j44]

How does one open an emergency exit from the outside? Note : There are no handles on the outside of those doors.

A - he was inside, left and propped the door open.

b - he was not alone, and someone else opened the door for him.

I've listened to a good deal of the released police tapes, and there was indications of another shooter.

When he left to suit up he propped the door open with a rock.

It probably seemed like more than one shooter because he was armed to the teeth.

[GostHacked]

When he left to suit up he propped the door open with a rock.

It probably seemed like more than one shooter because he was armed to the teeth.

And you do know that some silent alarm to notify the staff of the theater than an emergency door has been opened.

How long would it take him to suit up? I would have gone kicked out the prop of the door if I had noticed it. Sitting in a dark theater with light (streetlights and other lighting in the back of the building) is very noticeable.

And it seems that there is little to no security footage released if there is in fact footage. You don't have a modern theater without all the modern surveillance equipment. Surprised we have not seen any yet. It only took a day for the video at the Empire State building to be released.

I mean a guy with bright orange hair would be easy to pick out when he came through the lobby right?

[j44]

And you do know that some silent alarm to notify the staff of the theater than an emergency door has been opened.

How long would it take him to suit up? I would have gone kicked out the prop of the door if I had noticed it. Sitting in a dark theater with light (streetlights and other lighting in the back of the building) is very noticeable.

And it seems that there is little to no security footage released if there is in fact footage. You don't have a modern theater without all the modern surveillance equipment. Surprised we have not seen any yet. It only took a day for the video at the Empire State building to be released.

I mean a guy with bright orange hair would be easy to pick out when he came through the lobby right?

Maybe there was no alarm on the door. Some theatres have side doors you can exit from. I did it last week after a movie.

How much light do you think there would be? The door could have been open an inch. Maybe the parking lot isn't lit up like a baseball stadium at night.

Why are you surprised they didn't release footage? Why would they?

I'm not sure I understand your last line. What would it matter if he was noticed in the lobby before the movie?

[GostHacked]

Maybe there was no alarm on the door. Some theatres have side doors you can exit from. I did it last week after a movie.

How much light do you think there would be? The door could have been open an inch. Maybe the parking lot isn't lit up like a baseball stadium at night.

Would be enough to notice. All theater exits are well lit and cameras are always present (well in large urban centers). The video would also catch Holmes gearing up to go back in. Since someone is always manning the station where the cameras are, this would have been noticed.

Hey who exited the theater? Hey who is that putting on the flack jacket, and getting guns out of his car .. Alarm would have tripped (silent alarm) and security would have picked that up, procedure is to start investigation where the alarm has been tripped and why.

Even if you just thought the movie was shit and decided to exit the theater someone would have taken notice of it.

Why are you surprised they didn't release footage? Why would they?

I'm not sure I understand your last line. What would it matter if he was noticed in the lobby before the movie?

For all these major incidents, there is always video to corroborate the what the police found. And this seems to be a high profile case in which the evidence should be slam dunk. But some key evidence seems to be simply missing.

[j44]

I think you are overestimating the amount of security and surveillance at a movie theatre.

And what are you getting at? Do you think there is some sort of conspiracy or cover up for

some reason?

[jbg]

I've listened to a good deal of the released police tapes, and there was indications of another shooter.

It probably seemed like more than one shooter because he was armed to the teeth.

These types of people are not known for working well with others.

[GostHacked]

I think you are overestimating the amount of security and surveillance at a movie theatre.

And what are you getting at? Do you think there is some sort of conspiracy or cover up for

some reason?

Go check out your local movie theater and tell me I am wrong. This was a large multiplex so security would have been quite present. Unless it is a small mom and pop outfit (which still have cameras) then you might be correct.

By the time you enter that specific theater, I would guess you would have been tagged by at least 5 cameras before you opened the door. Especially in this day and age security and surveillance are EVERYWHERE.

[j44]

Deleted. Posted it twice by mistake.

Edited August 27, 2012 by j44

[j44]

I still don't know hat you are getting at.

Even on busy Friday nightsI don't see any staff other than the high school kids that sell me tickets and popcorn. There are no security guards. I

Doubt there are even cameras near the emergency exits. And regardless of the hype

For a movie I would expect even less staff on duty for a midnight showing.

And even if there were security guards. What do you think they would do if they see someone carrying a

shotgun? I'm betting not confront him.

[CPCFTW]

It was all planned by the GOP and NRA to strengthen the case for the right to carry concealed weapons!!

You're arguing against the anti-establishment teenager mindset that permeates the left/occupy movement. Stop trying to use logic.

[j44]

It was all planned by the GOP and NRA to strengthen the case for the right to carry concealed weapons!!

You're arguing against the anti-establishment teenager mindset that permeates the left/occupy movement. Stop trying to use logic.

I was trying to get the reason behind the 'conspiracy' out of him.

[GostHacked]

I was trying to get the reason behind the 'conspiracy' out of him.

Just trying to find out about the evidence that would be caught by the security cameras. If there are cameras, and no footage, ... why?

[j44]

Just trying to find out about the evidence that would be caught by the security cameras. If there are cameras, and no footage, ... why?

You're just asking hypothetical questions. If this and this than why?

You can do that til the cows come home. What's the point?

[Guest American Woman]

From everything that I've read, the theater didn't have security cameras.

[GostHacked]

From everything that I've read, the theater didn't have security cameras.

Corner stores have multiple cameras. Of COURSE this facility would have security cameras. If not all over the theater at least looking over the cash counter.

In a day and age where cameras are everywhere, why would this multiplex not have a single security camera on the building?

[j44]

Corner stores have multiple cameras. Of COURSE this facility would have security cameras. If not all over the theater at least looking over the cash counter.

In a day and age where cameras are everywhere, why would this multiplex not have a single security camera on the building?

What are you talking about? What is your point?

Why does it matter if he Is on tape?

Even if he was why would they release it?

Why. Does. It. Matter?

[Guest American Woman]

Corner stores have multiple cameras. Of COURSE this facility would have security cameras. If not all over the theater at least looking over the cash counter.

In a day and age where cameras are everywhere, why would this multiplex not have a single security camera on the building?

What good would a security camera looking over the cash counter do if there were no security cameras at the fire exits?

Edited August 28, 2012 by American Woman

[dre]

Conspiracy/intent to commit treason!

Very much against the law and treason usually commands the most severe punishment!

Just another reason why the American constitution was not thought through very well.

WWWTT

Well the founding fathers never planned for the national government to have a large standing military. So maybe when the constitution was written citizens with small arms actually might have been some kind of firewall against government Tyranny. Obviously the idea seems rather silly now...

Edited August 28, 2012 by dre