Colorado Shooting during the Dark Knight Rises

[Guest Derek L]

my apologies all around... they not be comin fer yer guns... they be comin fer your lands!

Simply put, “they” can legislate any law “they” desire and take anything of mine (and yours) without compensation, coupled with no threat of legal recourse from the likes of you and I.

Does the Government serve you or you the Government?

[Guest American Woman]

You have no faith in the institutions that you yourselves have built to govern yourselves and maintain your own laws. I am not so cynical or paranoid.

That fact that you chose the words "cynical" and "paranoid" speaks of what you are - a naive, loyal subject - with no faith in your fellow citizens while having blind faith in your police, military, and government. One need only be realistic, knowledgeable of history, which you continually ignore, to understand that life, for the rest of eternity, doesn't always go the way you'd like it to.

Edited July 29, 2012 by American Woman

[waldo]

Simply put, “they” can legislate any law “they” desire and take anything of mine (and yours) without compensation, coupled with no threat of legal recourse from the likes of you and I.

Does the Government serve you or you the Government?

define your use of "property"... what is the "property" you are concerned about - specifically.

let's be clear so as not to allow you your preferred wiggle-worm that allows you to deflect/distract/derail: presuming on your yet to be clarified meaning of "property", is your fixation on guns one that expressly ties to your concern over, "expropriation without compensation", of said property? If yes, can you cite specific examples/instances relative to your concern over, "expropriation without compensation"... examples that have so incensed you to the point of extensive gun ownership... presumably... to fend off the (anticipated) expropriators!

[Guest Derek L]

traitorous rebel!

I’m rather surprised on your level of contention and or lack of interest towards Private Property rights in Canada contrasted with the United States…………Not only do our “shortcomings” in enshrined rights effect me gunz ’n land, but one can also contrast the lack of ability of a Canadian citizen (unlike an American) to privately launch a citizen suit against, for example, a large corporation causing damage to the Natural Environment, thus negatively effecting ones private property…………..Clearly the Canadian Environmental Protection Act of 1999 is a paper tiger due in part to our lack of property rights.

[Guest Derek L]

define your use of "property"... what is the "property" you are concerned about - specifically.

let's be clear so as not to allow you your preferred wiggle-worm that allows you to deflect/distract/derail: presuming on your yet to be clarified meaning of "property", is your fixation on guns one that expressly ties to your concern over, "expropriation without compensation", of said property? If yes, can you cite specific examples/instances relative to your concern over, "expropriation without compensation"... examples that have so incensed you to the point of extensive gun ownership... presumably... to fend off the (anticipated) expropriators!

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/property

prop·er·ty (prpr-t)

n. pl. prop·er·ties

1.

a. Something owned; a possession.

b. A piece of real estate: has a swimming pool on the property.

c. Something tangible or intangible to which its owner has legal title: properties such as copyrights and trademarks.

d. Possessions considered as a group.

2. The right of ownership; title.

3. An article, except costumes and scenery, that appears on the stage or on screen during a dramatic performance.

4.

a. A characteristic trait or peculiarity, especially one serving to define or describe its possessor.

b. A characteristic attribute possessed by all members of a class. See Synonyms at quality.

5. A special capability or power; a virtue: the chemical properties of a metal.

As to the example:

RCMP gun confiscations prompt legal fight

RCMP to seize more ‘scary-looking’ guns before registry dies

[waldo]

I’m rather surprised on your level of contention and or lack of interest towards Private Property rights in Canada contrasted with the United States…………Not only do our “shortcomings” in enshrined rights effect me gunz ’n land, but one can also contrast the lack of ability of a Canadian citizen (unlike an American) to privately launch a citizen suit against, for example, a large corporation causing damage to the Natural Environment, thus negatively effecting ones private property…………..Clearly the Canadian Environmental Protection Act of 1999 is a paper tiger due in part to our lack of property rights.

nice touch hitting the environmental button! In that very regard, having an entrenched right to property within the Charter raises concerns over the ability of provinces to control the use of privately owned lands... to protect the environment... to protect communities and the citizens within.

[waldo]

a. Something owned; a possession.

As to the example:

RCMP gun confiscations prompt legal fight

RCMP to seize more ‘scary-looking’ guns before registry dies

so... anything you own... anything! Not just yer gunz ’n land, hey?

using the purposeful reference to 'expropriation' should have been sufficient to steer you away from your perpetual focus on guns... and to provide/cite appropriate examples... beyond your gun fixation. Try again - thanks in advance.

[Guest Derek L]

nice touch hitting the environmental button! In that very regard, having an entrenched right to property within the Charter raises concerns over the ability of provinces to control the use of privately owned lands... to protect the environment... to protect communities and the citizens within.

But that’s the point Waldo…………..If citizen “X” owns a ranch next to a Tar Sands development in Alberta and feels said development is not only encroaching, but effecting his property (Say Livestock health) his only form of recourse is to demonstrate to the Government of Alberta or Canada that said development is breaking Environmental regulations………Wanna take a stab at how many real life, successful citizen suits, similar to my above example, there has be? The number comes before 1.

No Property Rights in Canada guarantees no Canadian Erin Brockovich

[Guest Derek L]

so... anything you own... anything! Not just yer gunz ’n land, hey?

using the purposeful reference to 'expropriation' should have been sufficient to steer you away from your perpetual focus on guns... and to provide/cite appropriate examples... beyond your gun fixation. Try again - thanks in advance.

Does expropriations of land, coupled to losses in both value of personal property and business along the Cambie corridor of the Canada Line Skytrain count?

[waldo]

Wanna take a stab at how many real life, successful citizen suits, similar to my above example, there has be? The number comes before 1.

I refuse to engage in another of your purposeful mind-numbing circle-jerks based on your intended vague choice of wording. Lay it out - precisely: i.e., in regards to a lack of entrenched personal property rights within the Charter, relative to environmental protections affecting personal health/property, relative to actionable recourse, you assert Canadian citizens... individually or in class action: _ _ _ _ _ _

[waldo]

Does expropriations of land, coupled to losses in both value of personal property and business along the Cambie corridor of the Canada Line Skytrain count?

the request was specifically to your expressed concern... "expropriation without compensation". Clearly the reason for your cited expropriation is clear; the need unarguable. Perhaps you question the value of compensation - yes? In your estimation, did the Cambie corridor land owners lack sufficient guns to either, 1- defeat expropriation attempts, or 2- gain sufficient compensatory value?

[WWWTT]

Anyone who thinks it couldn't make a difference is a fool. The Americans overturned the British government. Why are you so afraid to allow your citizens to have guns? Don't you trust them? - as you trust police officers and government officials completely?

What about the African Americans that were lynched by the KKK in southern states?

Did the right to bear arms help them or did it hurt them?

WWWTT

[Guest American Woman]

What about the African Americans that were lynched by the KKK in southern states?

Did the right to bear arms help them or did it hurt them?

Ultimately, the right to bear arms - along with the NRA - helped them.

[WWWTT]

Ultimately, the right to bear arms - along with the NRA - helped them.

Well then it would be a sad day in Canada if Canadians had to arm themselves to protect against roaming mobs.

WWWTT

[Guest American Woman]

Well then it would be a sad day in Canada if Canadians had to arm themselves to protect against roaming mobs.

The First Nations people have had many a sad day in Canada. (They are Canadians, right? )

Edited to add the obvious: Again. Things don't stay constant throughout history. I'm sure Canadians will experience more sad days throughout the history of the world.

Edited July 29, 2012 by American Woman

[Guest Derek L]

I refuse to engage in another of your purposeful mind-numbing circle-jerks based on your intended vague choice of wording. Lay it out - precisely: i.e., in regards to a lack of entrenched personal property rights within the Charter, relative to environmental protections affecting personal health/property, relative to actionable recourse, you assert Canadian citizens... individually or in class action: _ _ _ _ _ _

Vague choice of wording? That's exactly the point, we don’t have said enshrined rights to property, hence no requirement for judicial (vague) interpretation of what constitutes one’s own property………..Tis my point, I’d love it if Canadians shared the same dilemma faced by Americans when the “intended wording” associated with property rights is interpreted by all levels of Justices, in all levels of courts………It would be a refreshing “problem” for Canadians to have.

Edited July 29, 2012 by Derek L

[Guest Derek L]

the request was specifically to your expressed concern... "expropriation without compensation". Clearly the reason for your cited expropriation is clear; the need unarguable. Perhaps you question the value of compensation - yes? In your estimation, did the Cambie corridor land owners lack sufficient guns to either, 1- defeat expropriation attempts, or 2- gain sufficient compensatory value?

Said Cambie corridor land owners lacked the legal recourse to either defeat expropriation or gain sufficient monetary value…..Father Government knows best eh?

[Wilber]

Ultimately, the right to bear arms - along with the NRA - helped them.

Right, Black Americans outgunned the KKK. Seems to me a huge protest movement and Federal authorities had a lot more to do with them gaining their rights. You know, those agencies mandated to carry arms that can't be trusted.

[WWWTT]

The First Nations people have had many a sad day in Canada. (They are Canadians, right? )

Edited to add the obvious: Again. Things don't stay constant throughout history. I'm sure Canadians will experience more sad days throughout the history of the world.

Not as sad as the Natives fate suffered in the US.

And those poor people in Colorado.

WWWTT

[Wilber]

That fact that you chose the words "cynical" and "paranoid" speaks of what you are - a naive, loyal subject - with no faith in your fellow citizens while having blind faith in your police, military, and government. One need only be realistic, knowledgeable of history, which you continually ignore, to understand that life, for the rest of eternity, doesn't always go the way you'd like it to.

So not feeling the need to be armed makes me a naive loyal subject. Well so be it. Tell me, why is it that yours is about the only developed, democratic country on the planet where its citizens feel the need to be armed to protect themselves from their own government?

[Guest American Woman]

Not as sad as the Natives fate suffered in the US.

Really? And how do you figure that?

As a side note, if I had a dollar for every time a Canadian said some version of "not as bad as the U.S. blah blah blah" I'd have quite the collection of loonies. Seems to me your country can do whatever it wants and as long as y'all can convince yourselves "it's not as bad as the U.S. ...." you're ok with it. Pathetic.

[Guest American Woman]

So not feeling the need to be armed makes me a naive loyal subject. Well so be it. Tell me, why is it that yours is about the only developed, democratic country on the planet where its citizens feel the need to be armed to protect themselves from their own government?

We would feel that way no matter what country we lived in. Are you seriously unable to comprehend what I've been saying?? You simply dismiss incidents where the right to bear arms or where they have had arms have helped or would have further helped people who were being oppressed, just to keep repeating the same idea that nothing bad will ever happen in Canada for the rest of eternity. It's not about your "feelings," it's about history and reality and the fact that very few things stay as they are for eternity.

So I'll ask you - why is it that every other developed, democratic country on the planet fears allowing citizens the right to bear arms?

Edited July 29, 2012 by American Woman

[Guest American Woman]

Right, Black Americans outgunned the KKK. Seems to me a huge protest movement and Federal authorities had a lot more to do with them gaining their rights. You know, those agencies mandated to carry arms that can't be trusted.

The question was "did the right to bear arms help or hurt [them]." The reality is it helped them. Rather than addressing that, I see you chose to LOL about something I didn't say - most likely because the reality goes against your anti-right to bear arms stance.

[WWWTT]

Really? And how do you figure that?

Because well over 90% are dead

WWWTT

[WWWTT]

The question was "did the right to bear arms help or hurt [them]." The reality is it helped them.

Oh ya right.

The right to bear arms helped the African Americans establish the same rights given to whites.

WWWTT